[XMattingly]

>Nobody will mistake it for high-def, but it still looks pretty good. (Video quality also varies from item to item—some classic British TV shows look downright terrible, and some recent Hollywood films look great.)
Yikes. I wouldn't mistake that for acceptable viewing. Maybe for character-driven or "talky" movies, but certainly not for action or animated flicks.
At any rate, I won't be using any service that runs on Silverlight. Ever. My mindset is that if Microsoft is not willing to fully support their Mac customers on commercial software, then they don't deserve any gain in market share with anything else they have to offer.

[whitedog]

{quote}At any rate, I won't be using any service that runs on Silverlight. Ever. My mindset is that if Microsoft is not willing to fully support their Mac customers on commercial software, then they don't deserve any gain in market share with anything else they have to offer.{quote}

You're only cutting off your nose to spite your face. Here Microsoft is improving their Mac support with Silverlight, enabling Netflix to offer Instant Watching on the Mac and, rather than give MS credit for the change, you complain about past perceived offenses. You seem rather too invested in your grievances. The only one you will be hurting with you one-man boycott is yourself.

When Netflix gets the bugs out of the new service, Silverlight is bound to find its way onto many more Macs. People who have less of a grudge against Microsoft will have few qualms about adopting Silverlight if it offers them something they want or need. For most of us, a computer is just a tool, not a religion.

I know, many Mac fans take pride in their cult status. But as Macs become more ubiquitous (that is, popular), the relative number of such Mac fanatics will decline. Such is the inevitable price of success.

[laffmakr]

So which would you say was better? The Roku box or the online streaming?

[XMattingly]

whitedog said:

You're only cutting off your nose to spite your face. Here Microsoft is improving their Mac support with Silverlight, enabling Netflix to offer Instant Watching on the Mac and, rather than give MS credit for the change, you complain about past perceived offenses. You seem rather too invested in your grievances. The only one you will be hurting with you one-man boycott is yourself.

HAHAHA, yeah, I'm really in a world of hurt if I don't get on board with whatever Microsoft has to offer, aren't I? Oh no, what a tragic loss to my little world if I don't ever watch a streaming video off of Netflix. I might as well start cutting myself right now.

First of all, Silverlight was supported on all platforms from the start. It wasn't up to Microsoft to make it work on Netflix: the wait was for Netflix to implement it into their service. And guess what? Just because one video rental company - whose service I don't use anyway - is running video on it, doesn't instantly qualify Silverlight as a mainstream product.

Second, the only reason Microsoft trumpeted full support for this media player on all platforms is the fact that they're taking on Flash. If Flash wasn't the dominant player on the web (by a long shot), I can guarantee you that M$ wouldn't bother supporting other platforms. Or, we would have a faulty/crippled version of their player, as already demonstrated in the past with Windows Media Player.

Quote

People who have less of a grudge against Microsoft will have few qualms about adopting Silverlight if it offers them something they want or need.
I know, many Mac fans take pride in their cult status. But as Macs become more ubiquitous (that is, popular), the relative number of such Mac fanatics will decline. Such is the inevitable price of success.

I'm about as invested in my "grudge" as you are in your smugness and assumptions. Oh me oh my, I refuse to use one Microsoft product, so that automatically makes me a Mac fanboy extremist, right? Wrong. There are those of us who, rather than shuffle through life like brainless cows, are fairly well informed about market trends, the way certain businesses operate and what the ultimate benefit (or lack of) will be by action/inaction. Rather than waddle along with the herd, we act as consumers in the same way we vote for politicians: with our downloads, and with our dollars. So if you're content waddling along with the herd, have fun. But don't condescend to me and call me a Mac fanatic for making an informed choice.

P.S. "Ubiquitous" more accurately means "something that exists everywhere", not "popular". PDF's as a document format are ubiquitous. Unleaded is ubiquitous at gas stations. IPods are ubiquitous MP3 players. Macs, with around 10% U.S. market share, are far from it - and probably never will be. So if you're going to use the big words, do yourself a favor and try using them in the right context.

[Peter Cohen]

XMattingly said:

So if you're content waddling along with the herd, have fun. But don't condescend to me and call me a Mac fanatic for making an informed choice.

Here's an idea: Don't condescend to the rest of us for "waddling with the herd" since we're making the same informed choice by installing a Microsoft product that offers us utility and capabilities that we appreciate.

[XMattingly]

Peter Cohen said:

Here's an idea: Don't condescend to the rest of us for "waddling with the herd" since we're making the same informed choice by installing a Microsoft product that offers us utility and capabilities that we appreciate.

Peter, here's another idea: passive acceptance of a product is most often done without consideration to the reason why it exists, or the agenda of the business that offers it in the first place. So that's not really an "informed choice"; it's just using what is there.

The "waddling with the herd" comment was an overstatement. I'm sure there are a lot of Mac users who are thrilled that Netflix is finally supporting them, and I don't presume to pass judgement on someone for a service they're happy with. But having been called a "Mac fanatic" - simply for knowing Microsoft's history of Mac support and refuting their latest offerings - is something I will respond to.

