[Mojo_Jojo]

Well, I'm one of the people who thinks that it's a good idea not to have a floppy drive. Apple didn't force me to think that. I came up with that idea by myself - had horrible experiences with floppies (still do, actually).
I was happy to see floppies go away. Not a day premature! If I wanted to transfer a file I had many option: e-mail for smaller files, cds for larger ones and recently usb flash drives do the trick. I'm much happier without them. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Sure, every now and then someone pops up with a file on a floppy - I simply explain to them to use e-mail instead and it's done, or in rare cases I transfer via PC or a beige G3 (tha last Mac with floppy drive).
And though USB isn't a Mac invention, they would never become standard if Apple didn't switch to USBs and FireWire back then. Just remember the design of first USB devices on the market - they're all "iMac compliant".
FireWire is Apple's technology - which is why we still don't have USB 2.0 on our Macs, but do have FireWire 800 - Apple simply promotes it's own technology.

[handle]

I think "'Martian's'' reply to this topic on the Desktop Mac/Hardware forum best sums up my thoughts on the folly of some much trumpeted Apple 'innovations'...
"I know of several schools that bought iMacs when they first came out. They soon realized that they needed grossly overpriced, theft-prone external floppy drives so that students could carry their files around.
Next year, when they needed more computers, they bought mostly PCs. I know for a fact that the floppy issue was the deal breaker.
This story must have been repeated thousands of times around the world. And for every school sale that Mac loses, they also lose many home sales, and ultimately lose llifetime Mac users from the students at these schools.
Apple/Jobs arrogant contempt for backward compatibility and transitional phase-out, is just another reason why Mac has borderline market share. "

[Par_XI]

In reply to:

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Well, I'm one of the people who thinks that it's a good idea not to have a floppy drive. Apple didn't force me to think that. I came up with that idea by myself - had horrible experiences with floppies (still do, actually).

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Wait a second... Do you really think it's better not to have a floppy than it is to have one? I personally never use gigabit ethernet, for example, but I'm not complaining that it's there. Basically, if someone offered you a disk drive for nothing, you would refuse?
The amount of people who were forced to shell out $120 for a SuperDrive (or as Handle demonstrated, purchased PCs instead) because Apple didn't ship with a $7 disk drive is a tribute to how bad of an idea it was.

Since they buy in bulk, it's probably a good deal less than $7. $7 is the actual price a consumer would get at Fry's.

[Par_XI]

In reply to:

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And though USB isn't a Mac invention, they would never become standard if Apple didn't switch to USBs and FireWire back then. Just remember the design of first USB devices on the market - they're all "iMac compliant".

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How do you figure that? For starters, USB isn't "standard." Practically every non-mac specific keyboard you find will be PS/2. A large quantity of mice are PS/2 and practically all non-Mac specific mice ship with USB-PS/2 adapters or are purely PS/2. Remember that Apple has a 3-5% marketshare and if you ask a peripheral manufacturer how many Mac users buy their products, I'm sure it's even less. Although hanging out of a Mac board skews your perspective, Apple is not exactly a heavy weight.
Secondly, USB was mainstream long before Apple adopted it. Gateway, Dell, etc. shipped with it. A relatively small computer manufacture jumping on the USB bandwagon late was irrelevant. Sure, it affected the Mac specific micro economy, but in the grand scheme of things its barely worth a mention.

In reply to:

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FireWire is Apple's technology - which is why we still don't have USB 2.0 on our Macs, but do have FireWire 800 - Apple simply promotes it's own technology.

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Which is not a good thing. Unlike PCs, you often can't simply drop in a $10 Firewire card or whatever and become compatible. Like digedit, my PC came with FireWire, USB2, PS/2 and tons of other miscellaneous ports. There's no reason why Apple can't do the same.

[rockinphotog]

There is only so much room on a machine. If someone wanted them so bad they could add a drive (space permitting) Would you have rather had a floppy on the iMac than a cdrom?
I never used floppies with my Umax clone, unless I had to install something on one of those stupid slow disks. I don't miss that sound they made "wheee tic tic tic tic whoo tic tic tic tic".

[rockinphotog]

In reply to:

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you often can't simply drop in a $10 Firewire card or whatever and become compatible

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Are you talking about old machines or was that a typo (should read FW800)?
A 2 port FW card came with my Nikon scanner. It was plug and play (no drivers) on my G4. There is a simple driver install for a PC (the card is cross platform).
That seems pretty easy to me.

[digedit]

Hey, I'm no big floppy fan either and to be honest I don't use them anymore and I don't need them or miss them either. BUT, with so much Mac software using PACE copy protection and authorization schemes it was an absolute pain for me that Apple didn't at least offer one as an option when they released the new G3's. Because of Apple's arrogant or maybe ignorant views on backwards compatibility, I had to spend $170 extra just to install my software, $50 extra to use my existing and almost new printer and another $60 to add what should be about a $1 part to use my existing and expensive serial devices. Let alone that I had to invest in a new $200 Scanner or spend more money on a SCSI card. And this was on top of a brand new and very expensive CPU purchase.
The point is advancement is well and good, but for many people the computer is just one element of a larger system and not everyone wants or can afford to throw out every peripheral they have when Apple introduces a new line of computers. I think that's one reason people limp along with old Macs for so long, it's such an expensive proposition to upgrade to a new system with the high price of systems and near total lack of backwards compatibility. Anyway, with Apple's focus on marketing "the digital hub" lets see how everyone feels the next time they do this and all of their nice peripherals need to be tossed out in favor of new ones once again.

