[pointbeing]

We currently have 14 Macs (all G3's & G4's running OS 9.1-9.2.2, except for 1 PowerComputing tower runnng 8.6) that are connected to the network on a Win2000 server, using Dave 3.1. We are gearing up to migrate the G3's & G4's to OSX, and I was wondering what we need to look out for networking-wise We've been told that we will no longer need AppleShare to connect and have even been told by sone in our Computing Support that Dave may not be needed either. Since these machines are used for print production, it is imperative that the migration to OSX & networking goes as smoothly as possible with little to no down time.

Any feedback/suggestion?

[Altos]

While OS X does have some native support for the microsoft protocols, it is still not as complete/easy as Dave may be. For example, getting to shared drives on a Windows PC requires typing cryptic share names or using SambaBrowse (which is a separate freeware program).

Using shared printers is also rather hard to configure. You need to activate the lpd service on your Win2k Pc (well hidden but not too hard) and configure LPR printers on the client Macs (a rather frustrating experience).

Since a Mac upgraded from OS 9 to OS X still has the OS 9 available (as an alternative start-up OS), it would be safe to upgrade one of them, configure shares and printers using the native OS X stuff and try it out. You can always reboot in OS 9 after the test. Activating LPD on your Win2K server is not dangerous (but may require a reboot and inserting the Windows CD).

You should also know that, in order to use applications in OS X you have to get the OSX compatible versions. Otherwise you'll be running them out of the "Classic" environment (OS 9 inside of OS X) which would defeat the purpose.

[Nobody]

"While OS X does have some native support for the microsoft protocols, it is still not as complete/easy as Dave may be."

I disagree with this.
I understand that this might an issue for some home users, but any administrator should be able to set this up without problems.

I am using a Mac on a NT network, and both printing and filesharing where pretty easy to setup.

smb://computername/share works, if you know what the computername is and what the share is. Administrators shouldn't have any problems with this. You can't browse though, but it's fairly easy to make aliases.

When it comes to printing, it might get worse though. But, being able to setup LPR printing is something any administrator should be able to do.
I can print both via LPR and AppleTalk on this NT network, and it didn't really take more than 5 mins to set it up.

Moral of the story, OS X can do it, can you?

Tor

[Altos]

Tor is right. Of course an administrator can figure it out easily (Dave is not realy required). Unfortunately using a wintel PC at the hearth of a Macintosh LAN is just begging for the extra hassle and cost of hiring or training a network administrator. However, if you have an administrator anyway, he should be able to manage the networking stuff for you (if you can stand going through him every time a new share or printer is made available).

I feel however that there is no compelling reason why this kind of stuff should only be accessible to network administrators. The whole idea behind the Macintosh is to make things easy for non-IT people. If only an administrator can manage such a simple task as sharing printers and files, then the target has been missed. I do hope that Jaguar will address this usability issue. In the mean time, SMB Browse does make accessing shares easier.

"OS X can do it, can you?"
Challenging the person will not make the problem go away. If it did, we'd still be using command prompts for everything. "The system can do it, can you (remember all that geeky stuff) ?" That's an old unix mentality that has kept it away from the desktop until OS X came along.

BTW, pointbeing, with OS-X you will indeed have the opportunity to make your Mac network TCP/IP only which should make your IT guys happier (especially if they're PC or Unix people).

[Nobody]

Of course OS X can network fine with NT. It's a matter of how painless the setup is. Without additional sofware, it becomes a pain in the ass, quite frankly, to use everyday. However, Thursby updated Dave (v.3.1) for OS X. It works much more smoothly, and I highly recommend it for something that is critical. Between the built in tools and Dave, the network will work as well, if not better, in OS X than it did in OS 9.

-Jim

[Joe_Blow]

pointbeing, have you considered the new Xserve server from Apple? Apple targeted this server for environments like yours. It's not a bad deal at $3000 and offers unlimited clients.

[pointbeing]

WOW! I didn't expect responses so fast. Thanks so much!!

Let me give you all a little more background here. We are an "independent" dept. of a major university (we do design & printing for university depts. as well as off-campus businesses). We are also one of the very small "islands" of Mac users on campus. The general push has been to replace all Macs with PC's due to security reasons (at least that is what we are told). Any remaining Macs have had to be proven to be essential for operations to stay on campus. We have no say in our network or server options & we get little to NO support from our comupting support people for the Macs - we have to handle all that ourselves. This is why I came here to get some advise, cautionary suggestions, etc.

To answer Joe Blow - we would love to go to the Xserver, but we are not allowed to have our on server on site. Our comp. support is extremely controlling over what we are able to do - we can't even load our own PC software, they have to do it!

Do I understand that there is little difference between an NT server network & a 2000 network as far as connecting Macs & PC's together? If not, I really need to know what to expect from a 2000 network.

Thanks again for responding so quickly & please, anymore input will be well appreciated as I will be the one leading the switch to OSX & the one everyone will run to if there are any problems. I want to make sure I won't fall on my face here.

[Joe_Blow]

Pointbeing, you are at a major university! There MUST be UNIX/Linux camps somewhere on campus, maybe Computer Science or Engineering or Genetics - somewhere where they do serious computing rather than email administration like the Microsoft pinheads. Seek advice from these folks. You should align your dept with them as much as possible. Mac OS X, as you probably know, is based on BSD UNIX. These folks will support you and may even be interested in the OS themselves.

Those above, who have personal experience running OS X on a Windows network, can help you better than I can with the details of how to configure OS X.

[Nobody]

As far as using printers we have 4 different postscript printers and OS X prints fine to them all through our network. I can print via AppleTalk and TCIP.

With that said I would not go to OS X yet! In just a few months Jaguar will be out and it promises work seamless with all types of networks. If you buy OS X for all 14 Macs now you will just have to upgrade shortly. You might want to have one of them running so you can get familiar with using it.

[pointbeing]

Joe Blow - Thanks for the suggestion of contacting Computer Sci. or Engineering (we are known to be one of the top Engineering Schools). I hadn't thought about seeing what they have done or plan to do. I think there are even a couple of Mac labs in the Mathematics department as well.

If things go as I have heard they will, I should have a Mac free, not in production, to install OSX just to get familiar with all its in & outs.

To the rest of you who have replied - thank you again for your continued input!! It's so nice to be reminded how we Mac people support each other!!!!