[Macworld]

Post your comments for Seven ways to push mail to the iPhone?without Exchange here

[jmincey]

I wouldn't be too quick to count Lotus Domino and Notes out of this picture. IBM has developed an ultra-thin, browser-based IMAP mail Notes client which can run on the iPhone.
And IBM may soon adapt its "Traveler" application for the iPhone.
The iPhone needs better Java support if more email options are to be available to Apple customers.
Jeff Mincey

[fletc3her]

MobileMe works well if you think of it as the push component of your email. You can check your email any way you want, gmail, your own mail server, etc. But, you can use rules either server-side or client-side which redirect messages that you want to read on the iPhone to MobileMe. That way you get notification, and can read, important messages on the iPhone, but you don't need to process your entire mail volume through the iPhone.

[luckylou7]

A bet on Lotus Domino or Notes is a bet on a weak horse. Sure they may eventually cross the finish line, but there are plenty of better horses with real chances to run a heck of a lot better. Look how lame their Mac Notes client is. Any company that would choose this over another more savvy client has needs an IT tune-up.

[RobK]

I just leave me Mac on, with Spam Sieve and have the accounts I want on my phone set up as IMAP on all places.
Spares me ANY spam on my phone... You do have to leave your Mac on all the time which I do anyway.

[bynkii]

Java Schmava. What are we missing? Notes? Domino? Slow applications with a UI that looks like it was designed with Visio 1.0?
People keep saying "OMG JAVAONTHEIPHONE", but no one has come up with some killer application that can only be done with Java.

[Barryhughes1]

If you are going to talk about Lotus Domino, please have the courtesy to know something about it.

Domino 8.0 is now eclipse based and with the new Xpages technology offers one of the best 2.0 web development environments available.

It is ultra-secure (used by governments all over the world) and they are focussing on developing an ultra secure, ultra-lite client (not just mail) for all mobile platforms, including the iPhone.

It's #2 in popularity to exchange and cannot be ignored by Apple or anyone, nor is it a 'visio 1.0' app.

[macavela]

Why do you need another mail app if the iPhone already comes with one? Sure it'll look cute, but JAVA just slows things down on any mobile platform. I'm just glad we can get rid of our Crackberries and truly use our iPhones for business email and contacts.
BTW, we went with Kerio a few months ago, because it was the only one offering iPhone sync with Entourage. We have no choice but to use Entourage so this is very important to us. Exchange was just not an option.

[bynkii]

Barryhughes1 said:

If you are going to talk about Lotus Domino, please have the courtesy to know something about it.

I've evaluated every release since before Domino was even a product, and it was still just Lotus Notes. They've always been gobsmackingly ugly and horrid to use unless you're a Notes/Database programmer. In fact, nothing Ray Ozzie designed has ever been usable by humans without massive and constant training.

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Domino 8.0 is now eclipse based and with the new Xpages technology offers one of the best 2.0 web development environments available.

Eclipse is an IDE, not a language. That makes as much sense as saying an application is "Xcode-based". As well, you show my point. Domino is designed for programmers not users. But if you want to do enterprise level Web 2.0 development in Domino on an iPhone, take films. That could be funny stuff.

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It is ultra-secure (used by governments all over the world) and they are focussing on developing an ultra secure, ultra-lite client (not just mail) for all mobile platforms, including the iPhone.

If they want it on the iPhone, they aren't doing it in Java. One size does not in fact fit all. The sooner people realize this, the sooner we can shut that myth down. As well, no product is inherently "ultra-secure". A product can be designed in a way that makes it easier to implement in a secure fashion, but it is the implementation that defines the security of a product, not the code in the box.

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It's #2 in popularity to exchange and cannot be ignored by Apple or anyone, nor is it a 'visio 1.0' app.

I said the UI looked like it was designed by Visio 1.0. Do try to read what people write before you fuss at them. DOmino has never had a decent UI for the average user, and I highly doubt it ever will.

[Barryhughes1]

bynkli:

1) Ever since Domino R5 (pre IBM) the Lotus Domino email interface has looked and worked exactly te same as all other mail UIs. If you think that it was/is ugly - then you must think Gmail, Outlook Express, Mobile Me et al are equally ugly.