[iLovetheiMac500]

http://www.macminute...2003/02/10/dell
Click on this link for Dell-related humor. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Par_XI]

rockinphotog, most Macs don't even have PCI cards. Hence, as I said, "you often can't simply drop in a $10 Firewire card or whatever and become compatible." Even the few Macs that do aren't guaranteed compatibility with the cards on the market. I can assure you that my FireWire Audigy, for example, isn't going to do in a G4.
Just FYI, XP (and maybe others) doesn't need drivers for FW cards.

[Mojo_Jojo]

In reply to:

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Wait a second... Do you really think it's better not to have a floppy than it is to have one? I personally never use gigabit ethernet, for example, but I'm not complaining that it's there. Basically, if someone offered you a disk drive for nothing, you would refuse?

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Yes, I do and yes I would. Why? Simply because in the last years of the floppy almost 50% of files transfered via floppies have been non-readable due to a faulty media. How many e-mails had read errors? Plus floppy drives are ugly - which is why I wouldn't want to see one emerge from the ashes on a new Mac.

In reply to:

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The amount of people who were forced to shell out $120 for a SuperDrive (or as Handle demonstrated, purchased PCs instead) because Apple didn't ship with a $7* disk drive is a tribute to how bad of an idea it was.

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I still think it was a good idea, but Apple should have trained people to think different. Not everyone starts automatically to think different with a purchase of a Mac - some have to be explained how to use it. This is a very big issue still today and I don't mean this floppywise. I know of people who had Microsoft Office installed on their machines and didn't know how to use simply because they didn't know how to start an application...

In reply to:

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For starters, USB isn't "standard." Practically every non-mac specific keyboard you find will be PS/2. A large quantity of mice are PS/2 and practically all non-Mac specific mice ship with USB-PS/2 adapters or are purely PS/2. Remember that Apple has a 3-5% marketshare and if you ask a peripheral manufacturer how many Mac users buy their products, I'm sure it's even less. Although hanging out of a Mac board skews your perspective, Apple is not exactly a heavy weight.

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USB is standard on all new PCs. My fiancee sells PCs for living - in large quantities (wish they were Macs) - there are no new boxes without USB. I consider this to be standard. But this isn't even a big issue here. I prefer to transfer files on USB flash drive. If I don't have USB at the target place I'll use either CD or e-mail. Those are even more standard.

In reply to:

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"FireWire being promoted by Apple..." Which is not a good thing. Unlike PCs, you often can't simply drop in a $10 Firewire card or whatever and become compatible. Like digedit, my PC came with FireWire, USB2, PS/2 and tons of other miscellaneous ports. There's no reason why Apple can't do the same.

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I'm not sure I get your point here. But I'd be the first one to agree that Apple made a big mistake by leaving out USB2 in order to support FireWire 800. Bad move Apple. Sure I'm happy to have FireWire 800, but I'm not likely to use it anytime soon. At the same time I need to live with PC world gloating over them having USB2 and us not.

In reply to:

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Because of Apple's arrogant or maybe ignorant views on backwards compatibility, I had to spend $170 extra just to install my software, $50 extra to use my existing and almost new printer and another $60 to add what should be about a $1 part to use my existing and expensive serial devices. Let alone that I had to invest in a new $200 Scanner or spend more money on a SCSI card. And this was on top of a brand new and very expensive CPU purchase.

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I can feel your pain. I'm even more hurt financially with Apple's sudden transfers to new technologies. Still I don't miss floppies, but I do miss SCSI. And as far as new software is concerned - we all know what this was about, so we don't complain too much. Do you honestly believe that in a year or two you'll be forced to use another radically new OS? Don't think so.
Too sum it all up - I simply don't miss floppies and I'm happy that they're gone for good. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[worthawholebean]

I don'y know, I hate floppys too.
If you let one sit for a few months or so, they "fry", and the computer recognizes them as defective.
What? But I just bought it three months ago. It's dead? Nooooooooooooooooo...
Maybe theeir decision was a bit premature...

[Mac-Ale]

I have no problem with the early elimination of the floppy on Macs (forced me to scamble a bit, but new is often good)...but as someone who has saved and exchanged (often mailed) floppies of docs and data since 1985 and the 5 1/4 inch days, what is all this about them "frying" or being unreliable? I don't think I ever had a problem...

[d00d]

In reply to:

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What? But I just bought it three months ago. It's dead? Nooooooooooooooooo...

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Maybe the floppy isn't dead, but this thread sure was until you resurrected it. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Peter]

You said it d00d. I can't believe someone picks up on a thread last posted about a year ago. It's old news. Who cares.