[slessardjr]

Agreed, Reading everyones comments I can't say at one point I disagree. It would be nice if Apple offered such a mid-range tower for the average consumer, but they won't. Not when they can post profits like they have. Maybe it's me but I hear the word "mac" and "apple" being used in tech talk a lot more day to day. So with that said I think this open computer is going to open up a new market share to apple in an indirect way, based upon the success or failure of the open computer (this obviously ignoring Apple's possible lawsuit). Just my opinion but if I bought this machine and saw a comparable iMac or Mac Pro I would definitely drool over the look and feel of the hardware, not also to mention it would be supported and come with a warrantee. and maybe just drool enough to make the purchase to the real thing. So that being said it could either attract people to purchasing the authentic Mac experience, or could justify to the consumer to pinch a few pennies and get the cheaper alternative...only time will tell.
Besides we needed someway to get the world off that diseased ridden OS whose name i won't mention... ;)

[Davewrite]

I'm one of those who wish Apple/Jobs would produce a Midi Tower.
I've got two of those Pro Towers of various ages but I realize I hardly use up all the drive bays or pci slots etc.
Some other clues (besides the good ones given by the other posters) of why Steve Jobs doesn't produce a Tower :
1) Steve Hates Wires. In one of his presentations about 2 years ago he compared the ugly wires of a PC to his imac. Since the old days he has always preferred the all in one design. Seems like a dumb reason 'hating wires' and losing sales but you know Steve.
2) Steve isn't interested in Games, read all the comments from game developers over the years and Gamers are the primary people clamoring for a mid tower. But maybe with all the games shown in the iPhone SDK he's changing his mind?
Anyways Adding my Vote: Apple PLEASE BUILD A MID TOWER with UPGRADEABLE VIDEO.

[hillstones]

What a piece of junk. Well, they got what they paid for. The computer was in a box full of popcorn, not even wrapped in plastic! I love the description of popcorn jammed in the optical doors and the power cord twisted up in the fan! Nice!

No one will buy this poor attempt at a computer. No software updates (they make promises), no zapping of PRAM, and a host of other features not really supported. Have fun adding memory when you can't zap the PRAM.

If the "gamers" want a cheap mini-tower, just buy a cheap Windows box to play your PC games. Most games are played on a XBox 360 or PS3 connected to an HDTV, not a Mac or PC. The consoles are far more popular these days.

Apple won't make a mini-tower because the iMac is already very popular, and they aren't going to introduce anything to cripple the Mac Pro sales. I don't want a tower box and a separate monitor. Why would I want to spend more money with that combination when the iMac already has a superb 24" screen and plenty of power? As another already pointed out, MacBook/MacBook Pro sales outnumber the desktops already. People no longer want messy separate tower/display combinations.

Apple already had mini-towers...the Power Mac G3 and G4, those were mini-towers. The full size towers were the 6-slot Power Mac 9500's.

[HalanR]

I think you get what you pay for. No support, no external drive boot, no upgrades, no reliable backup mechanism... this will appeal to a very small group of people and I think after awhile they'll tire of it. After a few upgrades or software installs that go wrong and they have to completely reload their OS (no usable backup) and all the tweaks and hacks that go along with keeping this thing running, the novelty will wear thin.
Since they're obviously using cheaper parts, expect this to be no more reliable than any cheap PC that can be purchased anywhere.
How will they handle support? Will they be around to guide you through every version update? At what point do they charge for this service to keep it running?
I'm a network manager, but did my fair share of PC repair, support, building, hacking, etc, many years ago. While I'm sure it's acceptable for some folks, my time is more valuable these days and I need a reliable computer. I have an old Dell XPS for my occasional gaming fix since I can't see any other reason to use a PC and the Mac doesn't really have any good titles I like, so why try to make a Mac a gaming machine?
I don't think Apple needs to worry about these folks, I think they'll eventually self-destruct. This is their 15 minutes.
The Mac lineup is sensible. A pro tower machine, an intermediate for home/small business users, and an entry level Mini. We have all three at home for each purpose. If you try to get your product down to the lowest common denominator, then, well, that's what you get for a user base. I don't mean to sound smug about it, but I've seen the kind of users that cheap PCs attract.
One last thing, everyone talks about upgrading, and yes, I bought a Dual G5 tower almost four years ago to do the same thing. But, to be honest, other than install a second drive and more memory, I've done nothing to this computer. I found it has everything I need to get the job done.

