[natmusak]

@ mkandy and dougoftheabaci,

On your ideas of first-run help dialogs, some already exist. A few weeks ago I converted my cousin and after setting up her iMac (the 24" screen is awesome) I thought I'd play around with some of the iLife apps as I'm running the older '07 versions. I started GarageBand, iPhoto, and iMovie. On first run, each popped up a dialog box with pictures and descriptions of what the app did, including (as far as I remember) some basic instructions. For instance, iMovie depicted how to drag-and-drop videos into the timeline window. Of course, they also put an instructional PDF on Leopard's new Stacks in a stack in the Dock.

Seems like the only thing that most people need help on is figuring out which app is the web browser. :D If, on the icon, the world underneath Safari's compass overlay was just a little more well defined, people's confusion there might disappear completely. Thankfully, Apple always points out Safari as the iPhone's web browser in ads (not to mention they same icon as the desktop version), so in time people will recognize it just as they do Firefox and IE's icons.

Also, I must say, Leopard's new Spotlight-eque Help menu is rather helpful as I can simply point it out to new users if they're confused and with some entries (like printing), the Help menu can even preform it for them.

[mkandy]

I am well aware of these first run dialogues. I sometimes make use of them myself. I like Doug's idea of allowing the user to select whether it is their first time using mac os/application and then helping the user along.

It's interesting though;

On Doug's suggestion, I just downloaded Firefox. After downloading they displayed a page on how to install it (dragging to apps folder) and how to add to dock (drag and drop).

It's funny how fast progress is made when short-comings are pointed out.

[whitedog]

{quote}On Doug's suggestion, I just downloaded Firefox. After downloading they displayed a page on how to install it (dragging to apps folder) and how to add to dock (drag and drop).

It's funny how fast progress is made when short-comings are pointed out.{quote}

That's fine if you download Firefox from Mozilla.org. But if you get it from one of the software update sites, like Version Tracker, you won't see that page of instructions. The Firefox disk image has not been updated, something that could be done far more easily than setting up a web page with screen shots and instructions. They could, for instance, turn that web page into a PDF or RTF readme file and include it in the download. Admittedly, it would clutter up their simple, elegant graphic, but it would enhance the actual user experience, as would a few words of explanatory text included in the disk image background. Considering how much work is involved in building a good web browser, either or both of these changes should be dead simple - if they take usability even half seriously.

When design follows function it can be boring (though it doesn't have to be - take the G5 tower and, even better, the Mac Pro); but when design has no function beyond vanity, in this context, it is as useless as the proverbial screen door on a submarine.

[dolphinbuddy]

I've always had a mac, and it never occurred to me that someone would not know how to interpret that situation. Every time I sit down at a windows box, I get frustrated and want to smash it with a hammer. Even the little things on a PC, like certain text-entry behaviors, are so counterintuitive to me.

[kawika]

Exactly. As a sysadmin for a 25-person all-Mac firm, I see the detritus of installs left on people's computers weekly. There are no instructions for ejecting disk images or deleting .dmg files. People are worried of trashing the wrong thing. Some even use the app out of the disk image itself. Seems like there should be a best practice for auto-deleting the image and the file once the app is properly installed.

[kawika]

A challenge with Apple's preference for installer packages remains the laborious click-read-click-read-click-read-read-read-click nature of the beast. "Leopard leverages these features to provide users an improved install
experience" to be sure, but the novice user simply feels as if he or she is fighting the system. Too many clicks and too much reading, no matter how well intended, can paralyze newbies.

[whitedog]

kawika said:

Exactly. As a sysadmin for a 25-person all-Mac firm, I see the detritus of installs left on people's computers weekly. There are no instructions for ejecting disk images or deleting .dmg files. People are worried of trashing the wrong thing. Some even use the app out of the disk image itself. Seems like there should be a best practice for auto-deleting the image and the file once the app is properly installed.

I think that's why Leopard has a new default location for file downloads - the Downloads folder in the user folder. This doesn't eliminate the problems with drag-and-drop installs, but it does take care of the inadvertent desktop clutter issue.

{quote}A challenge with Apple's preference for installer packages remains the laborious click-read-click-read-click-read-read-read-click nature of the beast. "Leopard leverages these features to provide users an improved install
experience" to be sure, but the novice user simply feels as if he or she is fighting the system. Too many clicks and too much reading, no matter how well intended, can paralyze newbies.{quote}

There's the rub - not enough information for drag-and-drop instals and too much information in application installers. The latter problem, at least, is common in both Mac and Windows installers so switchers should be in familiar territory.