[Schneb]

Jason Snell said:

It would be nice if they had a form you could fill out to ask for advanced access!

I totally agree with this, Jason. Do you know how I can write Netflix to become a beta tester of the new player? I have an Intel iMac and a white Intel MacBook.

[whitedog]

{quote}HAHAHA, yeah, I'm really in a world of hurt if I don't get on board with whatever Microsoft has to offer, aren't I? Oh no, what a tragic loss to my little world if I don't ever watch a streaming video off of Netflix. I might as well start cutting myself right now.{quote}

My, my, aren't we touchy. Whether or not you're a Mac zealot, you are clearly a Microsoft hater, informed or otherwise, which is often the same thing as a Mac zealot.

If you don't use Netflix, and therefore are not likely to benefit from its availability on the Mac, then one wonders what you're doing on this thread. Lurking for an opportunity to bash Microsoft?

{quote}First of all, Silverlight was supported on all platforms from the start.{quote}

Silverlight did not work for Netflix until the recent .2 update. So "from the start" is irrelevant to the present discussion.

{quote}It wasn't up to Microsoft to make it work on Netflix: the wait was for Netflix to implement it into their service.{quote}

I said Microsoft "enabled" Netflix to come to the Mac, not that they did it themselves. Perhaps if you paid a little more attention to the content of my remarks you'd find less to fume about. It was Netflix's choice to take advantage of what Silverlight 2 makes possible. But without Microsoft's improvements to Silverlight they would not have had that choice.

{quote}Just because one video rental company - whose service I don't use anyway - is running video on it, doesn't instantly qualify Silverlight as a mainstream product.{quote}

So now you're a bellwether for the mainstream. At the same time you don't "waddle along with the herd." Can anyone else spot the contradiction in these assertions?

Whether or not Netflix is mainstream is, perhaps, arguable, but they are certainly an industry leader. Just ask Blockbuster. And you can't get any more mainstream then Microsoft. So, the use of Silverlight by Netflix all but guarantees it a healthy mind share - on the Mac. For a relatively new product like Silverlight the Netflix adoption is a real coup. And it will help Microsoft overcome at least some of the anti-Microsoft bias among some Mac users (not you, obviously, but I'm sure Microsoft would consider you a lost cause - if they considered you at all).

{quote}I'm about as invested in my "grudge" as you are in your smugness and assumptions.{quote}

Again with the contradictory assertions. By what you say, if I am smug than you have a grudge. If I'm not, you don't. I doubt that's the point you were aiming at.

{quote}Second, the only reason Microsoft trumpeted full support for this media player on all platforms is the fact that they're taking on Flash. If Flash wasn't the dominant player on the web (by a long shot), I can guarantee you that M$ wouldn't bother supporting other platforms.{quote}

Silverlight may compete with Flash in some situations, but it also competes with QuickTime in streaming media. And it offers features to content providers not available in Flash or QuickTime. That is, robust digital rights management. Since Apple has refused to license their own proprietary DRM to others, Silverlight has a significant market advantage. If it is not today, it soon will be "mainstream."

What market share Silverlight may take from Flash remains to be seen. Flash is well established among creative media professionals and Adobe is aggressively pushing Flash integration beyond what Macromedia could ever have done on its own. More likely, Silverlight will make its mark in emerging technologies and markets - like Netflix Instant Watching.

Smaller players, like Real, are the ones most likely to be doomed by Silverlight. Personally, I have no interest in learning (or paying for) Microsoft Visual Studio. For one thing, unlike Flash, there is no Mac version of VS. While it can no doubt run in VMWare Fusion and Parallels Desktop, the question for someone currently developing in Flash is, why bother? One would have to be working for a company like Netflix that was paying you to learn Visual Studio and Silverlight to justify the effort.

In any event, Flash and its users will benefit from some healthy competition. It will spur development and continued improvement. I suspect there is room for both Flash and Silverlight in the marketplace. And, perhaps, a growing niche for Silverlight will nudge Apple to more aggressively advance QuickTime, which seems to have been resting on its laurels for some time now.

I'm no fan of Microsoft. But neither do I see it as the root of all evil. Thus am I willing to credit them for doing something useful, like providing an avenue for Netflix to come to the Mac, as to criticize them for doing something stupid, like the Zune Marketplace or the Seinfeld/Gates commercials - or leaving Visual Basic out of Office 2008 for the Mac.

[Jason Snell]

laffmakr said:

So which would you say was better? The Roku box or the online streaming?

I'd say the Roku is better, largely because it's better to watch TV on TV than on a computer.

But I suppose if were on my computer and nowhere near my TV (like in a hotel room or on a lunch break at work), I'd say the opposite...

[XMattingly]

whitedog said:

My, my, aren't we touchy. Whether or not you're a Mac zealot, you are clearly a Microsoft hater, informed or otherwise, which is often the same thing as a Mac zealot.

You presume too much. Phrases like "which is often the same thing as" are what Wikipedia call "weasel words". I'm first and foremost a consumer. Businesses with bad histories deserve to be boycotted.

