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20- and 24-inch Aluminum iMacs (2009 Edition)

#57 User is offline   Biallystock Icon

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 05:48 PM

Stephen123 said:

Antiglare coatings applied by manufacturers and antiglare films applied by users do the exact same thing. The only question is the quality of the film. A commercial antiglare display has an LCD panel, a semi-ridged transparent surface, and an antiglare surface on top of that. It's just a question of finding a good one.

I can't vouch for http://www.photodon.com/ personally, but I've seen users recommend it in forums.


That is not true. the antiglare coating was a slight etching or roughening of the glass, the antiglare films are applied over the surface complete with all bubbles, dust and gaps between.

Of course if you have seen users recommend it in forums that would be proof positive.

The fact they were in a Forum guarantees they are not representatives of the manufacturers or anyone getting some gain from them. They are all high end graphic designers for whom such a precision and truly effective product has been designed.
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#58 User is offline   Mister_T Icon

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 06:13 PM

Sorry didn't want to waste my time, 'cause you still don't get it. South Park is not 3D. Flash, and Final Cut Video editing and DJing is not the same as 3D modelling and animation. Why did you include a link to the autodesk qualification chart which if you dug deep enough shows you could do Maya on an 2005 20inch imac cheaper than a current machine with the GT120, if you know what you were looking at. They haven't tested the new ones!!! Do you or any of your linked examples do any animation with high end programs like Maya, where the video card really matters? Show me you've run Maya's high quality rendering in the viewport on a 9400M imac and I'll say I'm wrong and order 25. Otherwise, give it up, 'cause YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!
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#59 User is offline   Stephen123 Icon

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 07:43 PM

You're right that antiglare plastics are not the same as antiglare glass.

I think it would be great if apple would release an LCD screen with antiglare glass. I've written them in the past urging exactly that and posted to various forums wishing they would.

But I don't think they've ever done that.

The very best antiglare surfaces are glass with a chemical coating on the back, often called 'Museum Glass". Tru Vue is a good example.

The question I was addressing is what people should do who have glossy screens and want to make them less glossy. For that purpose the best solution is going to be finding the best film. Getting Apple to come and etch your glass for you is not one of the options. I am dismayed that Apple doesn't sell matte iMacs. I am shocked that Apple doesn't sell matte cinema displays. But they don't. That leaves people needing a solution. A good plastic film is fundamentally similar to a matte plastic LCD surface. It won't be as good as Museum Glass, it won't be perfect, but it can have the same clarity as a standard plastic LCD display like the one in the 17 inch MacBook Pro.
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#60 User is offline   s4mb4 Icon

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 02:43 AM

i still do not understand why macworld is omitting the 4th iMac from the 2008 lineup.... where is the 20" 2.66 with ATI HD 2600 Pro dedicated graphic card.
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#61 User is offline   whitedog Icon

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 06:29 AM

I was originally skeptical about the difference between the displays in the 20" and 24" iMacs, but they turned out to be significant. I couldn't believe Apple would even use an inferior monitor in one of their products - but they do. It's a factor not often mentioned in spec comparisons where the emphasis is on operating performance. If you don't use the computer for color critical tasks, like photo editing, video processing or games, then the 20" screen is probably sufficient. Absent these kinds of work, the added RAM and hard drive capacity and processor speeds are probably irrelevant as well. But if you do any high-end work on your computer, the 24" screen is far superior, both as to color quality and working area.

As for moving application palettes to a second monitor, I used to do that in the old, CRT, days. But once I tried my first Apple wide screen, a 22" Cinema display, I was hooked - and wouldn't go back now if I got a second monitor for free. I now use a 24" NEC monitor with my Mac Pro. The difference is in the ergonomics - one wide screen requires less neck straining head turning than two standard monitors. Certainly there are situations where multiple monitors are necessary, for instance for stock traders and others who need access to multiple spreadsheets at once. But for Photoshop and Final Cut, one wide screen monitor is an excellent solution - in my opinion. Not to mention that it uses up far less space on a desk than any two monitors.

In respect to the lack of a significant CPU speed boost in the new iMacs, I suspect it is due to the pending availability of low power quad core Intel chips. They should show up in MacBook Pros later this year and will probably make their way into iMacs as well. Within a year, they will likely be the de-facto CPU in mid to upper range laptops and desktop computers like the iMac. One flavor or another of the core 2 duo has been around for two and a half years now, which is a long lifespan for any CPU chipset. Which also suggests that, if you don't absolutely need a new Mac right now, it's a good idea to wait for the CPU refresh. Likewise, OS X is due for an upgrade soon to Snow Leopard. Waiting a little longer to buy a new Mac means not having to pay $129 for the new OS.

The glare problem with the iMac is another issue that gets too little attention. One poster suggests that you get non-glare film for a glossy screen, but these solutions are not cheap (see: Photodon), nor easy to apply. On the other hand, my 24" NEC has a standard non-glare surface (not glass). Apple's move to glass in their laptops is a reasonable choice, given the added rigidity and strength glass provides. But, since they now offer a non-glass, non-glare screen for the 17" MacBook Pro, one for the iMac doesn't seem beyond reason. Admittedly, it's not as handsome as the glass screen MBP, but it is every bit as functional, if not more so. IMacs are commonly used in educational institutions where overhead lighting is commonly far less than optimal for computer use. A glossy screen iMac in a room full of overhead fluorescent lights seems to me to be an ergonomic nightmare scenario. Since Apple sells heavily to schools, I just don't understand their unwillingness to provide non-glare iMac screens - or access to non-glare film solutions, at least. Fortunately for most schools, these days they are unlikely to be able to afford an upgrade to glossy Aluminum iMacs. Maybe by the time the economy recovers, Apple will have come to its senses.
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#62 User is offline   Biallystock Icon

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 07:45 AM

There is a very good reason why Apple does not provide a non-glossy screen on the iMacs.

