[Grapho]

One more point is that the two cases are totally and absolutely unrelated. One is to protect consumers from not being able to use their iPhone on a deferent network after you two year contract is over. This case has some merit, for obvious reasons of consumer protection. Apple should come out with a device to unlock two year old iPhones to be used with other networks.

The other case, we all know what it's about, except jman3001, who seems perpetually delusional.

Attempting to link both cases together is simply one more futile attempt of jman3001 to try, once more, to prove his delusional position.

Give it up already.

[derekc]

"Apple wants every consumer that buys an Apple product to pay through the nose for the privilege. That's something the courts are liable to look down on, as Apple continues to dig a deeper and deeper hole for itself."

fud fud fud fud
Fud Fud Fud Fud
FUD FUD FUD FUD
F U D F U D F U D F U D

Now is the time at MacWorld Forums when we spew:

: - Q

. . . "PSYSTAR!!!"
Did I scare you?

Oh, the SHOCK AND AWE of it all.
(If you're very quiet, maybe they won't hear you).
Psystar is coming to GET YOU!
Happy Halloween children...
It may be your last.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[jman3001]

Monopoly: exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices.
Hummmm, apparently no one here has ever read a dictionary.
PS: I'm not griping; I'm informing.
I own Macs and a Psystar machine. I'm the only one here that can say that. So, everyone else is speaking out without any real knowledge of the product, and without any specifics, except to drone on about how Apple can do what ever they want and everyone else can go to hell.
I know exactly how well OS X runs on a PC. I'm doing fine with my OS X PC and the rest of the Mac Fan-boys are afraid that someone has shot a big hole in the Apple product line and showed the world what Apple is really all about. Control and Manipulation of the marketplace.
IOW, a Monopoly.
The entire world is sinking into a depression and yet Apple thinks they will continue to overcharge and control their market by not allowing anyone else the opportunity to deliver OS X on another machine for a reasonable price. At this point, that is simply arrogant elitism.
Guess what, Apple will unveil a laptop for under $1000. I wonder why? Since all there other laptops were so expensive. Must just be a fluke.......or are they starting to realize that everyone is on to the game.......interesting. Can a desktop for under $1000 be far behind?
And all of this proves...........my statements were right on the money.........literally.
So, party on Wayne and Garth, the rest of the world is catching on.

[dbutenhof]

jman3001 said:

Monopoly: exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices.

Hummmm, apparently no one here has ever read a dictionary.

PS: I'm not griping; I'm informing.

No, "informing" requires sharing of information. You have no information, or at least if you do, you're not sharing it. What you have is gripes; and you're sharing those liberally. You have a right to opinions, and even to share them. However you should understand that they're opinions and not facts. This is a distinction that appears to escape you entirely.

Nobody's arguing with your definition of monopoly; merely with the fact that you're completely misrepresenting the market in which Apple competes. Apple cannot be a monopoly with a 5% share of the market. The fact that you consistently try to define "Apple computer" as "a market" is simple ignorance. Apple's market is no more "computers sold by Apple running Mac OS X" than Nikon's market is "cameras and lenses made by Nikon".

Quote

I own Macs and a Psystar machine. I'm the only one here that can say that. So, everyone else is speaking out without any real knowledge of the product, and without any specifics, except to drone on about how Apple can do what ever they want and everyone else can go to hell.

The problem is that you have no idea at all what you're talking about.

By your definition, you are a monopoly, and that gives me the right to tell you what to do. So stop being you, and be quiet. (I realize, you're going to think that sounds silly. That's the point. It's precisely what you've been saying this entire time, just with more rational translations of your inaccurate terminology and unrealistic viewpoints.)

[Grapho]

Right on.
The problem with jman3001 is that he is totally subscribing to Psystar unfounded counter suite. I am glad he is not the judge on this case. You are right, by Psystar's definition of monopoly, PS3 has a monopoly, XBox 360 has a monopoly, Nintendo Wii has a monopoly.

jman3001 do you start to see a pattern?

[mdawson]

Quote

jman3001 wrote:

>

Quote

Monopoly: exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices.

>

Quote

Hummmm, apparently no one here has ever read a dictionary.

And maybe you need to learn the difference between a legal definition and a dictionary definition. Your strict misinterpretation of that dictionary definition makes a brand a monopoly. Therefore, every single company on the planet is a monopoly because they control their brand. Secondly, there is the stipulation of ?control that makes possible the manipulation of prices?. Apple cannot manipulate the price of products in the personal computer market.

Of course the ultimate problem with your position is that you refuse to acknowledge that Apple is a single player in the personal computer market. There is no such thing as An Apple market or a Mac market. The largest entity defined as ?Mac? is the Macintosh platform that is still a subset of the personal computer market; it just happens to be a platform wholly owned by Apple. The Mac platform is Apple?s brand and Apple has the right to set whatever market price they choose for Macs and let the buying public decide if they are willing purchase those systems. Apple?s pricings have zero impact on the rest of the personal computer market.