[macwilf]

Could the reason for Appleʼs silence in regard to Psystar be caused by the fact that they are working on the mythical midrange tower which will put Psystar out of business? Just wondering...

[ajhoughton]

I've already blogged recently about hackintosh machines, and the same thoughts apply to Psystar's "Open Computer":
http://alastairs-place.net/2008/04/ihavea_hackin
Software does not always work on these things, because an "Open Computer" IS NOT A MAC. I know for a fact that our software has trouble with many of these non-Apple machines, and I resent having to waste my time trying to support people who often don't even admit that they're using them.
If you want a Mac, go buy a Mac. If you want a PC, buy a PC. What you shouldn't do is breach the license agreement for OS X by trying to shoehorn it onto a PC, and what you really shouldn't do having done that is to sell the result.
Psystar is apparently a company without ethics, and one that is prepared to ride roughshod over the license agreement for Mac OS X. This seems particularly silly given the reputation of Apple's legal department. I can't imagine that these people will be around for much longer, and I also don't see Apple sitting back and taking this kind of profiteering nonsense.
Finally let me say this: anyone who buys from Psystar is frankly kidding themselves if they think they've bought a cheap Mac. The likelihood is that OS X will be fixed so it won't run on these systems, Psystar will end up in court, its officers will be stung for damages, and you'll end up with a machine that you can only use as a plain old PC.

[DisabledTrucker]

