[mdawson]

yawn

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jman3001 said:

> For the average user, they get the benefit of having a system with UNIX at its core and hardware/software integration that no Wintel PC can match because Apple makes both. That places Apple in the unique position of being able to test each iteration of OS X on every single piece of hardware on which that version of OS X is to be compatible instead of a (hopefully) representative small sample group.
>

Well, from my hands-on experience, OS X runs equally well on a Mac or a PC. UNIX doesn't seem to mind which computer it's on. The idea that Apple has to oversee the compatibility between the machine and the OS in order for OS X to perform properly is proving (on a daily basis) to be a bit of a sham.

Sure, and lets see... What video card is on your Psystar? Just wondering who wrote the drivers for it. Did Psystar do that?

[jman3001]

nVidia writes the drivers for their video cards and it has nothing to do with Apple. Compatibility is derived from the marriage of the program in this case UNIX with the machine in this case a PC. It doesn't matter whether it's Psystar or some other box, OS X will run just fine once the machine recognizes the OS.

My Mac G5 is still in the shop (bad Logic board; doubt it will ever be repaired), and the Mac Pro 8-Core still has kernal panics when waking from sleep, unscheduled start-ups, and shutdown failures. Interesting marriage between Apple hardware and their own OS.

in the meantime, the Psystar machine was just updated to OS 10.5.5 and living happily with error free computing. It "Just Works".

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jman3001 said:

nVidia writes the drivers for their video cards and it has nothing to do with Apple. Compatibility is derived from the marriage of the program in this case UNIX with the machine in this case a PC. It doesn't matter whether it's Psystar or some other box, OS X will run just fine once the machine recognizes the OS.

Wrong! nVidia does not wright the drivers for Macintosh compatible video cards. Apple does. You should have let it go a long time ago, but you keep on coming back with not only unsubstantiated statements, but also blatant lies and erroneous statements.

Please go to nVidia web site and locate where I could download an OSX compatible driver for one of their cards. You will not be able to find any, because they don't develop them, Apple does, and they are included on the Leopard install disk that they are illegally distributing. You can download drivers for Soliris, Windows, Linux and Free BSD, but no OSX

You know how to update the driver for a video card on a Mac?, the answer is, installing the latest OS patch, thats how. Ever wondered why you can't download individual OSX drivers on Apple's web site? Now you know why.

Quote

My Mac G5 is still in the shop (bad Logic board; doubt it will ever be repaired), and the Mac Pro 8-Core still has kernal panics when waking from sleep, unscheduled start-ups, and shutdown failures. Interesting marriage between Apple hardware and their own OS.

in the meantime, the Psystar machine was just updated to OS 10.5.5 and living happily with error free computing. It "Just Works".

I really could care less how your Psystar machine is running or what illicit patch you have running on it, what I do care is that Apple defends it self from these parasitic leaches that want to wrongfully cash in on the hard work of others, and more importantly, squash the precedent that could unfortunately arise from these knaiving legal dealings that if left unabated, could in essence degrade Apple's ability of further developing OSX.

[jman3001]

I stand corrected. Apple is offering a couple of nVidia cards for their Mac Pro. Since the ATi cards were so unpredictable on the G5, I guess it makes sense for them to include them. I'm sure the card maker does most of the support for their drivers, but the driver must be implemented inside the OS. So, technically Apple includes the driver. If you ever update your card you'll go to the manufacturer and not Apple for support.

Speaking of support. Let's take a look at the Apple Support you can expect from Apple:

Another Happy MacBook Pro Owner:

Yesterday I had my worst experiences with Applecare to date. I had bought a 15-inch MacBook Pro specifically to move off my aging IBM A31P Thinkpad, and run WinXP on the Mac laptop. Since Parallels looked dense and formidable, I decided to simply install Bootcamp. Came time to install the Windows drivers for the Mac hardware (network card, etc), and the bottom fell out. I first used the original Mac OS Leopard install CD (10.5) instead of the CD that came with the laptop (10.5.2) for the drivers, and the installation crashed miserably. Another attempt with the other CD allowed Windows to appear. But no internet, no wireless. No way. Which led to calling Applecare.