Sony has the right to set the market price their XBR brand of TVs and Toyota has the right to set the price for any given Lexus. By your definition of a monopoly, Sony and Toyota have respective monopolies in the XBR and Lexus markets, which is patently false because XBR and Lexus, like the Mac, are brands and not markets. You need to pull your head out of Psystar?s anus, get past your selfish desire to have a quality product for nothing and learn the difference between a market, platform and brand.

Quote

jman3001 wrote:

>

Quote

I'm not griping; I'm informing.

No, you are spreading FUD and misinformation and are therefore trolling.

jman3001 wrote:
>
I own Macs and a Psystar machine. I'm the only one here that can say that. So, everyone else is speaking out without any real knowledge of the product, and without any specifics, except to drone on about how Apple can do what ever they want and everyone else can go to hell.

We no more have to own a Psystar system to know that open licensing for OS X will negatively impact Apple than we have to place our hands in an open flame to know we will get burned. For the hundredth time, Apple already went down that path once and nothing good came of it. Open licensing of OS X is not compatible with Apple?s business model, but you clearly do not understand the concept of a business model either.

jman3001 wrote:
>
I know exactly how well OS X runs on a PC. I'm doing fine with my OS X PC and the rest of the Mac Fan-boys are afraid that someone has shot a big hole in the Apple product line and showed the world what Apple is really all about. Control and Manipulation of the marketplace.

And maybe trolls like you need to stop thinking that the way the Wintel platform operates should be universal. As has been noted umpteen times in this thread, Apple has a 5 percent market share so they cannot control or manipulate anything beyond their brand, and Apple has every legal right to do with their brand as they see fit.

jman3001 wrote:
>
The entire world is sinking into a depression and yet Apple thinks they will continue to overcharge and control their market by not allowing anyone else the opportunity to deliver OS X on another machine for a reasonable price. At this point, that is simply arrogant elitism.

Right. So,
bq. realtors should sell million dollar homes for $100,000; BMW, Mercedes, et al., should sell their vehicles for under $20K; Rolex should sell their watches in drug stores and Wal-Mart at prices comparable to Timex; Lacie, NEC and Eizo should start selling their professional displays at the same price point as those you buy at Staples, Office Max, et al, and; first-class tickets should be reduced to price of coach
because the world is sinking into depression. You have proven in one sentence that you have no grasp of reality.

[jman3001]

Since when can an Apple computer be compared to a “Mercedes”? You're lucky if the damn thing even works out of the box (as evident in my last 3 Mac Towers). Apple is still replacing G5 Towers due to faulty coolant leaks. The MacBook Pro laptops are having severe graphic card problems with both Nvidia and ATI cards. My Mac Pro is still "Buggy" with failed shutdowns and kernal panics when waking from sleep. When you spend $3000 on a computer, it should "just work".

Reports from Psystar owners are saying that the Psystar "Open Pro" Quads are performing as well as the 8-Core Macs. On paper this is wrong, but in reality it is correct. This is because the Apple OS and most of the available software really can't take advantage of the 8-Core processing. In reality, your computer will very rarely even use more than 4 gigs of RAM. I'm still waiting for Logic Pro to be a true 64 bit program that will properly use more than 4 gigs of RAM. (Maybe you can use more processing and RAM with 3D rendering. Sorry, very few people make their living as graphic design artists. And a lot of graphics artists use PCs, anyway).

A multimillion dollar home could drop millions on the market, we see that every day. And since we're talking money, the Golden Goose has stolen another egg from Apple.

I can't believe what I'm reading. All across the Web, reporters are saying that at Apple's press event next week, the company will unveil an $800 Mac to appeal to those looking to spend less on an Apple computer.

Anyone who has followed Apple since its inception knows that the very idea that Apple could actually compete on the same level as its competitors on price is a shocker. For years, the company has wanted to be considered a boutique vendor that doesn't submit to price leadership to sell units.

You can't drop prices unless there is a cushion to begin with. AKA; Overpriced. Just like with the iPhone and the iPod. The "Boutique Vendor" now needs to rethink the game.

If Apple wanted to keep their OS off the PC, then it would simply involve using parts and code that didn't like PC machines. That's not what Apple has done. Apple has continually gone toward the PC in parts, as well as using "Open" code, to the point that the Apple OS runs very nicely on a PC.

It's been a nice con job in the past, but in the future Apple will have to find its place in the market. My suggestion is play nice with the PC makers, or lower your prices so that the public can afford your machine.

Looks like Apple is listening to guys like me, instead of the condescending crowd that frequents this Blog to insult the people that really know what's going on in the world.

