[DocNo]

tfrogh said:

I want the power of the iMac in a small tower capable of housing 2 SATA 3.5" Harddrives and 2 optical drives. And I want video capable of driving a 30" display and eSATA or 2 PCIe slots. I have no need for the expense of a MacPro.

I want a single CPU socket mini tower (so I don't have to use expensive and latency-prone FBDIMMs) with at least two slots so I can change out my video card. I agree, space for at least two hard drives (and I like another posters idea - make a drobo-like slot where they can pull their PC hard drive and just plug it into their new Mac mini-tower - talk about enhancing the switcher experience!)

One optical and two hard drive would be more then sufficient. I doubt there are that many people where two optical drives are paramount - and if you really need two you can always go external.

But for me, the ability to swap out the graphics card is paramount. I'm a prosumer that wants to use GPU dependent software like Aperture, but I don't want a 55 lb box that starts at $2,300 just to do photo editing on, nor do I need 8 cores and the FB DIMM overhead that comes with having two CPU sockets.

What I'm looking for is something along the lines of the old Macintosh IIcx/IIci where it can either be horizontal or vertical. There is a reason those were some of Apple's most popular classic Mac's.

As for notebooks being the growth market, I think there is enough pent up demand for a real mid-range desktop solution that a good mid-range desktop such as the above could give the MacBook line and possibly the MacBook and MacBook Pro lines a run for their money.

Heck, if Steve wants, make it a cube - just make it!

[DocNo]

Jon Seff said:

I disagree that there's a large untapped market that Apple is missing out on. I think it's a small but vocal group that wants a system that Apple just isn't looking to sell.

I don't know - anyone who's into digital photography in a big way is a perfect candidate for such a mini-tower. I think people who scoff at the xMac (as some dub it) are the delusional ones.

It's not like Apple hasn't had wildly popular mini-towers in the past - just look at the venerable Mac IIci. And if it took two of 'em to make up the price of one Pro, I'm sure they could more then make up for it in volume. I will not consider a box that starts at $2,300 just to have the flexibility in changing out my graphics card! That and the iMacs are now glossy only, so that's out for photo editing too :(

If Aperture wasn't such a GPU hog, an iMac would be sufficient. But I don't want to box myself into a non-upgradeable system if I outgrown my GPU where I have to replace everything - including the screen.

EDIT: Now that Apple is focusing on the GPU with snow leopard, perhaps they will make the iMac GPU upgradeable. The only down side to that is we will have even fewer choices then we have for video cards with the Mac Pro due to the form factor - it might be enough of a compromise but I will still prefer the flexibility of a @%#$ tower.
Message was edited by: DocNo

[moose_n_squirrel]

If Apple is holding back on the mythical mid tower, I hope it is because they are not going to give everyone exactly what they are asking for, but as usual, something better. Let me explain. I don't want a mid tower, I never know where to put those awkwardly shaped things. If I was Steve Jobs I would turn to Jonathan Ive and say, "Make me a computer with two slots, two drive bays, and killer video hardware, but make it so thin and flat so it can fit horizontally in a home entertainment center in the living room, hang against the wall, or be mounted underneath a table or desk. Like an XServe for the home." Frankly I don't even care about the slots, I have a Mac Pro with empty slots, just like 99% of the tower computers in the world. The only reason I got the Pro was for the RAM slots, drive bays, and multiple video out.

[DocNo]

moose

Frankly I don't even care about the slots, I have a Mac Pro with empty slots, just like 99% of the tower computers in the world. The only reason I got the Pro was for the RAM slots, drive bays, and multiple video out.

I think two would suffice for most - one for the video card and another for expansion. The biggest thing I want another slot for is storage. eSATA. If ZFS is indeed integrated with Snow Lepord, there is my home NAS - just chain a bunch of eSATA disks off, group them into a big ZFS storage pool and go. No hardware RAID required.

But I don't need a 50lb computer, four slots, a second CPU socket and I sure as heck don't want FB DIMMs!

As for form factor, if they made it where it could stand up or lie down, like the old Mac IIci, then you can decide where to put it - under the monitor, beside it, up against the wall, on the floor, mounted under your desk - heck, if it's small enough hang it off the back of the monitor.

Along those lines I dunno why Apple doesn't invent a "pod" format Mini that they can license (for free) the mounting receptacle to different TV manufacturers - buy an Apple compliant TV and plug your existing podified Mini into the back of it for all your home media needs... like an iPod and iPod dock on steroids... Then you could move your Mini from TV to TV as you upgrade - or change the computer from the TV if that changes first.

