[Steve_S]

tallscot said:

>I'm not sure how you would be able to do something like shoot a wedding with a 45min (or less) build in storage limitation.

I'm not sure what you are talking about there. At the LP mode, the 32 gig HF11 stores 12 hours 15 minutes. At the highest quality mode (MXP), it stores 2 hours 55 minutes.

Yeah, my mistake... misread the hours for minutes.

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Adding hours of time to do a simple edit is definitely a show stopper for me. No problem, I'll just transfer the AVCHD files over quickly and not edit them. It's just a hobby. OK, now what? How do I watch them? LOL!

It's also typically a one time process (per video clip). Yes, importing is slow, everybody knows that. Most of us are capable of multitasking though. Somehow, I can't help but imagine you just sitting there by your computer with a blank stare as puddle of drool forms below as you wait for your import to finish and are incapable of doing something else. ;-)

Also, if instant gratification is needed, I'd imagine that's what the HDMI port on the camcorder is for.

[tallscot]

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Yeah, my mistake... misread the hours for minutes.

Yes, once again you delve into an argument without knowing what the hell you are talking about.

And you also completely ignored the memory cards when you made your ignorant statement.

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It's also typically a one time process (per video clip).

Of course it is.

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Yes, importing is slow, everybody knows that.

Importing with these camcorders is 2X slower than importing with DV, and many people don't know that and, more importantly, the reviews on this site don't mention it either. And after you are done editing, exporting it out is many times slower than DV and many people don't know that and the reviews on this site don't mention it either.

That is the reason for mentioning it on this forum, Steve.

>I can't help but imagine you just sitting there by your computer with a blank stare as puddle of drool forms below as you wait for your import to finish and are incapable of doing something else.

This coming from the guy who thought you could only record 45 minutes with a 120 gig hard drive camcorder.

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Also, if instant gratification is needed, I'd imagine that's what the HDMI port on the camcorder is for.

You are only exposing more of your ignorance on this topic. Yes, you can connect the camcorder to watch your movies that are on the hard drive of the camcorder. Of course, the hard drive fills up and you need to transfer those movies to the Mac.

This current solution from Apple with AVCHD is a giant step backwards from DV and Apple apologists like you can't mitigate that fact. But you like to argue so much, you are arguing something you have shown us you know nothing about (once again) and you are arguing both sides (again) because you already said you agree that Apple should have native support for AVCHD.

Once again, you waste my time.

[tallscot]

ramblingman said:

The prices for these toys, toys which are supposedly consumer-grade, seem a bit steep.

Does anyone have any idea if there's a useful system in place to backup video data to some storage medium so it can be accessed and edited at a later date? If so, how?

I'm not quite sure where the "toys" comment comes from considering the image quality and features of these camcorders.

You back up the video just like you back up any other file on your Mac.

[tallscot]

ramblingman said:

Another comment:

I note that the article doesn't discuss if these new camcorders are compatible with iMovie, Final Cut Express, or Final Cut Pro, etc.

Any clues?

This is the problem with MacWorld reviews on these AVCHD camcorders. They aren't painting the complete picture.

AVCHD camcorders aren't supported natively by Apple. The applications convert the movies into something else when it imports, which is very time consuming. You then have to convert it to something else if you want to watch the movies on your Apple TV or play it off of disc.

With DV, the applications support DV natively so the video comes in as DV and goes out as DV after you edit it. You aren't required to transcode it into any other codec. You edit in the native codec. So importing it takes as long as the footage is ? 1 hour of footage takes 1 hour to import.

These hard drive-based camcorders, however, act more like an iPod than DV in that it records to the hard drive. This allows you to view specific clips instantly on your camcorder by jumping to specific takes without having to FF or RR tape, much like jumping to a specific song of an album on an iPod. This is playback on the camcorder I'm talking about. You see thumbnails on the display of each take. It's very cool.

