[Wondercow]

Barneski said:

Troll is the term of first resort on this forum. I've seen it before, so bullshit to that, little man. It's effectively meaningless.

That may be your perception, but that doesn't make it so. I usually see the term "troll" used when the trolls come out, as in this thread. A lot of baseless claims made with absolutely nothing to support them. When "we" post facts the collective response is to 1) ridicule, 2) make it personal, and 3) post more opinion as fact. Sometimes we get to number 4 (and sometimes it comes with number 1): profanity. You drastically weaken whatever argument you may have when you need to resort to vulgarity. Add that to the insults and you are being a troll.

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On to more important things. I don't particularly judge what you or the other guy does with their spare time. However, "my time is valuable" is a very common argument on these Mac threads.

Perhaps that's because people's time is, uh, valuable?
>The person I replied to used it. He also claims to have built "numerous" PCs. So he will know that in terms of computer assembly, start to finish it takes a normal person a few hours: two to four hours would be realistic for the hardware side of things.
I bet it would take a normal person a lot longer than that. A geek who knows what he's doing will do it in less time than a "normal person". Putting that aside, why do you presume to judge that two to four hours isn't valuable to others? Or that building a PC is a good use of time?

I have nothing but time these days but it's still valuable. Anything I choose to do takes time away from the three core commitments: rehab, resting, and spending as much time as I can with my family. Anything else needs to be judged against those three, especially the last. I could build a computer but the time it takes would literally be a waste when I can buy one.

So, again, who are you to judge how valuable someone's time is or how he spends it?

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Maybe he spent less time here than that, maybe more. I'm not sure I care. The fact remains that he is spending time demolishing what he calls "insanely stupid" strawman arguments advanced by someone who you would have us believe is just a troll (by definition, a waster of other people's time). To me, that sounds like someone who values his time at precisely $0 an hour. Take it not as a judgement, just an observation.

That's a judgement plain and simple; you're saying "you spend your time in a way that I think is not valuable; therefore, your time is worth nothing."

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a) defending the mulitbillion dollar corporation that built their computer for them, as if it needs the help

Right, no one is allowed to voice their opinion if it is support of a "mulitbillion dollar corporation that built their computer for them." I must have missed the memo telling us that either you make the rules here or that we're just not allowed to post opinions related to supporting Apple.

[Wondercow]

jman3001 said:

As a side note. None of my Macs have been worth anything after I was done using them. This goes back to Performas, 770AVs, PM 9600s, G4s, or G5s. There was no value. All of them eventually failed and despite all the rhetoric, Apple never backed up any of the failures. A few owners of the G5s with the leaking processor coolant are getting Mac Pros for replacement. That's pretty nice. Looks like Apple is cruising for Brownie Points on those, but many many other G5 owners got nothing when their G5 Macs failed.

My latest G5 failed with a bad Logic Board. Nothing to do for that. It was made in Taiwan, like most of Apples parts. So, if your computer is a throw away in 5 years or less, you're better off going for an inexpensive machine with substance rather than a pretty box with pitfalls.

I won't begrudge you your experience but, in the end, it's just that--your experience. I agree that the G5s did have issues but that doesn't change the numerous consumer satisfaction surveys that give Apple top marks for both customer service and product quality. (The latter has certainly slipped some recently, but it's still better than the rest, overall)

[Wondercow]

jman3001 said:

People using a Psystar machine or the Hackintosh machine to run OS X do not need to justify it to anybody. We do it because we can.

So if someone were to punch you in the face they could just claim "I did it because I can" and it'd all be OK?

[Barneski]

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Wondercow wrote:> I bet it would take a normal person a lot longer than that. A geek who knows what he's doing will do it in less time than a "normal person". Putting that aside, why do you presume to judge that two to four hours isn't valuable to others? Or that building a PC is a good use of time?

For a first timer, longer is entirely possible. For someone who claims to have built "numerous" PCs, two to four hours would be sufficient, a little longer if they prefer (like me) to take it very slowly. But that guy's rather melodramatic list of the pitfalls suggest a higher than normal level of ineptitude. And most people who try it would find it considerably easier, not harder, than they imagined.

