[trip1ex]

The Sony Universal Learning Remote is tough to beat. Not as fancy schmancy as a Harmony remote. And no lights. But it can control 8 devices, learn directly from other remotes and it does macros as well. Best of all it is $19.

Oh and seems to me one should just get an ATV (hacked or not) rather than get a Mini no? .

[leodavinci]

I haven't read the entire series of articles, so maybe my question has already been answered. Conflicting TV show schedules force us to miss one or more shows and/or not watch programs together.
I want something that's as easy to use as my old VCR... set the time to record, set the channel, it just works. No overpriced hardware with an obtuse UI, nor some insane monthly subscription fee. As far as I can tell, no one makes such a device.
Consequently, I have only one interest in a Mac mini as a media center, and that's for time shifting OTA digital/HD programming. Some minor (and I do mean minor) digital artifacting during playback is acceptable, but it should look pretty much the way it should as an original OTA broadcast.
Will a Mac mini set up with EyeTV tuner give me what I want?

[laleck]

thanks I'll definitely give this a try now

[tinbert]

I had the very same experience with black borders or cut off menu bar when toggling between overscan on/off.
But the problem was in a spurious setting on my Sony 32" 1080p TV: in German the setting reads like "full pixel" vs. "normal pixel". Switching to full pixel solved this problem and gave me "full HD". However the Intel Core (1) Duo has some problems with displaying EyeTV recordings at this resolution. I know, I should have used a Core 2 Duo ...

[hayesk]

Here's what I did and found it to be quite a usable solution:
- eyeTV hybrid on my desktop Mac - have it set to do all my recording and automatically put the recordings in iTunes
- digital terminal for the eyeTV (so I can record more than analog cable)
- bought an AppleTV for the TV.
-- the AppleTV now has a learning mode. I used one of the unused "devices" on the remote that came with my TV so I didn't need to buy another remote.
The downsides:
- I have to go to the Mac in another room to schedule a recording - but honestly, it's not that big of a deal, especially with eyeTV's program guide.
- the eyeTV does not have component inputs so I can't record HD other than the one over-the-air HD channel available (CBC). It'd really be nice if a version of eyeTV with HDMI or component input would be developed.
- I live in Canada so services like Hulu are not available to me - so I don't miss them.
Total cost was $409 (plus tax): $209 (CDN) for a refurb AppleTV, $50 for the SD digital cable terminal for the eyeTV, and $150 for the eyeTV Hybrid.

[hillstones]

Chris Breen said:

>

Quote

I've heard this "when you cancel" argument time and again and it shows a profound inability to fathom the benefits of subscription music services. If I cancel my Rhapsody subscription, I'll do exactly as you do -- listen to the music I own. What, you think it's Rhapsody or nothing?

At the risk of bringing up a locker room argument, I don't care how big your personal music library is, with Rhapsody, mine is bigger than yours. If I want to explore the catalog of a musician who sat in with Miles, stream nothing but Baroque music into my living room for an entire weekend, or listen to 20 versions of "Autumn in New York," I can do that. What will it cost you to duplicate my experience?

Chris, it is a valid argument. You substituted buying music for renting music. I never said anything about how big my personal music library is. In fact, over the past 5-10 years, it has not grown much at all. The reason: Most new music isn't even worth listening to anymore. You'll spend more money with the subscription fees over time. I also don't need to hear 20 versions of the same song. If I want variety, I can stream XM to my home stereo since I already have a subscription for the car. I can also stream the AOL Radio application, and that is free, including some HD Radio multi-cast stations.

Quote

> Apple has very bizarre requirements when it comes down to HD content...directly from the read me file: "HD movies from the iTunes Store are designed exclusively for Apple TV and may not be transferred to iTunes." >So tell me Chris, why should anyone set up a Mac Mini is a "Media Center" when Apple won't even allow HD content to be played through iTunes? Apple wants you to waste your money on their "hobby" called the AppleTV, which is very limiting.

You're behind the times. As of March 19 you can rent or purchase HD movies from the iTunes Store that can be played on your Mac or PC.

Chris, maybe you should read the iTunes 8.1.1 READ ME FILE. That is exactly where that quote came from. So you tell me who is behind the times, when Apple states that in their own requirements, misleading the consumer. There is already an outrage from people who buy HD content on their Macs and unable to play them on their connected displays due to HDCP protection. That was something Apple failed to inform their customers about, and still fails to disclose that issue.

Quote

> With TiVo Series3/HD, I can record HD content in the resolution of its broadcast, not iTunes compressed 720p format, or SD, since most content is SD. I can do both NetFlix and Amazon, if I decide to do so through TiVo. Now Amazon is offering HD content. I can program the TiVo on the web, and do Amazon from the web. Neither can be done with the AppleTV or a Mac Mini. I can view all my photos through TiVo, and my iTunes library is streamed through an Apple Express Base Station remote controlled by the iPhone.