2) You OBVIOUSLY haven't evaluated every release of Domino - have you used, seen or even heard of iNotes ultralite? I use it on the iphone (over Safari) and it is as fast and easier to use than the gmail account I imap to on the phone. It is icon based and ultra easy to use. Must have been developed after Ray Ozzie left!



3) I have trained users how to use email on the Notes client and using iNotes - and no matter what the computer literacy of the person I've trained they have had no problems. If you'd like a tour I can arrange it.

4) The Domino move to eclipse has opened up a huge number of avenues for domino as a product. The introduction of Xpages puts a coherent and organised structure on Web 2.0 development (using DOJO) and will allow future domino web services to look and act amazing. I've seen the new discussion forum template (created using Xpages) and it sures beats how this particular forum (for one) works.

5) I've not mentioned JAVA once in all of this. Domino web interfaces are no longer JAVA applet only - it's Web 2.0 too.

6) Domino is ultra-secure. It is used by governments all around the globe. All locally stored mail files are encrypted by default and require a password for a notes ID (that can;t be hacked) to even get access. Just having the phone/PC or knowing a password is not enough.
FINAL POINT:

Any article that list 7 ways to push mail to the iPhone that doesnt include Lotus Domino is frankly ignoring the chief competitor to Microsoft Exchange. The fact that IBM are currently working on adding native support for it on the iPhone (as it has on the Blackberry) and to leave it off the list makes it's omission even worse.

[macavela]

I believe the reason why Domino is not on this list is because it has the same problems of Exchange: too expensive and too complicated. Both are just bloatware. Kerio, Zimbra, and others are revolutionizing IT for us admins. It doesn't have to be hard, it doesn't have to be expensive, and features are can be more innovative. Especially in today's economy, we all have to get more with smaller budgets.

We no longer have to be slaves to the big companies telling us to pay more to put up with crap.

[bynkii]

Barryhughes1 said:

bynkli:


1) Ever since Domino R5 (pre IBM) the Lotus Domino email interface has looked and worked exactly te same as all other mail UIs. If you think that it was/is ugly - then you must think Gmail, Outlook Express, Mobile Me et al are equally ugly.

No, no it has not. In fact, it is so ugly and unusable sans extensive training that I am amazed that anyone who is sighted can say make such a ridiculous claim, even if they ARE an extreme Notes/Domino partisan.

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2) You OBVIOUSLY haven't evaluated every release of Domino - have you used, seen or even heard of iNotes ultralite? I use it on the iphone (over Safari) and it is as fast and easier to use than the gmail account I imap to on the phone. It is icon based and ultra easy to use. Must have been developed after Ray Ozzie left!

That's not a Push Email implication, is it. No. No it is not. Which, you may have read, is part of the article.

And if it's better than Mail, here's a test. Put the iphone in Airplane mode. Now, go ahead, connect to it, read old email, compose mail, etc.

I bet it isn't all that usable is it. Hmm..no.

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3) I have trained users how to use email on the Notes client and using iNotes - and no matter what the computer literacy of the person I've trained they have had no problems. If you'd like a tour I can arrange it.

And I've set Mail, Entourage, and outlook in front of the computer illiterate, and had them need no training to use those applications at the levels they require. As far as a tour of Notes, no thanks. I try not to engage in self-abuse without a good reason.

Funny how, while administrators LOVE Notes/Domino, the non-technical users seem to hate it in large numbers.

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4) The Domino move to eclipse has opened up a huge number of avenues for domino as a product. The introduction of Xpages puts a coherent and organised structure on Web 2.0 development (using DOJO) and will allow future domino web services to look and act amazing. I've seen the new discussion forum template (created using Xpages) and it sures beats how this particular forum (for one) works.

Way to miss the point. Eclipse is not a programming language. It is an IDE. You use an IDE to help you create a program in a specific language. So you use Xcode to write a program in Objective C. The program is not however, written in Xcode. IDE contains the language, the language is what the program is written in. That's an important point.

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5) I've not mentioned JAVA once in all of this. Domino web interfaces are no longer JAVA applet only - it's Web 2.0 too.