Also, recording files to the hard drive allows you to import your video very quickly by transferring the movies as files over USB2 much like copying the movie files from one hard drive to another. Again, this is like an iPod when you transfer songs. So instead of waiting 1 hour to import 1 hour of DV footage (real time), you just wait a few minutes as it transfers the files from one hard drive to another.

That's how it is supposed to work. That's not how it works on the Mac, though, since Apple doesn't support AVCHD. What it does on the Mac is it converts the AVCHD to a different codec (Apple Intermediate Codec) that Apple supports as you import it. So instead of it taking just a few minutes to copy over your movie files, it takes ~2X as long as the footage. This speed is based on the speed of your Mac as it transcodes on import. So DV takes 1 hour to import for 1 hour of footage. AVCHD, on the Mac, takes 2 hours for 1 hour of footage.

So what do you do with your edited Apple Intermediate Codec movie when you are done? Can you stream it to your Apple TV? Can you burn it to disc and play it on a player? Nope. You have to convert it, yet again, to a codec supported by the Apple TV or player. Have you ever converted a 1 hour movie to H.264 or MPEG4 or MPEG2? It takes hours. With DV, it takes 1 hour to output back out to tape a 1 hour movie.

There is a 3rd party application that lets you stream AVCHD to a number of different media extenders out there (not the Apple TV since it doesn't support it). These media extenders include the PS3 and Xbox 360. It's called PVConnect. I haven't used it though, so I can't vouch it. So you would transfer over your movies as files in minutes, not edit them, and then stream them to your media center from your hard drive on your Mac with a compatible media extender.

http://www.packetvid...nect/index.html

Right now, Windows has the better AVCHD solution because it's native end-to-end, much like DV in iMovie.

Some Mac zealots think that it's no big deal to wait 2X the footage on import and then wait 3-5X the footage to encode it to make it viewable. They can't stand anyone criticizing their beloved Apple.

[Steve_S]

tallscot said:

> Yeah, my mistake... misread the hours for minutes.

Yes, once again you delve into an argument without knowing what the hell you are talking about.

LOL! Wow, maybe you need to take some anger management classes... Seriously, I acknowledged that I misread a spec in the original article and you try to twist that into something much larger??? Wow, you have real issues... Though, I am flattered that you get all hot and bothered my posts... please... continue... ;-)

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> Yes, importing is slow, everybody knows that.

Importing with these camcorders is 2X slower than importing with DV,

Oh look, more lessons from captain obvious... This is a known issue and the arrogance you display here is simply stunning. You somehow feel the author of such articles should be compelled to repeat things that are commonly understood. Amazing.

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> Also, if instant gratification is needed, I'd imagine that's what the HDMI port on the camcorder is for.

You are only exposing more of your ignorance on this topic. Yes, you can connect the camcorder to watch your movies that are on the hard drive of the camcorder.

LOL! Great, call me ignorant, then go on to confirm exactly what I said. Really, the entertainment value of your posts are truly priceless. I can hardly wait for your next post! ;-)

[JakeT]

tallscot said:

> You're going to put them on your hard drive, edit them down to something watchable, then export your finished product to H.264 and watch them on your AppleTV!

No I'm not. I have no time to do all that. It takes hours just to import that damn thing as it encodes it in AIC, hours more to export in H.264.

Here's a thought –A why doesn't Apple support AVCHD so I can just transfer the movies over much like I transfer songs from my iPod?

Why doesn't Cannon and others save the video to H.264 files. Then they can be copied over to the Mac like you do with songs. I have a Sanyo that does that. It also gives me the choice of 1080i or 720p.

AVCHD was designed for DVD and Blu-ray, which has taken so long to come out that it's already obsolete.

[tejastiger]

Compatibility thats the Bottom line, the gizmo that is all things to all usually spreads so thin it's transparent. Anyway how long before Blue-Rays obsolete and on to the next format ? 6 years, maybe 7.5 at the absolute longest.