The agent who came on said that neither he nor anyone else there was knowledgeable on the problem, and that I would have to call Microsoft for answers. He offered me the main MS phone number and directed me to the MS homepage. Sorry, we don't do Windows. I said that it was the Apple Bootcamp install that apparently failed, but he pointed out that because the Mac side of the laptop could in fact connect to the internet via my Airport base station, he and his team were exonerated. Bye.

So, after a long and highly professional conversation with a Microsoft support agent (in Morocco, I think), we came to the conclusion that the wireless and wired drivers were either corrupt or missing from the Windows/Bootcamp installation. He found me URLs for the specific pieces of hardware on the Mac which led to a download of the proper Windows device drivers. Moreover, Microsoft support certainly shines in this experience.

Another Happy Apple customer:

I got the same treatment last night. After a twenty minute hold, the AppleCare agent (in India, I think) listened to my problem with my iPod Touch and MobileMe, consulted for a long time with someone else, and finally presented the solution - we don't support MobileMe - visit the Apple support website. Thank you AppleCare for such wonderful service, I'm certainly glad I sprung for the AppleCare protection plan for the iPod!

Eddie (name withheld)
The support at the iTunes store has officially crossed the line into ridiculous territory.

I recently purchased 3 cartoons for my kids. Two downloaded with no issue, one kept stopping with an 8008 error.
I Googled the error and went right to an Apple.com discussion board and found, lo and behold, a customer with the same error on the same cartoon file!

I still did my usual quick troubleshooting: restarted, PRAM, different account. I am pretty sure there is a problem with the file and said as much in my email to support. Also told them of discussion board post.
Here is the insanely complicated and time-consuming response I got-- for a $1.99 download!

I understand that you have been receiving an error 8008 when you try to download the video "Banned from the Stand / Creme Puff Hands" in your download queue. I know you must be eager to have this issue resolved. My name is Philip and I will be assisting you today.

There are a few things that I would like you to try.

Certain types of software can cause conflicts and prevent purchases from downloading properly, even if the software appears to be configured to allow full access to the iTunes Store. This can include firewall, virus-protection, and web-acceleration software.

After temporarily disabling any security software you may be using, try choosing Check for Purchases from the Store menu three times in a row. You may be asked to enter your login information each time. Checking for purchases multiple times can help to force the downloads to start. If the purchases download successfully while your security software is disabled, you might consider checking to see if your security software has any recent updates that you can install.
If you still can't download the items after choosing Check for Purchases three times, please follow the suggestions in this article:

Unable to download purchased videos
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1566
If the suggestions above don't help you to download your purchased items, I suggest testing to see if this issue occurs while you are signed in to a new user account on your computer. To learn how to create a new user account in Mac OS X, please read this article:

Adding a new user account to your computer
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.4/en/mh168.html
Once you are signed in to this new user account, open iTunes and start the download. If the download progresses without error, you will know that the original issue is with the particular user account that you were using. You may want to consider adopting this new account as your user account and transferring your files from the old account to your new one.
If signing in to a new user account does not resolve the issue, I suggest that you sign back in to your original user account and follow the instructions in this article:

Mac OS X: How to troubleshoot a software issue
http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n25398
Alternatively, if the issue persists, you might consider downloading the item from another computer or location and transferring the file back to your original computer.
If you are still unable to download the items after following these suggestions, please reply to let me know.

I hope I was instrumental in resolving the issue. We Thank You for your continuing support of Apple. Have a nice day.

Yeah; I am gonna migrate all my files into a new user account,all for a $1.99 cartoon! I did try a number of the other suggestions, to no avail. They just need to get up off of my $1.99.

Now that's support.

As far as my personal experience with my Mac Pro 8-Core, I can say it works.......sometimes. Apple Support in India did nothing to resolve the anomalies in my $3000 Mac. My problems are clearly hardware caused. Everything installed, (hard drives and RAM) are perfect. Remove PCIe cards and the problems are still there. So, it's simply the machine.