There are many other reasons for having this "Open Computer" other than for playing games, people will also use it for server usages as well as others, especially those looking to use it for a media server in their homes. Since you can add more drives to it, and most likely configure it for RAID-5 in the motherboard, it will provide a nice cheap alternative to the only other option in Apple's line up, the Mac Pro, which is too expensive for most people. Granted Gamers will love it because you can exchange the video card and don't necessarily need extra drive space, for that a few minor tweaks to the iMac would be a nice alternative, (hot swap drive bays, upgradable graphics cards like Alienwares, and maybe double the ram slots.) Okay so double the RAM would also be better for those using it as a Media Tower as well.
None of Apple's current line-up is feasible for either of these options, not everyone needs a $3K server or can afford that much for gaming, when it's not even really made for a gaming platform, maybe for creating them but, not for actually playing them. Yes a lot of people use consoles to play games on, only because there's not any other real option out there. PC gaming may be dying but, Mac gaming hasn't even begun. If you think for second that gaming on a computer will be only limited to those flash games in the future, your out of your mind. The only reason those games are doing so well is because they can play them online at work, and most people playing those are women.
Many of todays games are created on the Macs, (at least to some point especially in the graphics and audio,) and ported to other platforms, which is why you see less and less on the PC. Give them better options and they will start to come to the Mac more, and primarily first since they don't have to do a lot of fancy recoding to get them to work.
There's really no reason for Apple not to release at least a configurable iMac, especially in their larger model, doing what I mentioned above in the 24" and adding a 30+" version to the mix as well. Though it still leaves little to be desired for small businesses but, a minor upgrade to the Mini could fix that as well, just by adding a hot swap bay for the hard drives, better graphics more comparable to the MBP's, and more memory to it as well as the Wireless "N" networking capabilities. Okay so it may increase it's size a tad, then again, the aTV which does less is larger.
Not everyone can afford the space of a separate unit for a TV and a Computer in their house nor do they have a separate "office" space for them, in fact most are hard pressed to have a space in their bedrooms for one or the other, and when given the choice, most choose the TV unless it's in the kids room. Since it make more ergonomic sense, and the iMacs also make a decent TV, which is a plus for Apple since it's big into media.
Since Apple doesn't want to go this route, I think it's a good thing that Psystar has given people, albeit a rather questionable one at best, another option to get the Mac OS experience in their homes by competing against the Mini. Okay so a wire on the one they got at Macworld's labs wasn't routed correctly, this is something that can be overlooked given the cost of the machine, as could the fact that it was in peanuts and not wrapped in plastic as well. Most won't like the fact that you can't just use Apple's built in updater nor that it's warranty isn't as good. Some also won't like the other small setbacks such as not being able to use a firewire drive to boot the system, (not many use firewire drives anyways with USB 2.0 being the most prominent in the markets,) and even some may not like that you can't reset the PRAM, though most hardly ever need to or even know how to, as they've never had a need for it and since there isn't one most likely in this system, it's probably no big deal to them anyways. There will still be some small businesses that will opt for this machine just because they CAN do things with it that can't be done with any other of Apples options and it's what they've been wanting for a long time now.
With the average cost of a computer at around $1500, (including mouse, monitor, and keyboard, outside of Apple's,) this computer will suit their needs as long as it doesn't have any major problems with it in the future. It provides them with the ability to route the system away from the monitor, provides for future upgrades, and allows them to reconfigure it for their needs, while not being too much outside of what they need. Most small businesses in particular don't have a specific need for 2 processors, (it's too much over kill,) 2 GB of memory for the time being is also nearly overkill for the most part but, they do have a major need to be able to add more drives to it, and not have wires running all over the place as well trying to find a way to hide/secure them. Something that they can't do with a iMac. Okay yeah you can do it to an extent with the Mini but, you still have a problem when you want to upgrade the drives in it or add more than one to it and the slowness of the wireless as well as the limited graphics capabilities are a big set back for them. Either way you go, you're going to have to have at least two wires running to the desktop, one for the power cord, the other for a monitor, (or in the case of the Apple's, extra drives.) That's if you can use wireless keyboards and mice, if not there's at least two more wires.
You'd be surprised at how many of those small businesses use the built in software RAID-5 of their computers to house their large databases on, and a separate drive array for backups, or even to house their backups on from their single or dual drives that they are running off of. This is something that only the Mac Pro can simulate but, is too costly for them. Until Apple can do this too, they aren't interested in purchasing an Apple but, they are interested in running their Mac operating system as well as other Mac specific software on their computers.
I hope this company does well enough that it wakes Steve and Apple up to the realization that something MUST change at Apple, and hopefully that change is that Apple themselves offer a similar solution or outsources it to others if they aren't going to.

[Bryan]

6) People who are still hanging on to their aging G4's because Apple does not make a comparable replacement

7) People who are ready to buy their first computer, want a Mac, but don't want a closed system.

[Jarmo]

Yep, this is exactly what I'd like to see from Apple and I wouldn't mind paying premium. But it's not going to happen and here's why.
1.) Miditower would destroy MacPro sales.
90% of MacPro owners would actually take a miditower if it was an option. Don't believe me? Find out the sales figures of Xeon workstations vs "normal" PC towers.
Apple needs MacPros because it wants to be in the high end business, movies 3D and stuff. With 10% of current sales, macpro wouldn't be feasible.
2.) Miditower would cannibalize iMac sales. Not everybody wants all-in-one. They're not overpriced with the included screens, but the package just isnt a perfect fit for every need. The 8800 GS is a great improvement over previous high end card, but it's still a midrange product and you can't get it in the 20".
3.) All current macs are of good value in their individual product segments. But there are two main segments Apple doesn't compete in, the two most competed areas that make 90% of the sales (if not income). Minitower and base 15" portable. Both of these are availlable from the likes of HP and Acer for $500. There's just no way to go there and still sell the other stuff. And why go there when everybody selling sub $500 stuff is bleeding money.

