[dreyfus]

webraider said:

What the heck did all you guys do BEFORE we had Matted Screens. Back in the CRT days.. all the screens were glossy. Whatever you did there.. you'll simply have to do again! Stop griping and get over it.

Before anybody feels the urge to bring up this non-argument again:

- The first TFTs had worse image quality and color accuracy than high-end CRTs. They were a success anyhow because of the lack of glare. A few years back I was working for an airline department (350 people) where the staff choose the purchase of TFTs over a pay raise. Now Apple tries to sell a step back as a main innovation. It is not - it is just a step back.
- Have you ever looked into large daylight offices with many CRTs at that time. People were using all kinds of filters, add-ons, shades and whatever to make them usable. Want that back?
- CRTs (good ones) were color accurate, neither the iMac, nor the MacBook, nor the MacBook Air, nor the glossy MacBook Pro are. Contrast and blackpoint are way off on all of them - even with hardware profiling predictable prints are impossible. Or why do you think Apple silently removed all links to the (white) iMacs SWOP (soft proofing) certification when bringing out the alu model - because it is superior? Yeah!

[LouKash]

http://www.apple.com...macbookpro.html

Go tell them. Tell them what you think and what your consequences will be. Especially if you DON'T belong to the "vast majority" of glossy lovers... (I don't. Definitely.)

[BigHusky]

I couldn't agree more with the original poster and with dreyfus. It seems that if all you do is watch DVD's or play games the color vibrance might make those 'pop' more on the glossy screen.

Having had to use a MacBook on several occasions in the last year I can honestly say that a glossy screen makes the notebook nearly impossible for me to use. Yes, if you have complete control over your environment and lighting you might be able to make it work, but in many cases (most when using a laptop) you don't have any influence over the lighting, be it outside, at the airport, at the office or even in some places in your own home. Seeing myself in the screen is very distracting and I have been very happy to go back to my 15" powerbook (especially on my lazy boy in the living room, where the MacBook was nearly unusable).

I had been waiting to purchase two new laptops following today's announcements and as many here and on many other polls I will now most likely not purchase any Apple laptops, which is a very shame.

Adding to that is also the removal of the firewire port on the MacBook. We use firewire hard drives, firewire connected ipods and firewire dv cams. They are usually connected to the rear of the cinema display, which with the new ones we will also not be able to do anylonger, as they have removed the firewire ports from the new display. Not to count the target mode which has been a god send and being able to boot from firewire external drives.

Battery life has indeed staid stagnant with Apple. Were a couple of years ago they were the champions with battery life now they are falling further and further behind. So yes, in many ways we are now paying the same amount for less features and having to even spend more just to be able to achieve status quo with cable connectivities. Keeping the max memory at 4GB is not making our photoshop guy happy either.

The firewire issue with the MacBooks and the new Display would have been a major annoyance by itself but might not have prevented me of buying the new hardware, BUT, the removal of the matte option for the displays is definitely now putting the nail in the coffin for me. And yes, even if an add-on film/screen makes it bearable, that is not what I would want to again have to spend more money again after having to spend near to 3 grand just to achieve the status quo.

As many have said, our postings and feelings will not have any influence on Apple and very likely they will not come back on that decision. They didn't do it for the MacBooks and neither for the iMacs. So the only way we can let them know is with our wallet and keeping the Credit Card in there now and in the foreseeable future.

This was big enough reason for me to sign up for an account here to get my frustration out there with many same minded fellows and in the faint hope that maybe, maybe we can get enough voices out here that Apple might actually take notice that the 'vast' majority doesn't think that way (the majority maybe, but definitely not the 'vast').

Written happily on a 15' Powerbook G4 with matte screen.

BH

[wgood]

This is a non-issue for me. The screen on my current MacBook has a little bit of glare in the correct position, but about 95% of the time, I don't notice a thing... just the bright vivid colors it displays.

[Uttaradit]

>Matt screens for Pro's please Apple. At least give us the choice :)

Ditto. Not so long ago only the cheapest entry-level CRTs had glossy screens and all the pro models had good anti-reflective coatings. With Macs' long legacy as the graphics platform it is absurd that they should have standardized on the glossy screens. They might look great in the showrooms, but they are not meant for everyday use and will be widely scorned by graphics and photo professionals.

[Uttaradit]

During today's Apple event, during the Q&A section, Job said
that between product sales and user feedback, the vast
majority -- "with a capital V on Vast" -- prefer glossy.

That could imply that a significant percentage of Mac users, at least among those queried, don't really spend that much time in front of their screens. To each his own but, please, let's keep the matte option for those of us to whom that is an issue of such importance!

[myramoki]

Of course if Apple wasn't offering matte in the laptops they sold in stores, and they certainly weren't offering it on iMac and MacBook, glossy would tend to skew towards the 'preferred' choice. Like to see the real numbers if people were given real choice.

[macaddiict]

Rob - thank you for this article. I have already sent feedback (www.apple.com/feedback) to Apple regarding the necessity of a matte screen option.
Even the most recent MacBook Pro "matte" option was more glossy than my old PowerBook G4. It is like the designers at Apple never actually use their machines... for design. You can't very well check a photo for "odd reflections" or spot check the lighting on a video setup if you have glare and reflections all over your screen.
I thought I could deal with the glare and bought one of the new aluminum 24" iMacs as soon as they came out. Within a month I was begging to switch with someone in the office who had one of the much slower but MATTE white iMacs -- now that person has also played desktop roulette and has a matte screen back.
Having a glossy screen reminds me of the old CRT screens, but since we're dealing with an actual flat surface instead of a curve, it is practically a freaking mirror!