For newbies, I think Apple should include a tutorial, either pre-installed in the OS or on a DVD that comes with every new Mac. Since many never open the package with the printed manual and install DVDs, certainly not before first starting their new computer, I think a pre-installed tutorial would be preferable. Just because Windows has one doesn't mean it's automatically a bad idea.

[Stormchild]

GrahamPadruig said:

The developer could also check when the application is launched that it is not running from its installation disc image. If it is they could offer to copy it to the application folder for the user.

Agreed. This is exactly how it should be handled. I've seen a couple programs that do this.

[nittany4]

I don't know about you, but i see A LOT of my colleagues
and other new mac converts running apps (mainly firefox as a matter of fact) from the mounted disk image instead of dragging it into the app folder as is so obviously stated.
maybe an "installer" that places the app in the apps folder where it belongs isn't such a bad idea

[Gerrymo]

Lol,

I have been a windows guy for about ten years now. I have even built my own PC's because I hate all the junk companies put hard drives and over charge for parts when the ship the product out. Sooooooo I recently decided to buy a Macbook to see what the buzz is about.

Like the article says. It took me literally 30 minutes to figure out how to install firefox on my macbook. I tried dragging, pushing, even blowing on the screen. I just couldnt figure it out. untill I google'd how to install programs on Leopard. Felt like a dummy and so vulnerable because I wasnt an expert anymore. Anyway I like this macbook thing. Its growing on me.....

[ruprecht]

I understand ... slightly. In the first couple of instances of seeing these installation windows I read it (inferred) that I had to drop the application into the apps folder via the finder. It was by accident probably that I found the icon of the apps folder was actually an alias or shortcut.
Nevertheless, even if the app icon in the installation window was just a drawing and part of the background, the directions are pretty intuitive.
Still, when i'm navigating through windows i find myself struggling with stuff that's no doubt very basic to PC heads. Maybe struggling is inaccurate, 'loathe to put something in the wrong place and mess up the whole machine' is probably more accurate.
Cheers

[whitedog]

Gerrymo said:

Lol,


I have been a windows guy for about ten years now. I have even built my own PC's because I hate all the junk companies put hard drives and over charge for parts when the ship the product out. Sooooooo I recently decided to buy a Macbook to see what the buzz is about.


Like the article says. It took me literally 30 minutes to figure out how to install firefox on my macbook. I tried dragging, pushing, even blowing on the screen. I just couldnt figure it out. untill I google'd how to install programs on Leopard. Felt like a dummy and so vulnerable because I wasnt an expert anymore. Anyway I like this macbook thing. Its growing on me.....

Welcome to the wonderful world of Mac. And welcome to the Macworld forums. If you want to start building your Mac expertise, you might visit MacFixIt. It's a troubleshooting site that helped me many years ago when I was new to the Mac. Don't let the problems discussed there scare you off. Many of the issues covered can be resolved with standard troubleshooting techniques, which they explain in detail.

Also, there are some videos on the Apple web site that can assist you in learning your way around the new system.

[whitedog]

ruprecht said:

I understand ... slightly. In the first couple of instances of seeing these installation windows I read it (inferred) that I had to drop the application into the apps folder via the finder. It was by accident probably that I found the icon of the apps folder was actually an alias or shortcut.

Nevertheless, even if the app icon in the installation window was just a drawing and part of the background, the directions are pretty intuitive.

Still, when i'm navigating through windows i find myself struggling with stuff that's no doubt very basic to PC heads. Maybe struggling is inaccurate, 'loathe to put something in the wrong place and mess up the whole machine' is probably more accurate.

Cheers

The whole notion of "intuitive" as it applies to using a computer is far too subjective to really be useful. In point of fact it's little more than a marketing buzz word. For one thing, many new, and not so new, Mac users don't even know what the Applications folder is, let alone where it is or how to find it. Nor do they grasp the notion of a shortcut or alias. For this reason, though a drag-and-drop installation may be useful for those of us who already know our way around, for many others it's nothing but trouble.

The real solution is education, but you cannot force people to RTFM. For this reason, an introductory video on new Macs would be a superior alternative.

[anasazi4st]

I would also like to welcome you to the world of Mac (and Apple).

You might find it interesting, amusing and informative to check out this link ( http://www.mactracker.com ) and poke around some there. He's done a great job of collecting and organizing this huge amount of data. As someone else who's built his own Windows boxes, I'd ask you to take a look at some of the older desktop Macs (G3 and G4 models) and marvel and the beauty and simplicity of their engineering and design. When I opened up my first desktop Mac (a PowerPC 6700) I just sat there and studied it...and thought "why aren't the PC people building machines like these?"

This same thinking permeates all of Apple's product line.