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What I Hate about Leopard

#15 User is online   JScott Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 11:20 AM

Dang it I meant Leopard. Hard to keep all these cats in order.
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#16 User is online   k2director Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 11:39 AM

Leopard is incredibly buggy and Apple should be be ashamed of putting it out in such an un-tested state.
Even with 10.5.3, I have a bunch of problems, the more infuriating ones being:
* RSS feeds in Mail (a new feature for Leopard) constantly disappear from my Mail app. They just aren't there half the time, and even when they are there, they refuse to update for days at a time. The whole concept of RSS feeds in Mail is a joke.
* .Mac iDisk synching became broken in Leopard. Everytime you save a new version of a document in your iDIsk, Leopard now tells you that there's a conflict and asks you to manually choose which document to keep--the version you just saved or the version on the .Mac server. Obviously, .Mac should choose the recently revised version and not bother me about it. That's how iDisk synching has ALWAYS worked, but it's become broken in Leopard. Apple tech support is also completely clueless on how to fix the problem...every suggestion they make is useless, and I suspect it's because it's a fundamental bug in Leopard.
* Finder windows regularly disappear when you unmount a volume.
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#17 User is offline   memyselfandi Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 11:42 AM

Survey... would be nice to see if ones having problems did a upgrade or a clean install. I always clone my boot drive and do clean install, then use migration assistant to bring settings back. Always had stellar results in moving to a new version of OS. To me OS installs are the time to get rid of the "ghosts in the machine".
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#18 User is offline   John_Scott Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 11:54 AM

Basically I think Leopard took a back seat to the iPhone. Hard to think any different since Leopard was obviously delayed because of it. Then it became a rushed through polish and they missed a few spots. Sure, they have tried to make things right.
But its one of those one step ahead two back.
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#19 User is offline   Jeter2Fan93 Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 12:01 PM

Regarding your keychain issues, did you use an app like Service Scrubber (before it's Leopard-ready update)? I had that same issue til I realized that Service Scrubber caused apps like Mail and Safari to not use the keychain, and it's all because the apps are 'signed' by Apple, and Service Scrubber would cause them to behave improperly.
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#20 User is online   timewasting Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 12:09 PM

I absolutely HATE not being able to play AirTunes through Front Row anymore. The loss of the functionality with Leopard ticked me off far more than anything else.
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#21 User is offline   scotts13 Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 12:19 PM

I was every bit as irritated with Leopard as the original poster - at first. I had done an upgrade installation onto my QuickSilver G4. When I got a new (to me) G5 and did a clean installation, 95% of my issues disappeared.
The remaining problems are mostly UI gaffes, like the search and Finder window issues previously mentioned.
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#22 User is offline   mbanks Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 12:25 PM

Well, I too am longing for my Powerbook running 10.4.x. It was an odd occurrence when I couldn't go a month without rebooting. Since I upgraded my MBPro to 10.5.3 (10.5.2 was OK), it's a good day when I don't get a kernel panic. I've had up to 6 in one day.
And before you say "do a clean install," I did that two days ago. I've had one kernel panic since then, and i had to reboot today because half of the LED backlights in the screen (every other row?) seemed to be out until I rebooted. My next step will be to go back to 10.5.2 again. This is the most unstable Mac OS I've ever used since I started in 1984... If I could run 10.4.11 on this HW, I would.
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#23 User is offline   jkleis Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 12:29 PM

