[People_Eater]

richcon said:

PC does not mean "personal computer" in a generic sense, and it never has.

The "PC" was the name of a specific computer created by IBM in 1981

A quick search reveals:

http://news.bbc.co.u...ogy/4780963.stm

"The term PC had been in use long before IBM released its machine - but the success of the 5150 led to the use of the term to mean a machine compatible with IBM's specifications."

So the term "PC" meant personal computer in the generic sense before the IBM PC, and continues to be used in this way. If it wasn't a generic term, then shouldn't we still be using "PC Compatible" for machines not actually made by IBM?

In the day, that was how they were used. You had "IBM PC" and "PC Compatible" while "PC" meant any personal computer.

[philoking]

wow, not only who cares, but what does this have to do with anything too? This seems like people are reaching for something to argue about. lol

[richcon]

[quote name='People_Eater']
>

richcon said:

> PC does not mean "personal computer" in a generic sense, and it never has.
>
> The "PC" was the name of a specific computer created by IBM in 1981

A quick search reveals:

http://news.bbc.co.u...ogy/4780963.stm

"The term PC had been in use long before IBM released its machine - but the success of the 5150 led to the use of the term to mean a machine compatible with IBM's specifications."

I stand corrected. The use of the term "PC" to refer to the Windows platform does have its origin in the IBM PC, however. Maybe IBM taking over the name "PC" back then is like Microsoft taking over the word "Windows". That term existed before MS Windows to refer to those moveable GUI views on a computer screen, but when you say your computer runs Windows, you don't mean that it has a graphic interface capable of putting stuff in boxes.

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Neither are modern Windows PCs, so by your logic PCs are not PCs.

Last I checked, Window Vista is simply the latest version of a series of Microsoft operating systems that started with MS-DOS, which was commissioned by IBM and first shipped in 1982 on the IBM PC. Yes, the underlying technology has changed quite a bit, but that's what happens to a platform that's over 27 years old. :)

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If it wasn't a generic term, then shouldn't we still be using "PC Compatible" for machines not actually made by IBM?

We still do. We just dropped the word "Compatible".

[People_Eater]

richcon said:

Last I checked, Window Vista is simply the latest version of a series of Microsoft operating systems that started with MS-DOS, which was commissioned by IBM and first shipped in 1982 on the IBM PC. Yes, the underlying technology has changed quite a bit, but that's what happens to a platform that's over 27 years old. :)

But this is the fundamental mistake you are making. A computer being "IBM PC Compatible" has nothing to do with the OS or software. It's about the hardware.

As stated in the article I quoted - it was all about being "compatible with IBM's specifications." This has been entirely irrelevant for a long time now. IBM doesn't write the specifications for PCs today. These days it's more about Intel, but even then there are PC processors by AMD and others. It's quite amorphous, and what's supported is based largely on consensus with Intel, Microsoft, AMD, graphics card manufacturers, and various other standards and industry bodies.

As for the idea that being a PC means being compatible with Windows, a few things:

1. Apple uses Intel processors and architecture that can run Windows. So, isn't a Mac a PC? Modern Intel Macs are as much related to the original IBM PC as any modern "Windows PC" is.

2. PC hardware can run Linux and other Operating Systems. If I buy a PC from HP, then remove Windows and install Linux, does it suddenly become not a PC? I assure you that Linux users refer to their machines as PCs.

3. IBM themselves made an alternative OS to Windows for the IBM PC, it was called OS/2. I don't think that buying an IBM PC from IBM that was shipped with OS/2 instead of Windows made it not a PC.

[elizapi]

I especially enjoy having to approve windows updater and a variety of other operations that are not internet downloads, or even installed software, but M$ features that came bundles with the OS.

In other news, I spent 30 hours removing viruses from a friend's laptop 2 months ago, and I installed the best freeware AV software (since the AV software she'd paid for had been disabled by this virus. She knows to be careful and claims to follow all the basic precautions when surfing the 'net. Yesterday the virus was back. I spent an hour on the phone walking her through the purchase of her first mac.

[Fri13]

PC is invented and mentioned first time by IBM on their personal computer called "IBM PC". Their operating system was PC-DOS what MS sold to them and kept rights to sell it for others with name MS-DOS.