Quote

If you don't use Netflix, and therefore are not likely to benefit from its availability on the Mac, then one wonders what you're doing on this thread. Lurking for an opportunity to bash Microsoft?

I'm expressing an opinion. Not using a product does not automatically exclude one from partaking in the conversation, Stalin. And your POV isn't a determinant for the agenda in an open forum.

Quote

I said Microsoft "enabled" Netflix to come to the Mac, not that they did it themselves. Perhaps if you paid a little more attention to the content of my remarks you'd find less to fume about. It was Netflix's choice to take advantage of what Silverlight 2 makes possible.

Now who's being touchy? It doesn't matter what technology went behind Netflix and that was not your point anyway. They could have just as easily gone with Flash, and - apparently from Jason Snell's screen capture - the quality would have been no different.

Quote

{quote}Just because one video rental company - whose service I don't use anyway - is running video on it, doesn't instantly qualify Silverlight as a mainstream product.{quote}
So now you're a bellwether for the mainstream. At the same time you don't "waddle along with the herd." Can anyone else spot the contradiction in these assertions?

You know what I meant by that, because you also said:

Quote

Whether or not Netflix is mainstream is, perhaps, arguable...

Silverlight's market share is the relevant point. Not my choice of video service. I certainly see the contradictions in your response; you're just trolling.
And you can't get any more mainstream then Microsoft. So, the use of Silverlight by Netflix all but guarantees it a healthy mind share - on the Mac.
"Mainstream" is not the same thing as "mind share". "Market share" and "mind share" are completely different metrics. Just like "ubiquitous" and "popular" aren't synonyms. Hard to imagine how you can point your finger and call me contradictory when your own diction is off the mark.
And it will help Microsoft overcome at least some of the anti-Microsoft bias among some Mac users
I don't care. I have no interest in this particular product. Don't want it, don't need it and that's that.
What market share Silverlight may take from Flash remains to be seen.
Until they have something comparable to the mother of all video sharing sites, YouTube, Silverlight will be a bit player.
Personally, I have no interest in learning (or paying for) Microsoft Visual Studio. For one thing, unlike Flash, there is no Mac version of VS.
That pretty much makes the case for why I say, "Silverlight is not likely to gain significant market share", no?
In any event, Flash and its users will benefit from some healthy competition.
Competition in the market is good. But I'm not interested in offering any support for Microsoft, who is notoriously bad at playing fair with other platforms when they're on the uptake. Since they're facing an uphill battle, of course they're going to play nice with everyone. Give them a substantial chunk of market share, then we're back to the old Windows Media Player days: second class citizenship on a third rate product. No thanks.

[MilSF1]

Also keep in mind that the video quality is directly proportional to your connection speed. If you search long enough, you can find the cut off points. I watch with the Parallels/IE combo at home and elsewhere. The key is what the connection rate is when you get the Checking Internet Connection screen. If you connection is momentarily slower for any reason, you get a much worse quality video. You have to go back to the browsing screen and try again. I have NEVER seen the video quality automatically raise itself if the connection gets better. It all depends on the connection rate at the time of that initial screen.
-Mark

[cannibalpeas]

OK, I've just got to chime in here. It seems that a lot of people using Parallels, VM Ware, & Bootcamp are having a bit of trouble. I have to say that I am (in my ignorance) surprised. I have Virtualbox (FREE!) running on my 2.0 ghz 20" iMac with no issues whatsoever! (Actually, I have to correct myself and give dues to the NetFlix support staff. I was having trouble with videos loading and the rep was able to help me isolate RAM allocation as my issue. I was amazed. Not only did they know everything about my machine, they had troubleshooting measures in place even though the rep said she had never seen a Virtualbox machine before!)

The reason I feel like I have to say something here is the FREE! aspect of Virtualbox and the fact that I've never had so much as a hiccup from my Mac since installing it with XP. Videos load in seconds and I never drop the connection. And this is with the feeble stock video card that came with the '06/'07 iMacs (OK, video is a bit laggy, but looks clearer than the author's still).

[whitedog]

I don't know if I mentioned it before, but I've had very little trouble using Netflix Instant Watching in Windows XP running in VMWare Fusion. The only problem has been occasionally having to update the Windows Media Player, which can be confusing. I have had less success with XP in Parallels, perhaps because it cannot take advantage of multiple processors, as Fusion can. Vista is the worst, either in Fusion or in Boot Camp (I have multiple Windows setups for testing purposes). I'm using a 3 GHz quad core Mac Pro with 8 GB of RAM.

In any case, I will be glad when Netflix makes Instant Watching available, native, on the Mac. Then I won't have to resort to Windows in any form for this purpose.

[rlockhart]

While I think it's great that Netflix is coming out with a Mac-compatible viewer, the real excitement is around their deal with Tivo. I purchased a Roku Netflix player and could never get it to join my network. It would find my wireless access point, and get assigned an IP, but then fail to actually become part of my network. After a couple hours on the phone with their tech support, I just returned the player. (Ironically, I have a Roku Soundbridge that works perfectly.) Now that they're going to do this through Tivo, I feel the fates stepped in and saved me $100.