[George76]

hillstones said:

If the "gamers" want a cheap mini-tower, just buy a cheap Windows box to play your PC games. Most games are played on a XBox 360 or PS3 connected to an HDTV, not a Mac or PC. The consoles are far more popular these days.

Sorry, but if you look at PC game software sales as another format, then it is still very much a viable player. Problem is that most comparisons pit PC software sales against the entire spectrum of console software formats: 360, PS3, Wii, PS2, DS, PSP, etc. It's no wonder that in such a comparison that PC games look like a dog. How well would NBC's ratings look if you compared to the combined viewership of every other channel out there?

And to BradPDX's comment:
You have it backwards. Consoles are the systems best suited for low level, simple games. Compare the number of buttons on a keyboard to those on a console game controller. Seems pretty obvious which is going to be better for complex games. Throw in the mouse, and consoles are reduced to a very crude interface. For example, how successful have real time strategy games been on a console versus a computer? Answer: not at all because they're nearly unplayable on a console. Or perhaps a more relevant example: MMO's. How many have even been attempted on a console?

Quote

Apple won't make a mini-tower because the iMac is already very popular, and they aren't going to introduce anything to

cripple the Mac Pro sales. I don't want a tower box and a separate monitor.

How popular is it really, though? Does it sell well because of its own merits or because its the only really practical model Apple offers? I have an iMac, but it wasn't my first choice. I'd much rather have a Mac Pro, but they are priced out of my range. Start adding upgrades to the Mini and it quickly reaches iMac prices and is constantly hindered by its poor graphics card. Maybe this is why Macbooks sell so well, because people figure if they're going to get stuck with an all-in-one model, they might as well be able to take it with them.

>Why would I want to spend more money with that combination when the iMac already has a superb 24" screen and plenty of power?

Maybe because if your monitor starts to fail, your only option is to buy a whole new computer and you can't easily just replace the monitor like you would with a minitower. Likewise if the hard drive craps out on you, your monitor becomes worthless in the process. It's the same reason that TVs with built in DVD players or VCRs never made much sense to me.

[bastion]

DisabledTrucker said:

There are many other reasons for having this "Open Computer" other than for playing games, people will also use it for server usages as well as others, especially those looking to use it for a media server in their homes. ...

None of Apple's current line-up is feasible for either of these options, not everyone needs a $3K server ...

I'm curious what aspect of a media server you think makes it a non-starter for current Apple offerings. I've been using a Core Solo mini in that capacity since that model came out and it's not even close to stressed.

[HalanR]

Exactly! I thought of my Mini when I read this. It serves as my home media server, even as my "Tivo" (using an EyeTV Hybrid adapter that records to an external drive). Works just fine...

[palane]

This is a thought provoking thread. I want an MMM, but will it be profitable? The objections stated on this thread boil down to (a) it will steal sales from iMacs and (b) it will steal sales from Mac Pros.
I think that stealing sales from iMacs can be dismissed. There is a huge gap in price point for $1500 for a mid-range iMac to $2800 for a Mac Pro. Come out with a mid-range Mac priced similarly to the iMac and with a higher profit margin.
The Mac Pro argument is trickier. I don't think many people are dropping an extra $1500 if all they need is a slot or two. In this regard, the high end iMac meets most needs. Some people would pick an MMM over a Mac Pro, but claims of 90% of Mac Pro sales vanishing are overblown.
So, will people buy an MMM that simply wouldn't buy an existing model? As has been seen on related threads, some people are simply giving up and buying a PC. There are applications that demand some expandability, but don't require a pro tower. Consider laboratory applications. One often needs a slot for a GPIB or data acquisition card. I can't justify spending $1500 just to have a card. Guess what I bought? A Dell. When well-equipped, it runs the cost of a mid-range iMac and is comparably spec'd. That was a lost sale for Apple.
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[palane]

Re: George76
One can replace components in an iMac. Technically, if the monitor dies, one could buy an external monitor and run it that way.
The greater issue is what happens when you want to replace the computer, but not the monitor. With an iMac, that's not an option.
BB