[BAMann]

Yes, yes, yes to everything you wrote. As a Mac user since 1985, I keep asking, "When will Apple cross the line?" and make me not buy another Mac? Is this it? Maybe.
Of course, I also ask, "Why does Apple HATE ME?" Yes, I'm convinced Apple hates me personally. How else can I explain the lack of a 12" model (PERFECT for travel and unobtrusive use), the loss of Firewire, and a screen designed to make you go blind?
I will keep my 12" G4 PB until it dies and in the meantime hope (ha!) that one day a GOOD Mac portable will re-appear. But I know Apple hates me, so I won't hold my breath.

[folklore]

Dan Frakes said:

>

Quote

During today's Apple event, during the Q&A section, Job said that between product sales and user feedback, the vast majority -- "with a capital V on Vast" -- prefer glossy.

Which customers? How do they "choose"? If they're "choosing" glossy because that's all that's offered on the MacBook, that's not a choice. A lot of folks can't afford the extra money to get a MBP just to avoid the glossy abomination, so if that's the "choice" that's referred to, it's complete crap.

Ultimately, glossy v. matte comes down to what you do with your computer. If you use your computer for casual photos, playing movies, games etc, then the extra "vividness" of glossy might be preferable. If, like me and lots of the posters here, you're writing and reading text all day, then that extra "pop" just isn't worth the glare and reflections. If you need accurate color rendition, glossy is a nightmare. This is why having a choice on the previous MBP made sense: while I think a glossy screen is ridiculous, I never watch movies on my laptop.

It's pretty clear from the design that glossy is the way it is. I get that. I also understand that it must be cheaper for Apple to manufacture and design just one screen type. None of that means I have to like it, though.

[heisetax]

The new 24" display gives me no compelling reason to purchase One . I already have a 23" display that will do the same & is paid for. I have a 30" model that is so much better. I've gotten used to the included FW400 ports on both models. A new 42" 3840 X 2400 display would have compelled me to make a purchase. I guess we'll have to wait until LED displays make it to the 30" size. We'll probably never see something bigger with better resolution in the near to medium range future. Manybe long term.

A glossy screen seems to be a negative by those that want true colors or the lack of use limiting glare. I like a 17" or larger model. They seemed to be at a life ending place in life. They seem to be the only choice for a Pro Mac User. The new model is just a limited cross section of the year old 17" Intel Mac Pro. That means that 17" = available matte screens, but old graphics, old speed, less options as most things are now standard. A larger hard drive comes with it but there was no 500 GB hard drive choice. More things to be done in the after market, but on a machine that is not at all User Upgradable Friendly.

Apple is killing off their long-time Mac Users in favor of poorer models that they want to attract Windows Switchers with. From the sounds of most the posts I have read the new Intel MacBooks & Intel MacBook Pro models are a no show for most. But still Steve Jobs wants us to believe that this is the best available & is the best for all Mac laptop Users. The used car salesmanship of Steve Jobs has been coming much closer to the surface in these past 2 special news events.

Where & what is our alternatives as we are long-term (10-24 years) Mac Users & do not like Windows. We're being pushed away as many have already said & that many more will be saying. No wonder Steve Jobs said that Apple would have lower margins of profit. Lower sales numbers of computers will lower Apple's margin. Much lower sales of top end Mac models will lower it much more. That is the only thing we have seen that would lower Apple's margins in these last 2 news events

[auramac]

Very confused and disappointed. I was greatly looking forward to today's "special event" as I am in the market for a new Macbook or Pro. The Macbook is out of the question anyway now because of the lack of firewire. I figured I'd be getting a Pro because from what I've seen, I prefer matte. Now I'm wondering if the officially updated 17-inch will include matte as an option. I have noticed that most PC laptops I've seen have the glossy screens- in fact, I think they were common there before Apple went in that direction. I was thinking, maybe I'd just upgrade my beloved G5 iMac and get a cheap PC laptop- but the iMac too is glossy only. One consolation is that I wouldn't be using any computer outdoors, and I don't fly. So maybe the glossy will work for me. But I'm always unhappy when fellow Mac users are, and maybe if enough people complain, the glossy screen will go the way of the hockey puck mouse- or at least, we'll have a choice.

[Inkspot]

Maybe in 18 months from now we will see another keynote announcing the NEW anti-glare Macbooks.

The selling points will likely be:
-Less eye strain
-Environmentally friendly (One less material without the glass)
-Lighter weight (Glass is quite heavy)
-Brighter (All glass cuts down a small amount of light that passes through it.)


From a marketing perspective this is typical: make a flawed product, which allows you to make your own solution to it.

[lee_sf]

Probably a superfluous comment at this point, but put me down for "likes glossy."
I've had a black MB for almost two years now, and the glossy screen has been fine. Lots of email, editing in Photoshop, way too much web browsing, Logic Pro/GarageBand, MS Word. Used it on airplanes and in airports, on ferries, in coffee shops, outdoors, the whole bit.
Yes, it has glare, but so did the two 17" TiBooks I had for a few years. They were probably worse because the screen was larger and picked up more light behind me.
All the flat-screen monitors have been better about glare than the curved-screen CRTs I used, which would fisheye and pick up motion in a much larger radius behind you.
For those people saying "you just don't get it", you're right, I don't, and I think I've used the machine enough that I'd have gotten it if I were going to. Maybe it's a particular sensitivity some people have, and once they notice it can't let it go (which I'm not trivializing).