Heck, that could replace the iMac form factor while we are at it. Modular computer - the case becomes part of an industry standard monitor back. Power, processing and storage separate components with their own homes that can be changed out at will. Why not? That's revolutionary AND practical. Get's around the arguments the all-in-one haters have too.

Hmm....

[bobdrake]

I got an email ad on Sept 23rd that asked me if I wanted a black MacBook Air. ("It looks even smaller in in black.") While that picture may have been a fake, the invitation for the Oct 14th event as shown in the NY Times depicts a black MacBook cover. So it appears that the wish for the "black anodized" MacBook will be granted.
It makes sense that black will sell for a premium, like the black plastic MacBook. An easy way to charge an extra $200 or so.

[hansdg]

Hasn't any one looked at the notebook market lately? Prices have come down considerable for all kinds of sizes. Plus there are now mini notebooks for $500-600. Apple will have to come out with something in this segment in order to maintain its market share. So, I predict:
Macbook mini (9 inch)
Macbook 13" for around 899
Macbook Pro's w latest, fastest Intel chips and Nvidia graphics processor.

[NorthernSurvivor]

an SD card slot maybe?
or even HDMI out
Perhaps Blu-ray, or no optical drive at all.... can't be right, can it?
but a touch-screen? No.... maybe not.

[Dan Frakes]

Jon Seff said:

This argument comes up every time Apple releases anything these days. I agree with Rob that Apple probably isn't going to make a mid-range tower, but I disagree that there's a large untapped market that Apple is missing out on. I think it's a small but vocal group that wants a system that Apple just isn't looking to sell. Do you honestly think that Jobs is sitting in his lair cackling as he says "they'll buy what I tell them to buy!"? If there was (A) a big enough market to make it worthwhile and (B) it wouldn't cause Mac Pro sales to plummet, don't you think Apple would want to get in on that action?

Unlike Jon, I don't think it's a small but vocal group; I think it's a substantial group that includes not only current Mac users but also many Windows users who would switch to Mac if there was an affordable minitower (or some other headless form factor that provided modest expandability).

So I think the market is indeed big enough to make it worthwhile. I think the real problem is B: Apple is afraid that such a computer would cause Mac Pro sales to plummet.

But as I pointed out well over a year ago when I talked about the Mythical Midrange Mac Minitower, I think Apple's wrong on this one.

[spiderbat]

I wouldn't object to a two-button trackpad in future Apple notebooks, if the functionality were achieved just by using sensors, as in the mighty mouse and without physically splitting the button. Forcing all users to cope always with a two-button trackpad would be a further concession to an inferior way of computing.
BTW, such a solution could be easily expanded to simulate, optionally, also a three-button trackpad, for those who use X11 to connect with the unix/linux world.

[NorthernSurvivor]

I agree Dan, I think Apple are wrong too. They've been wrong for a long time. Too long. Sales of (all) computers are trending towards notebooks and away from desktops - You only have to stroll around your local hardware retailer to see that.

So it's probably too late for the mythical mid range midi tower mac ("A Mac" would have been a good name!). Hence all the focus on notebooks.

I too am a switcher - I replaced a Windows desktop with a top-of-the-range Mini. I liked the idea of bring your own display, keyboard and mouse; unfortunately I also had to bring a couple of external disk drives, a USB hub and an SD card reader. I have more desktop clutter than the old PC. Tidy, minimalist, no-clutter, no-wires Steve Jobs would not be impressed, I guess.

I like the mini. I'm a happy switcher, I'm so happy with it that I bought a second one. I thought about an Apple tv; but a mini is a better option. I would have bought "a Mac" if only.......

[cheato9]

I'd buy that for sure

[icerabbit]

I agree totally with Dan.

The biggest thing Apple could do to bring new users on board is release the MMMM.

Most people I talk to (99% PC users) about Macs want the computer separate from the monitor and independent repair & upgrade possibility.

Ever since the loved by many, hated by some Cube was discontinued, we have been waiting for something new mid-sized. SJ / Apple decided they had to criple and shrink it to the size of the mini. I was forced to buy a G5 because I absolutely don't want an AIO. Mine does still strong duty but other than two hard drives and filled memory slots it is still stock ... sitting like three concrete blocks next to my desk. WIth the intel technology it could al so easily fit in a cube and use two fast notebook drives (instead of one 3.5 inch)
If / when Apple decides to bring out a MMMM I am convinced I will buy one rightaway ... unless I have moved on to something else.