Putting a PC together requires screwing the motherboard to the case, adding components to the motherboard (putting things in slots) and making a few cable connections. Motherboards come with manuals to explain all this in detail. I don't say it's for everybody, but it's most definitely not geek territory. Those among iMac, laptop and Mini owners who've never opened a computer might think this is beyond them (though such "closed" systems bring plenty of their own problems). And people who actively prefer to buy off the shelf PCs and Macs don't need to go the self-build route. But for anyone that's reasonably openminded on the subject, there are many advantages and few disadvantages. Note the qualification, however: openminded. It's worth considering for people who think they might be capable of standing on their own two feet, but that means most people.

[jman3001]

Macworld said:

So if someone were to punch you in the face they could just claim "I did it because I can" and it'd all be OK?

If your real name is Bobby Brown I guess that would be the case.

I think it's more of a punch in the Gut to Apple, and quite frankly they deserve it.

[tech_head]

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I think it's more of a punch in the Gut to Apple, and quite frankly they deserve it.

Why? Because they won't license their crown jewels?

On another note.
I design ASICs and worked designing chpsets for PC's.
I've built many PCs in the past.
Currently unless you want a very specific gaming machine or want the experience of building your own machine, it's a waste of time. It is difficult to source quality components at cost that make a home brew machine competitive.

If you are upgrading a machine that is different.
Who do you call for support? What if some component doesn't play well with others......

I buy Apple machines because, what I want to do I can't do on Windows.
I run ProTools and Final Cut along with other software.
Runs better on a Mac.

Also when something doesn't work, I only need to call Apple support.

[jman3001]

I did call Apple support for irregularities I was having with my 2008 Mac Pro 8-Core a few months ago, but I didn't get any support. I just got a man from India telling me to reset the SMC and PRAM. That didn't solve my problems with the 8-Core, that included not waking from sleep (kernal panic), not properly shutting down (fans at high speed), and the machine coming on by itself at unusual times of the day. I found ways to work around 2 out of the 3 problems myself, but I still get the kernal panics after waking from sleep.
Before that, I called Apple support in 2001 about several machine problems I was having with my G5. CD tray door not closing, PSU acting up and causing noise, and RAM problems that caused the machine not to perform properly. I fixed everything myself after the Apple Support repair place I took it to, did nothing to solve the problems. They just gave excuses why they couldn't do the repairs, which I didn't need.
I built two Intel PCs using the subscribed parts and peripherals and literally have had no problems with them accepting Apple applications. I can't imagine anyone putting together a PC and not being able to buy and use the proper parts to run Mac OS X. If you're afraid to build one, you can have them built for you and your cost will still be $1000 - $1500 less than a Mac Pro 8-Core. You'll be using 3.2 Ghz Quad Core Processors, but once you clock them up, you'll be as fast as an 8-Core. You'll have faster bus speed than the current 8-Cores as well.
I guess different people have different wants and needs. I don't consider OS X a crown jewel, just a good operating system and since I happen to own a lot of software that will only run on OS X, I use it. If your running Pro Audio Applications, maybe the 64 bit Sonar suite running on Vista for PC may be the best one out there. I'm running Logic Pro, Nuendo, and Final Cut Pro, and my machines are handling everything just fine. No need to call anyone at Apple or Psystar.

[jragosta]

jman3001 said:

I didn't get any support.

You seem to keep missing the points. No one is perfect and no one ever claimed that Apple was, either.

Yet Apple is always far better than any of the competition in terms of tech support, customer satisfaction, and reliability, at least according to all the surveys done by PC magazines.

[Wondercow]

[quote name='jman3001']
>

Macworld said:

> So if someone were to punch you in the face they could just claim "I did it because I can" and it'd all be OK?


If your real name is Bobby Brown I guess that would be the case.

I think it's more of a punch in the Gut to Apple, and quite frankly they deserve it.

Way to completely avoid the question an attempt to obfuscate the point.

[Wondercow]

jman3001 said:

I don't consider OS X a crown jewel, just a good operating system

I don't think you understand the colloquial phrase the jewel in the (one's) crown or the more common derivative (something being) the crown jewel. It means (from OS X dictionary): the most valuable or successful part of something. OS X is certainly Apple's crown jewel: it runs Macs, iPhone, iPod Touch, it's the main reason people are interested in Macs again, and it allows Apple to move into spaces that are traditionally Unix-dominated.