How long does it take for the Amazon HD video content you rent to start playing on your TiVo? And you understand that it too is compressed 720p, right?

Chris, since the Amazon HD is brand-new, I haven't downloaded any content yet. It will take the same amount of time as Apple's HD offerings. You have to download that too. There is a difference: I don't need to go out and buy an AppleTV or set up a Mac Media Center in order to get it. When TiVo HD already does more than your Mac Media Center, I don't need to set one up (I have no interest in surfing the web on my TV).

Quote

> I cannot understand why people are wasting time ripping DVD's to a degraded compressed format, when they already have the disc and the player. They spend money on an HDTV only to degrade the video content they watch on it? They might as well hook up their old VHS and show it off.

Clearly A) You don't have small children who can smudge a DVD in next to no time. B) Have forgotten that iPods and iPhone play video. C) Don't understand the ins and outs of ripping a DVD. In fact, using a tool such as Ripit or Mac the Ripper, you can create a duplicate copy -- the Video_TS folder -- of the DVD on your Mac. It has all the menus, the extras, and resolution of the original. Same size too.

Chris, ripping DVD's to watch on your iPod/iPhone is clearly different than doing it to store on an AppleTV/Media Center to watch on your TV. I do rip them for iPhone use, not for watching the degraded ripped copy on my HDTV. Small children: Yes, that can be a PITA. That may be the only benefit since kids don't really care about the quality, and Disney loves to lock up their library for years at a time. I don't have the disk space for storing exact copies of DVD's on my Mac. Typically people set up a media entertainment center for the best quality experience, you know, Home Theater. However, they are ripping the DVD's with Handbrake to watch a degraded version on their "high quality" entertainment system. That's what doesn't make sense.

> Based on your findings, "Your mini will either over-fill the bounds of your HDTV?s screen (meaning the menu bar will be cut off at the top) or under-fill it if you turn off the Overscan option in the Displays system preference. I?m fine with the black border that appears around the Mac?s screen with Overscan off. You may not be. Streaming video doesn?t look as good as video coming from a cable TV box, satellite receiver, or OTA antenna. The HD content looks better, but not so much better to my eyes that I?m willing to pay more for it or wait longer to receive it." Ouch. That pretty much says it all. Why would anyone waste money to set up a media center when you have to deal with those video issues? Doesn't that prove the point that it is useless?

Some people (and I'll include myself here) prefer watching movies to pixels.

I prefer watching a movie without black borders around the entire screen, or an overscan that crops out the movie. I will get better quality with the original DVD, BluRay Disc, or watching a movie on HBO-HD. I can get up off the couch to put the disc in. At least the AppleTV is designed to be connected to an HDTV without these video issues. You do have valid points, as do I. I think people would be disappointed after they spent all the time and money to set up a Mac Mini on their TV, only to realize it wasn't really intended for that purpose with the overscan issues, etc. Even though the AppleTV is limiting, I think that does a better job feeding content to an HDTV than a Mac Mini Media Center would.

Of course the other issue that affects AppleTV, Mac Minis, and TiVos is a hard drive crash. Would hate to see that happen and lose all that data if it wasn't backed up on another drive.

[Chris Breen]

hillstones said:

Chris, it is a valid argument. You substituted buying music for renting music. I never said anything about how big my personal music library is. In fact, over the past 5-10 years, it has not grown much at all. The reason: Most new music isn't even worth listening to anymore.

You sound like my parents when I was 17. "Today's music is awful!" Nonsense. There's some terrific music being produced today. If you had a subscription music service like Rhapsody you'd have a chance to expose yourself to some of that music instead of listening to the same old same old and declaring it the only music worth listening to.

Quote

Chris, maybe you should read the iTunes 8.1.1 READ ME FILE.

Because, of course, that's the single source for this information. (I mean, other than our site and thousands of others.) Just because a Read Me file says something doesn't make it so.

Quote

Chris, since the Amazon HD is brand-new, I haven't downloaded any content yet. It will take the same amount of time as Apple's HD offerings.

No, it won't. On a Series 2 TiVo you have to wait for the entire movie or TV show to download. This can be an hour or more depending on the speed of your Internet connection. On a Series 3, it takes about 10 minute before content is ready to watch. Apple TV shows SD content over my 3 Mb DSL connection in less than a minute. HD content takes about 5 minutes.

Quote

However, they are ripping the DVD's with Handbrake to watch a degraded version on their "high quality" entertainment system. That's what doesn't make sense.

Of course it makes sense. People want content that's easily accessible and are willing to overlook a few artifacts. Are you telling me that you avoided VCR and DVDs because they didn't offer the same experience as a movie theater? Just how uncomfortable is that pea under your mattress?

[Biallystock]

jeffvan said:

Apple, are you listening?

