[Adammiller]

Well said.

[horacious]

Very well put, Spinoza2!

[FredTheOldGuy]

Gordon,

It's users like you that I'd love to hear from--folks who use both Mac and PC computers. My iMac still hasn't arrived but probably will tomorrow. Is your experience with Applice computers significantly better than your experience with PCs? Do you think the Mac is faster or easier to use--or just cooler? A computer's "cool" factor doesn't matter very much to me. Common wisdom has it that a PC is better for office work and that the Mac is better for creative work (graphics, photo editing, movies, etc.) and the publishing industry. and that Macs are just plain more intuitive, easier to use, and less prone to technical difficulties (though I've seen some notes here that suggest that Macs have had some problems with the most recent operating system--is it Tiger?). So on the whole, do you prefer your Mac or your PC?

[UncleRoss]

I like the look and feel of the new keyboard - but it is too stiff and I do loose letters when typing.
But my biggest complaint is that the darned thing is just too small - it's like a laptop keyboard - which I dislike. I have small hands for a man, but still I am constantly running into trouble because the keys are too close together. I am constantly accidentally snagging the Caps Lock when I reach for an "a," etc.
Someday I'm going to figure out why we need two sets of numbers keys because that's pretty valuable real estate! And does anyone really use the keys between the qwerty keys and the keypad?

[Tom_Diola]

Oh what a complete waste of the forum on this topic.

I got the new keyboard last September 2007 and it's fantastic.

I have 4 different users on the same computer and nobody says it's junk.

If you don't like it trash it and get one of those Earagonomical Microsoft Crazy Looking Wavy Stupid Keyboards split

in half with the keys in odd places slanted the wrong way not to mention ugly keyboards.

[dougoftheabaci]

FredTheOldGuy said:

It's users like you that I'd love to hear from--folks who use both Mac and PC computers. My iMac still hasn't arrived but probably will tomorrow. Is your experience with Applice computers significantly better than your experience with PCs? Do you think the Mac is faster or easier to use--or just cooler? A computer's "cool" factor doesn't matter very much to me. Common wisdom has it that a PC is better for office work and that the Mac is better for creative work (graphics, photo editing, movies, etc.) and the publishing industry. and that Macs are just plain more intuitive, easier to use, and less prone to technical difficulties (though I've seen some notes here that suggest that Macs have had some problems with the most recent operating system--is it Tiger?). So on the whole, do you prefer your Mac or your PC?

I know this wasn't directed at me but I meet the criteria of a Mac/PC user quite well. The most recent OS is Leopard, 10.5.3 to be exact. It's rather stable and secure for me, especially after this latest update. Also, I'm an avid PC gamer and am a web designer thus I spend plenty of time on Windows if only to do browser testing.

In my experience working on a Mac tends to be a bit faster, for me at least. Part of that is due to the fact that I'm more used to OS X since I spend more time there. Thus any problems that do arise I can quickly solve. However there's also the usability factor. Macs are more user-friendly in every respect. A friend of mine who works in IT and has do deal with Macs, PCs and Linux computers on a daily basis doing trouble-shooting said that PCs come in the most and Macs were the easiest to deal with. However, he said when Macs did come in they tended to have the most creative problems since they were often user-based.

As for one being better for office work than the other, that simply isn't the case anymore. The truth of the matter now would be that Macs are more expensive than PCs thus they tend not to be bought as often for businesses, who look for ways to limit expenditure.

If money wasn't an issue I'd always recommend a Mac to people, especially those who aren't tech savvy. As that same friend described it, Windows machines are designed by computer people for themselves. Because of this they aren't very user friendly or visually attractive. OS X is built by computer people for non-computer people thus it is simple and attractive.

[spinoza2]

Fred,
in terms of computers, I've been 'ambidextrous' with PCs and Macs for over 20 years, switching back and forth without skipping a beat. I'm writing this on a MacBook Pro, and at my desk I also own a high-end Sony Vaio running Vista Ultimate. I can say, without hesitation, that it's not even a contest--Mac OS X is far, far superior in usability and power than Vista; they really don't even deserve to be compared.

I also have a Windows XP machine and have been using XP since its release many years ago. The few times I use XP now it seems very 'retro' to me, like nostalgically going back to an earlier time in computing. Windows XP works, and it's reasonably stable, but it feels dated and is very two-dimensional and flat. For the people who plan on sticking with XP is comparable to those who decide to keep their old beat-up Ford, because they're used to its idiosyncrasies and quirks. Leopard, in its power and usability, comes across much more like the next generation of computing in its three-dimensionally rich user environment. Leopard is deceptively easy to use: underneath that intuitively friendly interface is a sophisticated powerhouse that puts one into a whole new dimension of computing. If you want to make use of that power, I would recommend fully integrating iLife (including iWeb and .mac) into your lifestyle, as well as iWork, and I would also recommend picking up David Pogue's Missing Manual Series book on Leopard, which is by far the best book on learning the inner workings of OS X. I've helped countless friends and acquaintances "make the switch", and the worst criticism I've heard thus far is that they're enjoying their new computing experience with a Mac so much they find themselves spending way too much time with it!