That is because so many users have been vociferously saying they need one and nobody tells Apple what to do.
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#63 User is offline   trip1ex Icon

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:56 AM

Stephen123 said:

Hi trip1ex -

Sorry, you're right. I looked for an antiglare film like like the one I have in 24 inch and it does not seem to exist.


I did see that 3m has a division called Vikuiti that makes anti-glare/protective/... films as well. Mainly for small lcd handheld lcd screens it seems, but they do have a 13 x22" sheet which should work on a 24" screen. And you can order free samples.

So I ordered a sample. Not sure I'll get the full sheet though. We'll see. Otherwise I think you have to order a box of 25 or something. :)

Not that the glossy screen bugs me. It really is back-lit monitors in general that bug me. Glossy doesn't seem to make this worse. I hope someone makes an e-ink monitor one of these years. I would use it as a second monitor to read text on.
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#64 User is offline   JDW Icon

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 01:52 PM

Biallystock said:

That is because so many users have been vociferously saying they need one and nobody tells Apple what to do.


I know some of you feel that way, but history says otherwise. Jobs is a hard headed nut, but constant pressure can make him crack. He has backed down and listened to his customer base before. And I remember him saying in past keynotes, "We heard you..." They made changes to the Dock years ago after so many complained. So it's a matter of staying vocal.

We need constant media attention on the glossy screen issue. And we need everyone to send Apple direct feedback about how things need to change. And no, for those of you who like gloss, I don't think we need to move back to all-matte. But Apple needs to offer both to appeal to most buyers.

I just read how Apple's sales this quarter are down, along with the market. But I for one would have purchased a new iMac had they offered one with a matte screen. I certainly am not alone.

Apple will eventually here us. We just need to stick to our guns and never give up, and don't listen to the gloss-lovers who continually call for us to give up. Just like the folks who were surprised to see FW800 appear on the Mac Mini, I want the gloss-lovers to be floored when they see Apple listening to the voices of matte screen proponents worldwide.

Keep up the pounding on Apple!
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#65 User is offline   Biallystock Icon

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 02:00 PM

What a memory you have JDW. :)

You can remember when user protests had some effect on Apple!

And now we have a 3D icon Dock complete with reflections!

Oh! when will we ever have rotating, transparent icons! Maybe after Snow Leopard.
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#66 User is offline   scottie Icon

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 03:40 PM

A very sensible assessment of the current iMac. I also think one should wait till quad core plus we do not have enough information about the current graphics cards ie GT120 and GT130.
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#67 User is offline   Mister_T Icon

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 05:41 PM

The GT 120 and GT 130 are rebranded
http://www.xbitlabs..../20081006212652NvidiaPlansAnotherReBrandingofGraphicsCards.html

It's the 9400M that is new to the imac. Its better than Intel graphics, but exactly how much better depends on the apps you run.

Waiting for the next model round would be nice, if I had the choice. I'm budgeted for a refresh now, and think the current product list is decidedly unimpressive.

If we are dreaming of the next model release what I would really like to see is a ~$1500 MacPro.

Example - pricing $US
Smaller Aluminum tower case w/450w power extra drive bay $180.00 generous for presumed cool mac looks see TigerDirect.com for comparison
Quad core only no 8 core Xeon 3500 2.66ghz. $350
Ram - ship 2GB $100.00
max ram 8 gb
Superdrive -$100
650GB ATA 3Gb/s, 7200 RPM $250
GT120 512mb - upgradeable video WOW WHAT A CONCEPT! $150
1 remaining open PCI slot - possible twinned video card
2 Firewire 800 $50.00
4 USB 2.0 - $55.00
10/100/1000 Ethernet $25.00
Airport Extreme $55.00
Bluetooth $20
OS X 10.5.6 $129.00

Total $1715 at online shopping price, lots of ports could be combined on an apple motherboard or from tower manufacturer for less. Doesn't include price for separate motherboard, guessing probably combined end user pricing of processor and ports would cover. I bet this could easily be combined for $1500.

24" Apple LED Monitor additional item at $899 (US)

Even at $1715 for the system the total approx $2615 gets me an upgradeable quad core system and upgradeable monitor, and I bet they could put it together for a lot less.

current high end not upgradeable imac - $2199 US
current into Mac Pro - $2499 + $899 LED Monitor $3398.00

What's your fantasy mac?
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#68 User is offline   NightshadesMac Icon

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 06:17 PM

I think you can forget about a full wireless keyboard with the num pad section. Apple just doesn't seem to think it makes sense to have the wireless version be that wide. They want it to be as compact as possible so they won't include the num pad on that keyboard.
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#69 User is offline   trip1ex Icon

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:04 PM

This iMac upgrade was more about the 24" iMac shedding $300.

I was happy about the price drop. I sold my 20" 2.0ghz iMac a few days ago (pocketed $900 :) ) and today I bought a 24" 2.4 ghz refurb for $1049 from Apple's site.
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#70 User is offline   scottie Icon

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 10:16 PM

Thanks. I knew that the GT120 and GT130 were rebranded versions of other cards but I had not seen the exact reference that you quoted although I had seen others. Also although the price in $ has held steady the # is very weak against the dollar so iMacs have become slightly more expensive in GB although not prohibitively. I suspect that the next refresh will be significant and may be related to Snow Leopard appearing but as always it is difficult to predict what Apple will do; as my iMac is 5 years old a wait of a few more months will not do any harm although I know I am doing the typical dithering and realise there comes a time when you actually have to make a decision !
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