[Chris Breen]

ItunesIsDead said:

>Tell me where I'm off.

I can bang my head against that wall just so many times. You've been wrong at every turn yet you keep coming back for more. We're in trollsville now and it does this thread no good to continue discussing this with you.

[l84toff]

So my question is could a person take their DRM QTrax songs and oh say...burn them to a CD? Not talking mp3 format either. Cause DRM on iTunes has long been a non-issue if you have 5 min to (seemlingly legaly) circumvent the DRM.


And those asking who's going to spend $500 or $1000 to fill up their ipod with music...I don't see this as a valid argument for anything. Is there really that much new music content out there to buy? I mean music isn't my life like it was when I was 19 but I still have a huge collection and love listening to good music. I suspect most people out there also have a decent sized music library. What would prompt anyone to go out and buy 1k worth of music, certainly not a new iPod.



Yes the original article is an opinion. I'm not sure I agree that it's "unappealing" though. I think a lot of people will find it appealing considering how many people steal....er....download music illegally and how many use a pc. Make it available for the mac and for the iPod and I think a lot more people will give it a test drive. iTunes isn't going away just yet...

[ItunesIsDead]

Whether my facts are 100% on-target or not is irrelevant. The point I am trying to make, AGAIN, is that FREE and LEGAL will eventually beat any PAID model in the long run. There will always be those that want to pay for their music. BUT, a huge chunk of this consumption is made by younger people. This is where MOST of the illegal consumption happens. Why? for a couple reasons: First, these young people grew up with FREE music (albeit illegal). Second, these people will spend their money on other things (like new players, cell phones, etc.).

My point of 'Free will beat Paid' is totally proven by the very existence and success of the Napster/Morpheus/Limewire/Bittorrent,(etc.) systems that have come and gone in various incarnations. This is persistent and will continue to be so. People will put up with limitations in exchange for free. They do this today with the viruses, and malware risk they have while using these system (which does NOT exist with Qtrax).

You guys are just die-hard and fail to acknowledge that there's a foundational shift happening to the music business, and the status-quo will no longer do. Open your eyes. Apple, as nice as their products are, will HAVE to make serious changes.

I am done posting here. My goal was to get people thinking differently from the article, and at least I may have planted the curiosity in people's minds. Some here will bash me till the end, and that's OK with me. I don't care. Bash away.

In the end, time will tell who is right. Mind you, there will be more than one solution. But Qtrax will make a significant contribution to the failing music industry.

Best of luck to all. This is the end of my posting here. (go ahead, put in your final shot - peace out).

[Chris Breen]

ItunesIsDead said:

>Some here will bash me till the end, and that's OK with me. I don't care. Bash away.

Nah, the fish in your barrel are already pretty full of holes. No need to do more damage. Thanks for your participation.

[Dan Frakes]

ItunesIsDead said:

Whether my facts are 100% on-target or not is irrelevant.

When you?re trying to convince others of the merit of your position, facts are important. When your argument is largely based on a lack of understanding of the facts, it makes your position much less convincing.

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The point I am trying to make, AGAIN, is that FREE and LEGAL will eventually beat any PAID model in the long run.

The problem is you?ve presented little evidence of that position. I agree that all other things being equal, free and legal will indeed beat paid. But all other things aren?t equal. For example, Qtrax is competing with both iTunes and pirated music. Both of these, now, have absolutely no restrictions?they can be played on any device. Qtrax music can?t. So your argument is based on a false comparison.

You and the other pro-Qtrax people in this discussion repeatedly point to the sheer number of pirated music tracks. Studies have shown that most people who pirate music do so in bulk?hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands of tracks. In other words, the people downloading the vast majority of illegal tracks are dedicated. I don?t think they?re going to stop using their favorite BitTorrent or P2P client and download a new, ad-sponsored client that gives them DRMd files that can?t be played on all their devices. What incentive do they have to do so?

Which leaves those who want to do the right thing and get their music legally. Suddenly the market is much smaller. But keep in mind that many of the true music lovers out there, the ones who feel strongly that artists should be paid and will purchase or otherwise get their music legally, are, well, music lovers. They have iPods and CD players and various audio systems they use to listen to their music. Qtrax music, just like music from previous DRM WMA services, can?t be burned to CD or converted to other formats. (At least with pre-DRM-free iTunes, people could burn their music to CD or convert it to a universally-playable format.)

So your market just shrank even smaller. Who?s left? And is that group big enough to ?change the music market forever?? Personally, I don?t think so.

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There will always be those that want to pay for their music. BUT, a huge chunk of this consumption is made by younger people. This is where MOST of the illegal consumption happens.

And younger people are also disproportionately likely to have an iPod...which Qtrax music won?t play on. You keep dismissing the whole compatibility thing, when it?s a key thing.

Quote

My point of 'Free will beat Paid' is totally proven by the very existence and success of the Napster/Morpheus/Limewire/Bittorrent,(etc.) systems that have come and gone in various incarnations.

See above. ?Free with no restrictions? beats ?paid.? ?Free with many restrictions? can?t beat ?pirated,? and it will be a tough sell to even compete with iTunes, eMusic, etc.

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You guys are just die-hard and fail to acknowledge that there's a foundational shift happening to the music business, and the status-quo will no longer do.

Or maybe we just happen to disagree that Qtrax is the answer to all our woes.

[Jason Snell]

Thanks to everyone for making their views loud and clear in this thread!

I'm now closing it - I think we've gone around and around here.

I look forward to our new, enthusiastic users to participate in many other future discussions here at Macworld Forums.