First personal computer is sold 1949 and it was called Simon. Since then everyone was talking about personal computers, microcomputers or home computers. After IBM got their personal computer "IBM PC" out to personal computer markets, it spread and IBM owned personal computer markets. The PC became false synonym for personal computers because IBM PC was reverse engineered and build up clone-PC's. (I bet you do not remember this!). All PC's on these days are from "IBM PC" design and standards (AT, XT). Apple did never use reverse engineered technology from "IBM PC" but own. They had own brand for their personal computer and it was called Macintosh. (LISA was before PC). Macintosh (in short term just a "Mac") is just a brand for personal computer like PC is brand for personal computer. Personal computers has existed long time before first PC was out by IBM. Facts does not change by mistaken the PC (=Personal Computer) to personal computer.

[Fri13]

No those ain't real PC's. But they use hardware what might have legacy PC designs or software (BIOS). It just have staid to live that those clone-PC manufactures personal computers are called as PC. Same thing goes for Macintosh. It ain't anymore all original parts (it still has some!) and BOTH, PC's and Mac's has evolved more close to each other. Both are brands for personal computers and such those need to understand. PC's aint' Mac's and Mac's ain't PC's. And PC's aint' Windows and Windows ain't PC.

It is just stupid and lie to try to pretend that Mac's are PC's. Both are just brands and no one mistakes Coca Cola and Pepsi, even that both are soda. PC's problem is that it was IBM's own brand for their own personal computer and PC means Personal Computer and not personal computer. You can not translate PC to any other language because it is a brand. You can translate personal computer because it is the definition.

[masroor]

I was not aware that Microsoft sold laptops. There is no Operating system comparison at all in these commercials. What makes windows better than any other operating system? I am not sure why the tech savy guy did not buy a laptop with LINUX on it. ???
Apple provides a hardware and software as solution. Windows OS just a software. The solutions are made by third parties. If HP was making these ads, it would make senses. Because they can claim they provide hardware & software package for a value. What has really Microsoft done here that makes their software stand out?
There is nothing stopping the Tech Savy guy to go home and make an Hackintosh out of the HP laptop.
In simple, it seems Microsoft seem desperate in making these ads as response to Apple successful campaign of "I am Mac".

[Herkimer]

1. If you get a blue screen because of a registry problem when you boot Windows, it is relatively easy to fix. All you need to do is remove the drive, stick it in a device to make it an external drive to a working Windows computer, find a certain hidden folder where the restore points are kept, change the permissions so you can open it, then find the copies of the registry files that are dated earlier than the problem and overwrite the current registry files with them. Put the drive back into its original computer, reboot it into safe mode, and restore the restore point from which you got the registry files. Reboot again and all is well, though you might have to reinstall any software you installed after that restore point. Now isn't that simple? And that is why, even though I'm a sys admin, I secretly use the Mac I keep below my desk out of sight.

2. Sadly, the cost of acquisition is more important than the total cost of ownership for people with lower incomes. If they have $500 disposable income, they have to buy a computer that costs that much. It is true that the thin trickle of money, over time, adds up to more than a Mac, but the initial cost is an insuperable barrier. Apple doesn't address that market and they have no economic or moral obligation to do so. It isn't Apple's fault that Windows sucks cash like a loan shark. That moral failing is on Microsoft's head.

[icebiscuit]

You know that Microsoft is grasping at straws with this add and only someone who doesn't have a clue about computers would buy in to this thinking...Cheaper is better or best. Wow they probably only buy at Walmart. Personally I started back in the day on a Radio Shack TRS 80, HP, multiple clones and have had a Mac tower for 10yrs in Nov. w/ upgraded processors and monitors and probably after this last Leopard upgrade have reached the limits of where it can go in the future. I have had only 1 issue that phone techs could not solve and a quick 1 hour trip to the Apple store fixed it and with out charge, How many times have you taken your PC to Microsoft and they fixed it for free? and how many times in the last 10yrs have you added another PC to the trash dump?
It is only mediocre when you are aware that it is and that is what most Windows users fall under not aware that your OS should work right or better.

