[Macworld]

Post your comments for What Visual Basic's Office return means for Mac IT here

[SPOOF]

MS Office becomes less and less relevant all the time.
Open Office continues to become more compatible, easier to use, and more available for the average user. Here's to hoping that some of the business folks see it and decide that it would be a good thing to add compatibility with for their IRM products. Once that happens, bye bye MS Office.

[montgomery_burns]

Open Office does nothing for Exchange server support on the Mac.

[Steve_S]

I would agree that the missing VBA piece of Office 2008 should cause users to really ask themselves why they need to "side-grade" to Office 2008. I'd also agree that Microsoft's actions should cause people to think twice about creating VBA dependent documents if at all possible.

That said, there is still the compatibility issue users have to deal with. For post people in office environments, they will come across VBA dependent MS Office files from time to time. Unfortunately, there is no real answer to this problem except to wait for MS Office 2012 (or whatever year they release it) to be released.

Also, I'm not sure I fully get the issue you're making with Sharepoint. Sharepoint accepts non-Office files. Office 2007 does have some integration with Sharepoint, but you have to realize that most corporate environments are running XP with Office 2003 still. Maybe in a couple years this may begin to be an issue, but I doubt it. Also, document management is only part of what Sharepoint is about and I'd argue it's probably the weakest part. It's more of a collaborative portal-like environment that allows for some levels of security. In short, I just don't see the Sharepoint integration as being significant either way.

[SPOOF]

Apple is integrating Exchange support into the iPhone, and one would imagine that this only means Exchange support in Mail and iCal should not be too far behind as well.

[anothersite]

What features are you looking for in using Mail with Exchange. I have already used Apple Mail in Tiger and Leopard with an Exchange server. Leopard added the ability to unsubscribe Exchange folders.

[SPOOF]

True, exchange "support" has been part of Mail even in 10.4. iCal, however, can't work with exchange directly, and using a global or server based address book, hosted on exchange, doesn't work so perfectly in Mail either.

[bynkii]

Steve_S said:

I would agree that the missing VBA piece of Office 2008 should cause users to really ask themselves why they need to "side-grade" to Office 2008. I'd also agree that Microsoft's actions should cause people to think twice about creating VBA dependent documents if at all possible.

It's not that simple, especially for Excel and Word. There are a lot of companies that use VBA to automate and enhance Word/Excel files and they need those to work. Without VBA, there's no other option on WIndows.

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That said, there is still the compatibility issue users have to deal with. For post people in office environments, they will come across VBA dependent MS Office files from time to time. Unfortunately, there is no real answer to this problem except to wait for MS Office 2012 (or whatever year they release it) to be released.

If you have a lot of accountants, Excel VBA is not just "time to time"

Quote

Also, I'm not sure I fully get the issue you're making with Sharepoint. Sharepoint accepts non-Office files. Office 2007 does have some integration with Sharepoint, but you have to realize that most corporate environments are running XP with Office 2003 still. Maybe in a couple years this may begin to be an issue, but I doubt it. Also, document management is only part of what Sharepoint is about and I'd argue it's probably the weakest part. It's more of a collaborative portal-like environment that allows for some levels of security. In short, I just don't see the Sharepoint integration as being significant either way.

Office 2003 allows for Sharepoint integration as well, and there are a lot of companies moving towards sharepoint. My point was, that unlike EITHER Office 2003 or 2007, the Mac version of Office has no integration beyond what you can get with Firefox/Safari. That's not much.

[bynkii]

anothersite said:

What features are you looking for in using Mail with Exchange. I have already used Apple Mail in Tiger and Leopard with an Exchange server. Leopard added the ability to unsubscribe Exchange folders.

Mail can only do IMAP/POP/SMTP, and Address Book only does a bit of LDAP and some DAV. Things like OOF, Public Folders, Distribution Groups, Server Side rules, removing attachments from the server, etc.

[BradPDX]

The largest, richest software company in the world cannot deliver full cross platform functionality. Why? As stated, it was "too hard" with the conversion to Universal Binary.
Oh, and you can't have Sharepoint integration. That must also be "too hard". Likewise full functionality with an Exchange Server - just more than they could do. You'd think the company was 4 guys in a garage who live with their parents.
Bunko. If they thought it was a good idea, they have nearly unlimited resources to upon which to draw. No, they are behaving as MS always has, by predictably defending their monopoly in one of the few areas that remains virtually unassailable. For now.
I am fortunate not to have strong dependencies upon these items, and so I am skipping any more MS Office on my Macs. Too much trouble, too little return.

[bowser]

BradPDX said:

The largest, richest software company in the world cannot deliver full cross platform functionality. Why? As stated, it was >"too hard" with the conversion to Universal Binary.

