[Jethro]

I'm sure many of the same content owner that helped the iPod's success do not feel that it's time to do the same with video. Production cost is the key...they could lose their advertising bread and butter (not the same mechanism with people ripping CDs).

They answer will lies in third party software being able to emulate a TiVo and get Apple of the hook. Perhaps something in the new iPhone app store will tell my home computer to record my favorite shows. in 1080p of course

[tallscot]

>I have over 40GB of music; I would hate to see how much space encoding all of my DVD's would take

And DVD is so 1990s. How much space for BDs? 5-7 gigs each?

[modingo]

"When I want something from broadcast TV, I have DVR from Sony that has
no monthly fees but is updated every night over the air, hence it is no
longer on the market since that business model did not work out well."
Well, according to a Panasonic rep, that business model did work well...alittle too well for the likes of TiVo and others. Panasonic and other popular DVR makers that provided online TV Guides and DVR capabilities were threatened with lawsuits and they all, within 3 months, bowed out due to the pressure. I purchased my DVR about 4 years ago and tried to purchase another one last year but couldn't find a single DVR model that didn't have a monthly fee for programming attached (AKA: TiVo). Every website that listed my Panasonic DVR said "Out of Stock". I decided to call Panasonic HQ to find out what happened and where all these DVR's went and was told the rest of the story.

[trip1ex]

Cable and satellite companies undercut Tivo which is why Tivo doesn't make any money and which is why Apple won't make a DVR.

Plus you might as well just buy a Tivo then if you want a DVR. They have a great interface and I doubt Apple can do any better.

ATV hasn't become an iPod because Ipods actually did something no other device did. ATV doesn't do anything my DVD player, cable subscription or Tivo don't do. And it doesn't replace those devices either.

Sure ATV makes movie rentals more convenient, but they also cost quite a bit more than options like Redbox and Netflix.

For movie ownership you run into storage costs which are still expensive. Plus one should have a backup otherwise you'll lose all your movies if your harddrive goes down.

Last the content isn't there for the ATV. If you could watch Live sports, or same day delay that would help alot. If every TV show was available that would help. And again prices need to come down.

Cable TV for a family four is just a much better deal than an ATV (really 2 or 3 or 4 ATVS) could deliver.

Plus ATV is kind of a hassle. I mean you have to network the thing for starters and in your living room. There goes half your potential customer base. (yeah people are retarded or don't have wi-fi and don't want to run a wire.)

Then there's the fact that you only have to switch your DVD every 2 hours to watch a movie. It's not much of a hassle. Most people probably don't watch 2 movies in a row even.

Then you have cable companies that offer on-demand content as well. And you don't need to buy a device or network it.

[DSPhoenix]

Purchasing ad-free content versus recording ad-filled content are not conflicting business models. A DVR plus iTunes model could coexist.
DVR functionality could be easily added. Federal mandates cable card access. This card enables TIVOs and any other independent DVR access to cable channels. Unfortunately, this doesnt work with satellite.
I think it would be an excellent idea for ATV to include a cable card input.

[lkanthatham]

Hi, Luck here from AppleTVSource. Nothing much to add here. This discussion about the Tivo functionality has been around since day 1 of the Apple TV's release. I think Apple wanted to add this functionality, they would've done so a while back. There is nothing technically difficult to add this feature, it is just very much up to them to add it.
Just one major correction on your article though. Apple TV was released in March of 2007 not 2006. It was announced in September of 2006 as iTV. It was introduced in January '07 at the MacWorld conference but was immediately overshadowed by the announcement of the iPhone.

[bigpics]

lwdesign said:

Apple will probably never allow the Apple TV to become a digital video recorder for one simple reason: Apple relies on the major studios for the movies and TV shows it sells and rents via iTunes. If people can record directly from TV, they can record the same shows and a lot of the movies they would otherwise buy or rent from iTunes. The studios would pull out of iTunes and Apple would be left in the lurch. So, it's simple economics. Apple will never produce the ideal consumer set-top box because it would alienate its content providers.

It will be up to some enterprising third party company to come up with a software/hardware "fix" to bring this functionality to the Apple TV--if it can be done.

This has to be part of the equation -- but I haven't seen any comments (by the author or forum posters) as to how Apple would handle the skip commercials part of the equation any differently than TiVo -- which the author cites as a prominent TiVo shortcoming -- without riling the studios even more.......

[Biallystock]

redheadtempe33 said:

Those who call for commercial free DVRs like the columnist are, to be blunt, morons. Who do they think are paying for the shows they are watching? Do they realize how much it costs to make a show like Lost or 24? It is the companies who advertise during the shows who pay for it. I don't like watching commercials as much as the next guy but this is how American television works.