The delusional people live in the past, and fail to look into the future. Open your minds and say, "Ah".

[vulpine]

jman3001 said:

Since when can an Apple computer be compared to a “Mercedes”? You're lucky if the damn thing even works out of the box (as evident in my last 3 Mac Towers). Apple is still replacing G5 Towers due to faulty coolant leaks. The MacBook Pro laptops are having severe graphic card problems with both Nvidia and ATI cards. My Mac Pro is still "Buggy" with failed shutdowns and kernal panics when waking from sleep. When you spend $3000 on a computer, it should "just work".

You keep harping about how bad (your supposed) G5 tower is and claim a rediculously high repair charge, now you claim they can't fix it at all. You have, through your own ranting, made it impossible for any reasonable reader here to believe you even own any of the machines you claim.

Quote

Reports from Psystar owners are saying that the Psystar "Open Pro" Quads are performing as well as the 8-Core Macs. On paper this is wrong, but in reality it is correct. This is because the Apple OS and most of the available software really can't take advantage of the 8-Core processing. In reality, your computer will very rarely even use more than 4 gigs of RAM. I'm still waiting for Logic Pro to be a true 64 bit program that will properly use more than 4 gigs of RAM. (Maybe you can use more processing and RAM with 3D rendering. Sorry, very few people make their living as graphic design artists. And a lot of graphics artists use PCs, anyway).

You claim there are published reports of this 'solid performance' of the psystars. Yet you provide no evidence but your own word, which, on this board, has become highly suspect. How about giving us some verifiable proof of this praise? Why haven't we seen these users touting their computers in a public forum? And don't use yourself as an example; you've already lost any chance of anyone believing you without proof.

Quote

A multimillion dollar home could drop millions on the market, we see that every day. And since we're talking money, the Golden Goose has stolen another egg from Apple.

I can't believe what I'm reading. All across the Web, reporters are saying that at Apple's press event next week, the company will unveil an $800 Mac to appeal to those looking to spend less on an Apple computer.

Anyone who has followed Apple since its inception knows that the very idea that Apple could actually compete on the same level as its competitors on price is a shocker. For years, the company has wanted to be considered a boutique vendor that doesn't submit to price leadership to sell units.

You can't drop prices unless there is a cushion to begin with. AKA; Overpriced. Just like with the iPhone and the iPod. The "Boutique Vendor" now needs to rethink the game.

If Apple wanted to keep their OS off the PC, then it would simply involve using parts and code that didn't like PC machines. That's not what Apple has done. Apple has continually gone toward the PC in parts, as well as using "Open" code, to the point that the Apple OS runs very nicely on a PC.

So you're telling me they don't, when Psystar is accusing them of this very tactic. Are you listening to yourself? At all?

Quote

It's been a nice con job in the past, but in the future Apple will have to find its place in the market. My suggestion is play nice with the PC makers, or lower your prices so that the public can afford your machine.

Looks like Apple is listening to guys like me, instead of the condescending crowd that frequents this Blog to insult the people that really know what's going on in the world.

I don't think so. You talk like Apple has acceded to your wishes and yet all they've done is announce that they will introduce a laptop computer in that price range; not lower the price or offer any other kind of machine other than a laptop on Tuesday.

Quote

The delusional people live in the past, and fail to look into the future. Open your minds and say, "Ah".

You first, my non-friend. Your anit-Apple zealotry (despite your facetious pro-Apple claims) have demonstrated that there are people who really think in this world, and many, many more that just blow off.

I don't know exactly what Apple will be announcing on Tuesday, but I'm expecting that Apple is about to introduce something that again changes what people believe about technology.

[jman3001]

True, the case is about the EULA that Apple has written it's monopoly policy into. Now the courts must decide whether or not the EULA is valid.

The bigger point is whether Apple can continue to run its game of "you must buy this box for more money than it's worth". Eventually the public will simply move to a less expensive alternative. Basically the public did, many years ago. This will all wash on their books, once Apple realizes that they have to change their selling policies.

Apple will either sell cheaper computers, iPhones, and iPods or they will be gone.

They already know this. That's why Apple will lower their prices in the very near future. Apple is already offering $300 off the Mac Pro 8-Core. They will introduce an $800 laptop next week. That's a start. Next they will offer a low cost tower; they pretty much have to.

Consumers simply aren't going to keep paying Apple prices for a machine that is essentially a Wintel product with an OS that has a designer GUI, and underneath is looking more and more every day like UNIX meets Windows XP.

Once again, if anyone can prove I haven't owned Macs for the last 20 years, please bring it. Otherwise you're all a bunch of pathetic liars.

[vulpine]

I don't believe it; for once you aren't ranting. However...

jman3001 said:

True, the case is about the EULA that Apple has written it's monopoly policy into. Now the courts must decide whether or not the EULA is valid.