Universal Audio released their new update, but it hasn't solved the problems with the flaky way Logic Pro reacts to the UAD-1 and UAD-2 cards. The new cards were supposed to work perfectly and they do if you use a Quad-Core Mac, but using an 8-Core Mac is a disaster. The sad part is that this will probably NEVER be resolved. It never was with the G5s.

It seems as though Apple is in such a hurry to release the impressive new machine, they fail to really make sure the machine will perform properly in a variety of situations. Your machine MAY work with the tools you use or it may not perform correctly at all. It may not even shutdown or sleep properly.

It's called a crap-shoot computer company. And if you happen to get one of the bad ones (which I have twice in a row) you will never get any decent support.

Apple should LOVE the fact that their OS is running well on a computer, even if it's a PC.

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More anecdotal crap.

Refute this:

ACSI: Apple, Google Surge in Customer Satisfaction.

>The personal computer industry suffers a second consecutive drop in satisfaction, falling 1% to 74 and losing all gains made since 2005. Apple defies the industry by moving in the opposite direction and posting its largest gain ever to 85, a new all-time high for the industry. The 8% leap puts 10 points between Apple and its nearest rival, one of the largest gaps between first and second in any industry measured by ACSI. As Apple?s satisfaction improves, so too have its sales, market share, net income, and stock price. ?It?s hard not to be impressed with Apple,? said Prof. Fornell. ?This is product extension at its best where the new products, iPod and iPhone, are helping bring new customers to existing computer products. The fact that Apple is not dependent on the Windows Vista operating system hasn?t hurt either.?
>
>The industry aggregate decline is largely for Windows-based machines ?Hewlett-Packard (73), Gateway (72), and Compaq (70) each sink 4%. The exception is Dell ? up 1% to 75.

This was an excerpt from American Customer Satisfaction Index.

85%, New record for the industry. Now you see how unlucky you really are. I have had over 12 Macs, not one has ever felid from major components, excluding hard drives. Not one!

[jman3001]

Nice article, written by a company to give a statistic to make Apple look good. Based on talking to whom? Not me, that's for sure. Unfortunately, when you actually talk to people that own Macs, that percentage is wrong. Of course, PCs have more problems. They are 95% of the market. Apple is 5% and they still can't make computers reliable. And my problem is not that some of their computers don't work properly, it's the idea, that you have to jump through a thousand hoops to get one repaired or replaced.

Apple won't even admit when they've sold you a lemon. Maybe that's how they can falsify those percentages.

If their Apple computers are THAT good, then bring on the PCs running OS X. No one will want the troublesome PCs; they'll all buy the perfect running Macs......for a lot more money. hahahaha!

Then we hear the argument that Apple will go broke if they actually have to license their OS to non-mac computers.......Bill Gates is still the richest man in America, and has never sold one computer. He only licenses his OS.

Hello.....Apple gets paid for every OS X package they sell. There's more than enough money there to make Apple grow. OS X has already gone through R&D. I guess the future for Apple is to develop and bloat OS X to even greater gigabytes until it gets to be "Vista". What a joke!!!

Go ahead try to bury Psystar. There are thousands of other PCs that can run OS X, and that's Apple's fault for becoming too much like a Windoze product. Macs now have almost all the same parts as a PC. Apple changed their software and hardware to compete with the PC market and have subsequently become so close to to the Wintel/PC product that PCs can easily run the Apple OS. The R&D involved becoming a PC, apparently.

Hey Apple, go back to OS 9. Nobody wanted to run that piece of crap. Then, you won't have to worry anymore about your precious OS.

Apple is a monopoly, and they are making a lot of money off of hording their OS for only their over-priced machines. Some zealots will never look at the real picture. Other mac loyalists will wake-up and see what a farce this all is.

[mdawson]

You can keep posting the same bull as much as you want jman3001 and it still does not change the fact that you are completely wrong. Every bit of FUD you keep spewing has been definitively refuted countless times over and yet you keep on posting the same unsubstantiated tripe as if it is fact.