Right, and there is nowhere else, is there? Nor any other way of doing anything.

[MacGod]

thrint said:

The one thing that everyone who calls the Apple TV (and other set top boxes) "TiVO Killer" is that there is no recording function, no season pass functions no scheduling information (local AND web based) and no automatic recordings of TiVO recommendations.

Even the Cable Company provided DVRs are crap compared to a TiVO.

I have had a series 2 TiVO for 3+ years and would not trade it for anything currently on the market.

Yeah it is not perfect but until Apple comes up with a features list comparable/equal to TiVO calling the Apple TV a TiVO Killer is laughable and makes this article a good candidate for being called link-bait

Huh? Did you even read the article? Or even clearly read the sub-headline? The sub-headline reads "How Apple should turn the Apple TV into a Tivo-killer", not that it is a Tivo-killer. In fact, if you read the entire article, the author says exactly what you're saying. That, without TV-recording features, and all the other things that the Tivo offers, the Apple TV can never supplant that device. The author seems to be wishing that Apple would add all those features, and do so with typical Apple panache and style, which might then make the device a Tivo-killer. That fairly clearly indicates that he doesn't think it's a Tivo-killer now.

Chill out and read the article before you flame on.

[Lancelot9201]

Yea, but to demand that I watch 12 ot 15 mins. worth of commercial during one hour program is absurd..

When the industry stops being greedy pigs & cuts that number in half I won't fast forward. Anyway,

what's the different between someone who fast forwards & the remote nut who just flips channels.? Plus,

they now have additional revenue vehicles they didn't have even 5 yrs ago. Considering the Websites,

Amazon, Walmart, iTunes that now generate funds for them they aren't hurting, that's for sure..

[PeterHill]

I have both an Apple TV and a Tivo. The Tivo does a great job keeping me from needing to know what day or time a show I watch is playing. The commercial skip feature works great and is easy to set up.. just google it and you'll find the simple instructions.
The Tivo interface kicks the butt of any cable company DVR. The colors are a bit garish, but works fairly well.
I use the Apple TV to watch iTunes content. Instead of recording off the air/cable, I'd rather more programs be available for download. I already watch Face the Nation and Meet the Press. Both of them incorporate minimal ads that I usually don't bother skipping.
I think what keeps more programs from following this model are the local tv stations. They are very afraid of losing the ad revenue from content they get from the networks. It's time to make the network the Internet and not CBS/NBC/ABC

[PXTPXT]

I am learning about this topic from all your comments and it sounds like the key to successful Apple TV DVR is to make a feature set that the cable providers and content providers would want users to have access to. Perhaps this could be compared to the iTunes music system.

If Apple DRM'd the recordings they could offer some interesting services.
- Record a show from cable, watch it when you like, but only once.
- Record a show as above, pay a premium to strip adverts from the copy.
- Record the show and keep, like a rent or buy.

Before you hate me, the positive side of keeping the other companies happy is that they might be willing to play along. Perhaps the cable providers would allow the Apple TV to control the cable box. Then Apple don't have to provide tuners etc, just the HD inputs while giving you that elusive single controller. The providers might then allow access to the TV scheduling feed and you could have quite a nice interface running with all kinds of programmable features and a nice Apple interface.

Unrealistic?

By the way, what would you pay for ad-free...
BBC costs $278 per year, 100% ad-free.
Two (main) channels, so $139 each.
365 days a year, so $0.38 cents per day.
Say 16 hours of daytime, so about 2.5 cents per hour of ad-free TV.
Oversimplified, but you get the picture.

So what would you have to pay per episode of Lost, etc? Would you pay?

[bjojade]

I like the concept of the AppleTV. However, I found that a Mac Mini was a better solution. Lack of DVD playback was a major feature missing in the AppleTV. I didn't want a 2nd device there for that. I didn't want the hassle of ripping movies either.
For a TV tuner, the Elgato EyeTV works pretty well.
Now, the sucky thing is that Apple added features to AppleTV that aren't in front row, such as HD movie rentals and actually using front row to access the movie store.

[SpinThis!]

The problem with the current AppleTV is it's underpowered for HD. Even if Apple could add DVR functionality, you would probably be only to time-shift SDTV content. There's been some folks running EyeTV on hacked AppleTV and can pretty much confirm this. It's choppy at best. That said, better access to the native hardware might help this a bit.

What Apple needs to do is allow 3rd parties access to the box, a la the iPhone. That neatly steps around the "we're the bad, anti-advertising guy" DVR issue?I'm sure companies like Elgato would love to be able to be officially develop a solution. And the HDHomeRun is an ideal device?it doesn't suck up a PCI or usb slot (it runs over Ethernet).