If you're going to try to use one language on multiple platforms, especially mobile devices, that pretty much means Java, unless you have a .Net or ObjC implementation that works across multiple mobile platforms.

6) Domino is ultra-secure. It is used by governments all around the globe. All locally stored mail files are encrypted by default and require a password for a notes ID (that can;t be hacked) to even get access. Just having the phone/PC or knowing a password is not enough.

Again, a product is not secure. It is implemented securely. It can have features that can help it be more secure, but it is entirely possible to implement Notes in an insecure fashion.

As well, all passwords are eventually vulnerable to brute force attack. That's why 2 and 3-factor auth is becoming more popular, so you remove the entire concept of a static password being your sole form of access security.

FINAL POINT:


Any article that list 7 ways to push mail to the iPhone that doesnt include Lotus Domino is frankly ignoring the chief competitor to Microsoft Exchange. The fact that IBM are currently working on adding native support for it on the iPhone (as it has on the Blackberry) and to leave it off the list makes it's omission even worse.

Notes, as of yet, is not a push email client on the iPhone. It's only got a Web App, and no matter how hard you try, that's not push. What was the title of the article? "Seven ways to push mail to the iPhone ? without Exchange". That would be why Apple's own email server isn't in the article, since it's not a push email implementation.

Since Notes/DOmino is, as of yet, not a push email solution for the iPhone, it doesn't fit in the article.

[Barryhughes1]

OK timeout!

Domino does push email - just not to the iphone ..... yet! The fact that it doesn't shows a limitation of the iPhone OS. Blackberrys have been supporting domino push email for years.

Instead of jumping into bed with MS in native push mail support, Apple should have provided the API for easily adding ALL mail servers.

The reason I'm pointing out what domino is capable of doing now is to respond to your comment about it being slow and ugly - and that it requires java to produce anything on the iPhone (or anywhere else). I respectfully disagree.

I have nothing against MS Exchange or any of the 7 listed in the article - if they work that's great!

I'm just pointing out a proven alternative mail server that WILL push to the iPhone soon and am justfied in asking why it is not mentioned in the article.

BTW - Domino R8.5 mac client is really nice. Most Domino Admins I know use Macs.

[bynkii]

Barryhughes1 said:

OK timeout!

Domino does push email - just not to the iphone ..... yet! The fact that it doesn't shows a limitation of the iPhone OS. Blackberrys have been supporting domino push email for years.

Or IBM hasn't created an easy to license way to get Domino groupware info into other clients the way Microsoft has with EAS. However, you still don't seem to understand that the article was about pushing mail to the iPhone. Domino cannot do that, therefore, it was not a proper application for this article.

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Instead of jumping into bed with MS in native push mail support, Apple should have provided the API for easily adding ALL mail servers.

Yahoo didn't seem to have a problem. Besides, since when is IBM not just as rapacious as Microsoft?

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The reason I'm pointing out what domino is capable of doing now is to respond to your comment about it being slow and ugly - and that it requires java to produce anything on the iPhone (or anywhere else). I respectfully disagree.

I didn't say it required Java, but it is ugly and slow. Seen 8.5. Still the same old Domino...a database environment that happens to do groupware.

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I have nothing against MS Exchange or any of the 7 listed in the article - if they work that's great!

I'm just pointing out a proven alternative mail server that WILL push to the iPhone soon and am justfied in asking why it is not mentioned in the article.

Because Domino doesn't have a true push client for the iPHone yet, something you just admitted in the same reply you say it does. Look! YOUR WORDS! AGAIN!

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Domino does push email - just not to the iphone ..... yet! The fact that it doesn't shows a limitation of the iPhone OS. Blackberrys have been supporting domino push email for years.

This isn't about random push mail implementations. It's about email and groupware that can push to the iPhone...TODAY. Domino, BY YOUR OWN WORDS, cannot, therefore, including software that cannot push mail to the iPhone today in an article about software that can push mail to the iPhone TODAY would have been silly.

BTW - Domino R8.5 mac client is really nice. Most Domino Admins I know use Macs.

No, it's still standard Notes/Domino UI theory with new widgets. Still designed for administrators, not the users. Still enterprise software, with all the Rube Goldberg UI design principles that implies.