Yes we are listening, and the answer is NO!

What was the question?

[bookfever]

leodavinci said:

interest in a Mac mini as a media center, and that's for time shifting OTA digital/HD programming. Some minor (and I do mean minor) digital artifacting during playback is acceptable, but it should look pretty much the way it should as an original OTA broadcast.

We acquired a Mac Mini, an external 750gb Firewire 400 HD and 3 EyeTV+ tuners at MacWorld Expo 2008 to replace $80/Mo DirectTv/Tivo and drive a new HDTV. Multiple tuners are not supported by Elgato, but they work just fine. We record 3 over the air channels at once while watching a previous or current recording. (In fact you can watch more than one window or channel at the same time, but the video gets jerkier the more player windows you have open while also recording) You will need to divide your over-the-air antenna signal with inexpensive UHF splitter, and perhaps depending on your signal strength need a better antenna or an amplifier or amplified splitter. You will also probably want a powered USB hub for so many USB tuners, keyboard, mouse etc.

Also unadvertised is that EyeTV software supports many other brand USB tuners. Our original EyeTv "plus" tuners with the extra built-in processors for fast ripping ran very hot. Since we do not rip to other formats very often, we wooted 3 referbished Pinnacle 800e USB tuners for 1/4 the price. They run cool and work very well. The EyeTv Tuner preference menu shows support for lists of specific digital tuners from: ATI, Huapauge, Logitec, Miglia, Networx, Plexor, SCM, Terratec,Twinhan, Digital Everywhere, and Huawei.

Although each EyeTv Tuner came with the EyeTv software, we only need one installation on the Mac Mini to run the 3 tuners. We had 2 unopened software packages left over.

We use Mira From TwistedMellon.com to add an EyeTv menu to Apple's Front Row remote control software so that most common EyeTv scheduling and viewing is controled with the Apple Remote. There is also related software to automatically mark and skip commercials in recordings.

The quality of our Mac Mini EyeTV setup is very good, but not nearly as good as the built in Samsung plasma HDTV tuner. We get varied black level pixelation and some jerkyness with certain channels - regardless which brand tuners we use with EveTV.

Hope this is useful.

[leodavinci]

Bookfever, thank you!

Yours is just the kind of info I've been trying to find out.

I don't think we'll need multiple tuners. Our TV viewing just entails having several shows (but just two a night) that are on opposite each other, three to four nights out of a week. One of us usually misses out watching a favorite show in hi-def.

Although time shifting is my primary reason for wanting a Mac mini set up (aside from being a Mac user who doesn't want to get bogged down in dealing with a Windows HTPC), I have to say I'm also looking forward to being able to surf and email from the comfort of my recliner when there is nothing worth watching on TV.

Thanks too for the heads up about Mira. Being able to do the basics thru Front Row with an Apple remote will surely make this easier for my wife.

[skippertgore]

This has been quite a read! Thanks to all for the great information, and to you Chris for a great series of articles.

I have one question which I have not seen addressed:

What do you do if you have more than one TV? A MacMini is great for the main HT, but what about the TV in the bed room? Would I have to have multiple MacMini's set up or is there an easier way to have an older SD set "tune it in"? or is another HD set required?

Thanks for any thoughts.

Matt

[Biallystock]

When the Mini first came out I said wow perfect for a combined media centre and computer rolled into one. It would invade the living rooms of the world and steal away a large chunk of Window's monopoly. After all who would buy a Microsoft PC when you already have a computer in your entertainment suite?

But then Apple failed to follow through and put arbitrary restrictions on what you could play and how you had to connect to existing TVs and HiFis and it all fizzled.

I'm still waiting for a simple media centre that records and plays back whatever material you have and does so easily around the house.

What a wasted opportunity this has all been.

[EDronkert]

Is that really a Firewire drive? The one you link is advertised as having a USB connection. Additionally, the Firewire category on the same website does not list Seagate drives. In my experience, WD makes the cheapest 1TB FW800 drive with the My Book Studio Edition. Online price ?135 in Europe.

[Biallystock]

I can vouch for the WD drives, having many of them from several 320Gb Passports up to a 1.5 Tb Raid.

The later whilst an extremely fast FW800 has some issues with slow wake-ups but otherwise they are all extremely good value and I am very happy with them.

I particularly enjoy having the 3 color coded Passports for backups, feeding material to my DVD burner and running on my Digital TV.

Which brings me to what is a good economic set-up media centre that just works without hastles. I just bought a cheap but good Tv/DVD unit for our bedroom which also accepts USB devices/Memory cards and plays a wide range of video formats including DivX and XviD. The set-up took 5 minutes, took minimal technical knowledge to get it to just do what it is supposed to and I just wish Apple would get its head out of its arse and produce a product that does the same.

Total cost for TV/DVD/Media player US$268.