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Sure you where counted, you are in the 15% of dissatisfied customers :-)
Me and mdawson are comfortably in the 85%, I wonder why Psystar didn't figure in to the statistics. I guess they need to sell at least 3 computers to be even considered.

[jman3001]

Sorry, Sarah Palin wannabes, my information is based on experience, not rhetoric. A person that has used Apple products for 20 years no longer likes Apple. Not a good sign for Apple at all. And I'm justified, because of the 20+ Macs I've owned for my studio over half have ended up in the shop or sent back to Apple for replacement. If such a high percentage of love is out there for the Mac, why do we see soooo many users that continue to flood the Newsgroups, Mac Forums, and Apple support? In fact, the general consensus is that Apple support is simply too overwhelmed with problems to properly handle all of them. Since when do people have to make appointments with a Mac Genius? Today, that's the standard. You need to make an appointment to figure out why your Mac doesn't work.

Apple is not rich from making computers. They got rich selling overpriced iPods and iPhones. They could also get rich from selling their OS, which loves PCs, because it is so much like PC software at it's core.

More facts for the trolls: If Psystar only sold 3 computers, there would be no Apple lawsuit. Apple just had the curtain pulled on their rip-off game and they're sore losers, hence the lawsuit.

So, let's talk about satisfaction. Psystar has 100% satisfaction based on reports coming from the Forums, Newsgroups, and Support. That's 15% higher than Apple's satisfaction report. That's how stupid satisfaction reports are.

Yes, I make the Apple trolls nervous, even if they are still in High School.

[mdawson]

Yawn

[lancedhay]

You're a complete idiot jman3001. If apple's products are so bad then why would you continue to buy their stuff for 20 years. Because you're a idiot. Why do people flood the web with complaints? Because when the stuff they buy works you don't hear from thme about it. Only people with problems give feedback. Anyone wioth half a brain I their head knows this but not you because you're a idiot. You actually believe that a company is profitable due to the sales of products that cost a lot less than what they have been selling successfully for 30 years because you're an idiot. You refer to people backing Apple on an Apple enthusiats forum trolls becuae you are the troll talking trash and an idiot.
Then to put icing on your already fallen cake you try to compare the satisfaction rating of a company that has never been rated and has sold maybe 100 computers illegally running apple's os to a company that has sold hundreds of millions of computers over decades and been rated the highest in customer satisfaction for years. That is not only a completlety invalid copmparison but further proof that you are a idiot. There is not a company on the planet that has a 100% satisfaction rating.
To the moderators: I'm sorry if this post seems too harsh but this guy needs to be put in his place. He has long since gone past having an opinion and is jkust outright posting lies. If anything has shown me the error of my ways in harshly judging Mac users as irrational fanatics it has been this clowns posts. jman's BS sickens me as a PC user s o I can imagine how much the others are infuriated by his crap.

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Do you even know what the word precedent means? Look it up, it will enlighten you about Apple's motivation to sue Psystar.

Believe me, it has nothing to do with the miniscule amount of computers these illicit perpetrators have peddled. These guys don't even figure in the market share radar. Who is their customer base, the 15% of dissatisfied Apple customers. But of this percentage, how many are dissatisfied with MobleMe, or Time Capsule, or an iPod, or a RAM purchase?

All your arguments through out multiple posts (36), have been squashed, yet you are relentlessly continuing your shallow arguments.

[mdawson]

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Grapho wrote:

>

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Do you even know what the word precedent means?

Grapho I do not think that this guy know what anything means.

? He categorically mentions Apple?s 5 percent market share and then turns around and refers to them as a monopoly in the same post.
? He is referring to us as trolls when he is the one coming on to a forum for Mac users inciting people; hell he has seemingly even upset someone that does not even use a Mac.
? He clearly does not understand the concept of business model if he thinks that a hardware company can just abandon their roots and compete against the world?s largest OS developer as a software company.

The only thing jman3001 understands is his own selfish desires.