[walueg]

Fred, I make my living supporting PCs, but at home, I use a Mac. That said, I have Vista Business installed as well as XP Professional on my personal MacBook. I have to support them so I need them in my life. Vista is pretty and modern looking, but I can't think of a single use for it. It resides there on my BootCamp partition and every now and then I go in and update it. I use XP in a virtual machine (VMWare Fusion) for one piece of software which will be on the Mac soon. Otherwise, I have no personal need for Windows.

An interesting note is that it's easier to install Windows on a Mac than it is to install it on a PC. On my Vista Bootcamp installation, I ran the Windows installer and then put my MacBook DVD in and ran Setup to install the drivers and I was done. I've done this for a few WinTel laptops (Sony and Toshiba) and this is way easier. For XP Pro, I installed it with VMWare Fusion. Fusion asked me all the questions up front, ran the installer and boom, it was done. No babysitting!

Leopard is far and away the most powerful thing I've ever used. Back to My Mac and Screen Sharing are amazing. It has revolutionized file sharing in my house and even away from it. Without configuration, authenticating with my .mac account, my computers show up in my Shared sidebar. And that's just one of many cool things. It's ver' nice.

[folklore]

Don't mock the Microsoft Natural keyboard. I had one of the original ones (no media keys) for years. It was easily the best keyboard I ever used. It took me less than a week to get used to and completely did away with the wrist strain I was having at the time. It looked weird and had a huge footprint, but it worked extremely well.

[dbutenhof]

[quote name='dougoftheabaci']
>

FredTheOldGuy said:

Quote

As for one being better for office work than the other, that simply isn't the case anymore. The truth of the matter now would be that Macs are more expensive than PCs thus they tend not to be bought as often for businesses, who look for ways to limit expenditure.

More a matter of IT being locked into Exchange and having deep equity in Windows troubleshooting, really. Microsoft got into business because when they duped IBM, they got carried along on IBM's business cachet. They took the ball and ran, and never stopped. Macs are different. They don't run ActiveX, on which many internal corporate web sites foolishly depend. They don't (except for the brief flirtation with shipping an IE as the default browser) support all of the IE bugs and quirks on which Windows-only web developers depend. They don't have a truly good and complete Exchange client (which is entirely Microsoft's fault, but that's irrelevant). Mostly, they just look and work different, and IT is afraid. (Nor, I'm sure, does it help that a lot of widely available evidence suggests Macs justify less IT.)

Quote

If money wasn't an issue I'd always recommend a Mac to people, especially those who aren't tech savvy. As that same friend described it, Windows machines are designed by computer people for themselves. Because of this they aren't very user friendly or visually attractive. OS X is built by computer people for non-computer people thus it is simple and attractive.

I'm a computer person. In fact I'm a software developer and architect with decades of experience in system software, mostly on enterprise UNIX type systems. I have always hated the inelegance and lack of attention to detail and consistency that I see in everything about PCs and Windows. It feels creepy and dirty. I hear your comparison about "computer people vs non-computer people" a lot, but I think it's the other way around. Windows is designed by marketing committee to efficiently extract money from management dweebs who don't know what they're buying and really only care about the name on the box. Mac OS X is designed by computer people for themselves, with the elegance and design they'd like to be able to put into everything and have for themselves to use. Luckily, it happens that ordinary people, when given a free choice, often also choose elegance and design.

[Stephen123]

I think the wireless combined several goals in one model because they wanted to limit the number of different products. Small and compact went well with wireless; and they took advantage of that to have a key layout that exactly matches the laptop.

But I think the decision to omit the numeric keypad may have been an error. They could have made a key layout exactly as it is on the laptops, omitted the navigation keys, and included the numeric keypad. Between the folks who want the navigation keys and the folks who want the numeric keypad, I think there's a significant market share, and you can have both with just a numeric keypad and a numlock key. That would have left the QWERTY area still matching the laptops, been unusually compact, and satisfied more users.

[gballey]

{quote}It's users like you that I'd love to hear from--folks who use both Mac
and PC computers. My iMac still hasn't arrived but probably will
tomorrow. Is your experience with Applice computers significantly
better than your experience with PCs? Do you think the Mac is faster
or easier to use--or just cooler? A computer's "cool" factor doesn't
matter very much to me. Common wisdom has it that a PC is better for
office work and that the Mac is better for creative work (graphics,
photo editing, movies, etc.) and the publishing industry. and that
Macs are just plain more intuitive, easier to use, and less prone to
technical difficulties (though I've seen some notes here that suggest
that Macs have had some problems with the most recent operating
system--is it Tiger?). So on the whole, do you prefer your Mac or
your PC?
{quote}

Some others beat me to the punch, so I won't repeat what they have already said.

Let's put it this wasy - I use a PC at the office because I have to, but I use Macs at home because I actually enjoy using them.

I've been a computer programmer (though not on Macs) since a few years after college (the '70s), and I've always been impressed with the elegance of the Mac user interface, and the software it inspires. Windows feels very "clunky" to me, by comparison.

-Gordon

[Tom_Diola]

mock ? So you said you used one for years- but not now?

[folklore]

I picked up my Microsoft Natural keyboard second-hand in about 1996. It finally broke in 2004. I figure eight years of daily use is good enough for a keyboard. It was easily the best keyboard I've ever used.

I'd buy the current incarnation - the Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 - despite its Windows-ness but most of my typing happens on a MacBook Pro these days. I probably should get a stand and external keyboard for the MBP, but the stands tend to be expensive for what they are and block the optical drive.