[gregd548]

I've been a 'Microsoft user' since DOS was the only thing available, and have used every version of Windows released. Four weeks ago I switched to an iMac and have been very impressed with it. My latest HP computer is 6 months old and has already been back to HP for a new hard drive, to Best Buy Geek Squad 3 times because it wouldn't boot, and has had the OS 'restored' 3 times. HP and Microsoft's tech support is abysmal (as is Adobe,by the way): techs speak poor English, at best; problems not solved; and in one case they wouldn't even answer a simple question, and it already runs (when it does) noticeably slower. My Mac starts in 15 seconds, shuts down in 6, and run just as it's supposed to, every time. Yes, there's been a little learning curve, and I can't get it to print with the printers on my home network (the windows computers do just fine), but I think it's a function of my network, not OS X. It's still just as fast as when I first brought it home, and any questions I've had have been quickly answered by either the local Apple Store people or Apples tech support( well, except for the printing issue, which has them stumped). Vista is Microsoft's attempt to look like a Mac, but it just doesn't cut it, and they leave that out of the TV ads. At this point I plan to make our whole household running on Macs. I do thank Microsoft, HP, and Adobe though: their lack of customer support, poorly functioning equipment and software, and decidedly inefficient tech support convinced me to try a Mac and I'm SOOOO glad I did!!

[gludwick]

First, credentials: I've been a writer and creative director in advertising agencies for 25 years.

First, saying that Microsoft ads defy logic is like saying that ice cream continues to be cold. Successful advertising has never has been a craft of logic. It is a medium of emotion.

Microsoft's approach makes perfect sense in today's climate of economic FEAR (emotion again). And nothing motivates like fear (fear of bad breath, fear of being fat, fear of yellow teeth, fear of being poor AND fear of being a fool for paying too much.). Have you not noticed, spending too much for anything is NOT cool right now? Saving money is cool. Cutting back is cool. Hedging your financial bets is cool.

Now before you start prattling on about all the ways Windows can cost you more, or apple has better software, the bell has rung, so let class begin.

Advertising 101, lesson 1: Do not confuse advertising with reality!!

Advertising 101 lesson 2: Benefits sell, features do not.

We act out of self interest and we act emotionally almost all of the time. That's why Mac design has been so successful...it appeals to our emotions. it LOOKS good. It says something about our level of taste.

It's only AFTER we make emotional buying decisions that we use FACTS to back up (read rationalize) our choice. Cars are purchased exactly the same way. Looks and design are primary motivators...the facts (gas mileage, maintenance costs,etc) come afterwards when we're telling our friends all the smart reasons we made that purchase.

Apple has been selling off emotion and "coolness' for years. But right now, in this climate, that has become a harder and harder sell. Everyone is looking for value and looking for cheap. (BTW, cheap usually wins out over value because value is hard to measure and cheap is easy)

And that dear readers is exactly what Microsoft is doing in their ads. And no, they're not talking to gear heads and computer nerds like us. They're talking to the great unwashed. People who are already scared by the economy and who want the most their dollar can get them. (Note carefully WHO the buyers in these ads are)

People at that ad agency realize that you won't convince these people with facts and logic....you'll get PC's shopped by playing on their fear; by suggesting Mac's cost 50 % to 100% more than they need to pay to get the computer power and abilities they need.

The message is simple (and I believe it will work at least in this climate): Got money to "waste" on cool? Buy that Mac. Want the same or more computing power for half the price? A PC is the only "cool" choice for those being "smart" with their money.

Forget logic and forget all the facts you've been trotting out in support of the Mac. It's not that you're wrong, it's just that right now cost is king, saving money is cool, and by that measurement - especially in 60 seconds or less - PC's win that contest.

[mdawson]

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Herkimer wrote:

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1. If you get a blue screen because of a registry problem when you boot Windows, it is relatively easy to fix. All you need to do...

:^0 :^0 :^0 :^0 :^0 :^0 :^0

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Herkimer wrote:

>

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2. Sadly, the cost of acquisition is more important than the total cost of ownership for people with lower incomes. If they have $500 disposable income, they have to buy a computer that costs that much. (emphasis added)

Sorry, but I have to completely disagree with you here. First and foremost this argument is based on the false premise that people have to have a computer. That premise is categorically false. A computer is a convenience not a necessity. I spent the better part of the first 10+ years of my independent adult life without a computer because I could not afford one. Getting a Wintel PC that would cease suiting my needs within 2 years and losing productivity to MS-DOS and later Windows was also not an option; I do not settle for mediocrity for any reason.

Admittedly, I was fortunate enough to have access to public computing sites at my alma mater, but these days public libraries provide access to computers for the general public. Simply put, TCO is far more important for those with a limited income as they cannot afford the wastage.

[venividivici]

I'd appreciate an article titled:

StarWarsEpisode7 comments continue to defy logic

I still picture him like one of these Star Wars fans, but which one?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugk37TvIR8E