I'm glad you've finally decided that it's the courts' say and not your own. Though again, it's not just the EULA that will decide the matter; there are copyrights involved as well, as we have mentioned many times before.

Quote

The bigger point is whether Apple can continue to run its game of "you must buy this box for more money than it's worth". Eventually the public will simply move to a less expensive alternative. Basically the public did, many years ago. This will all wash on their books, once Apple realizes that they have to change their selling policies.

And yet you continue to repeat this falsehood. Over and over and over again, we have demonstrated to you and challenged you to prove otherwise that Apple's computers are no more expensive than equivalent Windows machines. Every time you've tried to rebute this fact, we have proven that the 'less expensive model' has fallen short in at least one aspect; frequently more.

Quote

Apple will either sell cheaper computers, iPhones, and iPods or they will be gone.

No. Apple may choose to build a lower-priced model, but it will very likely either lack something that is standard equipment now, or have such a revolutionary change within that costs, once the R&D is paid for, will be significantly below previous models while maintaining Apples' repeatedly high Customer Satisfaction rating. To do any less would make them no better than their competition, and they can't afford to let their quality slip like that. To sell cheaper computers, et al, would be the death of Apple just as certainly as it was dying before Jobs returned to the reins.

Quote

They already know this. That's why Apple will lower their prices in the very near future. Apple is already offering $300 off the Mac Pro 8-Core. They will introduce an $800 laptop next week. That's a start. Next they will offer a low cost tower; they pretty much have to.

You sound like $300 off is a lot of money... on a $2300 computer or better. Based on your own statements before, that is still far, far above where you have felt they should really be priced. I will concede that older models of Apple's computers tend to have their prices dropped; but the machine that replaces it at the top invariably has the same price as its predecessor.
I really don't expect this $800 laptop to be simply a reduced price on an existing machine. I believe Apple is either reintroducing a physically-smaller model into that price range, or bringing some other new model there. Considering many of the rumor sites out, including macrumors.com, I expect it will be new construction methods lowering the cost of manufacture while perhaps increasing the durability of the product.

Quote

Consumers simply aren't going to keep paying Apple prices for a machine that is essentially a Wintel product with an OS that has a designer GUI, and underneath is looking more and more every day like UNIX meets Windows XP.

Don't even go there. You are a single person and you can only speak for yourself. While some consumers may do as you say, I really expect that Apple will continue to grow its market share by having a superior product rather than lowering themselves to their competition's level. Consumers that are looking for a reliable product (your anecdotes aside) aren't going to put up with the kind of crap the other brands have been providing.
Once again, if anyone can prove I haven't owned Macs for the last 20 years, please bring it. Otherwise you're all a bunch of pathetic liars.

No, you've complained and moaned so loudly about so many unlikely problems that you have essentially lost all credibility in your ownership of any Apple or even Psystar products. It is no longer up to us to prove you DON'T have them, but rather up to you to prove incontrovertibly that you do. I don't doubt that the problems you complain of are possible, but rather that you have received no satisfaction from a company who has built its reputation on satisfying its customers; especially considering your highly unlikely history of three dead tower Macs in a row. If this tale is true, then you must surely be the most unlucky user in the world, or go out of your way to break them. Nobody else that I have ever known or read of has had so many complaints about so many different machines sequentially... not even when that machine was a Ford automobile (whose reputation for 'quality' autos is definitely NOT stellar considering all the anagrams from the letters F.O.R.D.)

[wmckelvey]

vulpine said:

not even when that machine was a Ford automobile (whose reputation for 'quality' autos is definitely NOT stellar considering all the anagrams from the letters F.O.R.D.)

First On Race Day? ;-)

[mac_luva]

mdawson, grapho, vulpine:


Maybe you guys should stop responding to trolls?! jman3001 is most definately a troll! This guy has a hardon for Psystar.

By his own account his Psystar's work better than his Mac Pros!? I think he's full of st!

He refuses to show any proof that he even owns a real Mac, but continues to spread FUD as fast as he can type.

I want to say that my advice is: IGNORE the TROLL!

But then again, your responses are quite enlightening, so maybe you should keep smackin' him down like the whack-a-mole he is.

Ultimately its your call. I just love the way he tries to call Apple a monopoly using the dictionary definition. PRICELESS!

I guess I'm quite conflicted on this ;)

Oh well!

Happy smackin'!

[mac_luva]

BTW jman, if you're going to tell someone to spell correctly, next time type "hear" when you are talking about listening you dolt!

[mac_luva]

jman3001 wrote: "I already use PCs and I
have for years, so you have nothing on me there. I've used macs for 20
years, so you don't have me there either. I know what I'm talking about
and have given anyone that wants the truth the opportunity to here it."



Um, I think you mean the opportunity to HEAR it. So much for your lecture on spelling!!!