Oh, and you can't have Sharepoint integration. That must also be "too hard". Likewise full functionality with an Exchange Server - just more than they could do. You'd think the company was 4 guys in a garage who live with their parents.

Bunko. If they thought it was a good idea, they have nearly unlimited resources to upon which to draw. No, they are behaving as MS always has, by predictably defending their monopoly in one of the few areas that remains virtually unassailable. For now.

I am fortunate not to have strong dependencies upon these items, and so I am skipping any more MS Office on my
Macs. Too much trouble, too little return.

Hear, hear.

I got a new 15 MBP in January (right after the Air was revealed and I realized the Air wouldn't cut it for me as a primary computer), and because of the switch to an intel chip from my old 12" PowerBook, I relied on iWork to get my typical office type tasks done. I didn't bother with installing my PPC version of Office 2004; the only issues I've had is getting used to the different way Numbers does things compared to Excel. (Before the whiners start complaining about how Numbers can't do what Excel can do, I don't need it to do much, I'm not a book-keeper or accountant. For the kind of math that I need to do Excel is so far out of its league, I'd be better off using a pencil, calculator, and a notebook.)

I'm also taking the time to learn the TeX system for my serious writing; no more dependency on Microsoft for me... I only installed Office 2004 last week to ensure I could do some collaboration with a colleague on a research grant proposal and I found that it seems to run just fine on my new MacBook Pro. I won't use it for anything other than working with other people on their documents. I will not be spending another dime on any Monoposoft products, and I say good riddance.

[Steve_S]

bynkii said:

It's not that simple, especially for Excel and Word. There are a lot of companies that use VBA to automate and enhance Word/Excel files and they need those to work. Without VBA, there's no other option on WIndows.

You're right. I should have specified "Mac Office users". I didn't think that was necessary in the context of a Mac Office 2008 review, but your point is well taken.

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If you have a lot of accountants, Excel VBA is not just "time to time"

I manage an IT team (both developers and analysts) in support of Finance operations of a large company. I'm likewise familiar with accountant's use of Excel, etc. There are certainly some cases where some Excel based automations are the way to go. However, more often than not, we find our accountants trying to build a kludge of a solution themselves. In these cases, the automations should be done elsewhere. We end up "undoing what they did" and provide them with an Oracle based "production ready" solution that is more efficient, much easier to maintain, has better security, is fully SOX compliant, etc.

Quote

Office 2003 allows for Sharepoint integration as well, and there are a lot of companies moving towards sharepoint. My point was, that unlike EITHER Office 2003 or 2007, the Mac version of Office has no integration beyond what you can get with Firefox/Safari. That's not much.

I use Sharepoint regularly, but I haven't tried to use it with a Mac. My interaction with Sharepoint is through the web browser (IE). If I click on a document, it will open up in Office. Beyond that, I don't see what other integration is necessary. Maybe I'm missing something. Even still, Sharepoint is a very weak document management solution. It's a decent collaborative environment though. The Office integration you speak of is with regard to document management. Again, I just don't see this as being a significant issue one way or the other.

[whitedog]

It's simply the case that Office on the Mac has been for most of its history a Microsoft step-child without full access privileges to family (company) assets. You can argue and speculate till the cows come home about Microsoft's motives and rationale for this strategy, but Office on the Mac is, and no doubt will remain for the foreseeable future, a less than equal partner with Office on Windows. Thus has Microsoft been able to have its cake and eat it, too. Quite cunning, really.
We can quibble about which (missing) features are important to which people, but the fact the number of absent features increased in Office 'O8 is the salient point. Sure, some standard functionality was enhanced, but overall capability was reduced, not expanded. That's the bottom line.
By the time VBA returns to Office on the Mac, however, it quite possibly won't matter any more. Having had four years to learn to do without, the Mac world will have moved on to other solutions. Unless Microsoft integrates all the missing capabilities (like those discussed here), the next version can only be a dud.
The latest beta of Open Office cuts the apron strings to X11 and thus begins to be competitive with NeoOffice. In two or three years Pages, Numbers and the other Apple productivity apps will have matured substantially. All these programs, plus Google Apps, will provide Mac users with viable - and markedly less expensive - alternatives to Office. At that point the question of whether Microsoft supports the Mac may very well be moot.
The question the folks at the Mac BU have to answer is whether they wish to compete in this Brave New World for Mac mind and market share by finally developing a full featured version of Office, or will they persist in treating Mac users like second class citizens? By the time their next iteration of Office comes out, their very livelihoods may depend on the answer. And, given the wrong answer, they can be sure that most Mac users couldn't care less.