Personally, there are things that I miss in the Leopard edition which I think were natural to add. However, I am not willing to wait 2.5 years in order to get them or to pay for. I also agree with John_Scott, that iPhone seemed to get most of the Apple programmers attention. The feature I use the least in Leopard is in fact coverflow.
On my wish list, is improvements to spaces and dock integration and also better searching options - which Apple would be the right ones to make (third party vendors are a bit off when it concerns modifying low level stuff) and integration of features.
1) Already noted above, but I can not find any excuse for this behavior.
When I write something in the seach-box in any folder, I expect OS X to search within the current selection - not all over the place.
2) Apple is normally known for its ability to make seemless integration between different programs. However, I do not understand why it is not supported in the spotlight search menu.
3) Spaces: I like and use spaces - but it is as I see it a "non native" plugin. It seems as an external application, not well integrated with the dock. So 1) why didn't Apple make it possible to change the Docks open programs depending on which space is currently open. (spaces has entries in the Dock.plist file, so it natural to think this way). And 2) The spaces does not offer much compared to already existing tools for linux, or the old and free desktop manager. If it really should be innovative - why not make an arbitrary zoom function in OS X. Then is would be possible to have, e.g. two spaces open at the same time (half size though) and copy/paste back and forth between application. As it is now, you either has to move between spaces to get the stuff that you want - og you have to move windows around.
4) The Dock - Nice that listview now are implemented - however, why can't I drag and drop in these list/views. Sometimes I just want to drag a file out - but I do not want to open finder to do that. Actually, it seems that the reveal (apple+R) button doesn't work either in these listviews - which are rather annoying.
4.1) Stacks has been implemented in the Dock - however, I have trouble to see, why these are not used on top of the programs. If I look at a program in the Dock - why can't I then get my open program windows top open up as a Stack??? That would be natural way to prevent the dock from blowing up due to a lot of minimized windows (I know I can hide them, but with spaces it can actually be useful to have it the other way)
5) Menu search help-menu. In Leopard Apple introduced the excellent menu search (Apple+/) - where one can find the shortcuts to menu items, and open them, without having to search all over the place. It could be really nice, if it worked the adaptive quicksilver way, and made it possible to go to dialog windows too. In that way - a whole new input interface could be made up, where you do not have to remember strange short-cuts etc. I would really be glad if a QS strategy could be implemented throughout the system.
In the above, no new thing has been added - only functionality of existing applications and better integration has been suggested. So as it seems to me, they should be included as a point update, or a free snow leopard edition.
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#24 User is offline   aladin Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 12:33 PM

I do not agree with you. I have a machine that have 10.4.11 on it. The system has been install on a iMac G3 with the 10.0 that machine has been upgrade to 10.3(gradually using 10.1 10.2) on this iMac. The system has been copied on an other iMac G4. Has been upgraded to 10.4.11. Everything work on that machine very well. I do a lot of magic to make my PowerMac G5 being upgraded to 10.5.0 (from 10.4.x). First upgrade didn't work well. It's a upgrade of the old system had problem with this one. Try it with a clean install everything go well up to i start the MIgration Assistant start back with problem. I have manually migrate my file on another install of 10.5. An it wasn't always so stable. Really better now at 10.5.3. An it's just one story i know other people that had problem.
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#25 User is offline   brjames Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 12:38 PM

The only real issue I've ever had with Leopard occured when it first came out. Safari would work fine for awhile, then it would start crashing and eventually, it wouldn't launch. However, Camino, my back up browser at the time, would work fine all the time. Eventually, I went into my Airport Express, changed the channel setting from "Automatic" to a specific channel, and the Safari problem went away. I haven't had a major issue since. I'll occasionally have a minor hiccup, but that's what reboots are for.
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#26 User is offline   ericgorr Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 12:42 PM

Your issues with the keychain is largely because there are still many applications which are not code signed. This is an excellent security feature within the OS that all developers should use NOW. Once code signed, those annoying security dialogs will just disappear. There is no way for Apple to handle this for the developer in a consistently secure manner...it will require that developers spend the 5 minutes it takes to get their applications signed - so, if you notice that a particular application is bringing up those various security dialogs a lot, write to the company and ask them to make sure they are code signing their apps.

Here's more info:

http://developer.app...RN-CodeSigning/
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#27 User is offline   btlzu2 Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 12:51 PM

i don't mean to be rude, but if ever there was a more incorrect write-up than this one, i'd love to see it. when i first got a mac during tiger. i never ceased to get at least get a weekly lockup and frequent refusal for my mbp to wake from sleep. i was about to give up and go back to my dell which was no worse stability-wise really when i decided to try leopard first.
as a software engineer and a fan of apple in general, i'd have to say that it is simply the finest operating system i've ever used.
no more lockups, wonderful new features, and absolutely none of the problems described by this essay. i'd have to assume "problem between keyboard and chair" here. :)
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#28 User is offline   Adwiz Icon

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Posted 13 June 2008 - 12:53 PM

As a Mac user since the 512K model from 1985, I've owned over a dozen different models and run through every version of the Mac OS that was ever produced. And I have to agree that Leopard has been the most challenging. Some of my machines have run beautifully on Leopard, while others have had countless problems, even requiring a complete clean re-install on the G5 after it would no longer boot. The problems are various and seem to be random; you never know what will work or not work from day to day. One of the most frustrating problems has been the loss of printing capabilities on my PowerBook G4. Even re-installing the print drivers numerous times and re-installing Leopard has not fixed it. Hopefully Snow Leopard will take care of it.
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