[mjtomlin]

Well that is true ... and those types of comparisons have pretty much been the case when people would compare cheap Wintel boxes with Apple's offerings. Apple did however lower their price point. It's not about the value for the money, it's about the base sticker price. That's all most people recognize, even after adding up all the extras, which most people believe to be a common practice anyway.
This is also about CURRENT PC owners not needing to make a larger investment in order to get their hands on an Apple system. They have the monitor, keyboard and mouse already. The size of the mini is also key - with the help from a KMV switch, it will easily fit into a PC user's current set up without the need for much extra space. Whereas, if they bought an eMac or iMac, they would need another desk to set it on. These are the consumers Apple is hoping to target the Mac mini with. If you need a whole new system, then the mini is clearly not for you... for $300 more you can get an eMac.
Which brings me to something I've noticed in the "main stream" media ... Those who are reporting on the Mac mini always seem to only mention the iMac at $1299 was the only other option for those interested in getting a Mac. No one seems to mention anything about the eMac, which starts a whole $500 less at $799. Isn't that odd?
One other thing on the size and style of the Mac mini ... it can go where almost no other PC can ... nicely placed in your home entertainment center next to the stereo and TV. (Did anyone else notice how iDVD can now take a movie and burn it to a DVD with a single click of a button?)

[mjtomlin]

In reply to:

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originally posted by Rubaiya:
Glad to hear that it is attractive to PC users who are more used to tossing the computer and keeping monitors etc.
A couple of points for PC users. They may be disappointed when they can't connect their old PS2 keyboard and mouse and possibly will notice a much slower Finder and processor. The keyboard and mouse won't matter much,, they're cheap to replace. The visual detractions of a cheap PC monitor and the slow down in file selection and scrolling may however hurt the Mac's reputation.

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I could see where that might be an issue except...
I went home to visit my parents and needed to jump online to check my e-mail. They just recently bought a new computer, I don't remember the brand, but I do remember the CPU speed; 2.8GHz! Why do I remember the speed of the CPU? Because I couldn't freaken believe that a 2.8GHz system could run so darn slow!!! This "super fast" system was running almost as fast as my iMac G3 333MHz running Panther.
My first reaction was, "There is something seriously wrong with this computer!" As it turns out, the system was plagued with malware, spyware, and viruses. My parents mentioned that it started slowing down a couple of weeks after they got it. So they had been using this system for a couple of months with it running as slow as it was.
I don't think the performance of the Mac mini will bother my parents or anyone who else suffers from the above issues. And to say that this is an isolated or uncommon problem is just not true; I can't keep track of the number of people who want me to "fix" their PC once it starts slowing down.

[moose_n_squirrel]

Wow. Apple finally comes out with a low-cost Mac and people still find a way to bash it.
FireWire 800 missing? How can this possibly be a big deal? It's not like FireWire 400 is slow, or that hard disks are being bottlenecked by FireWire 400. Particularly the laptop-class hard drive in the mini. Clearly a luxury item...ax it.
Underpowered? Compared to what, at $499? How can a 1 GHz G4 be wimpy when the machine is not too far in spec from the "pro" PowerBook G4 with which millions of Mac professionals seem rather satisfied?
No keyboard, mouse, monitor? Good lord, there are many who would see that as a HUGE feature. Those of us who, upon using the Apple keyboard and under-functional one-button mouse, would put them in the drawer and replace them with a real keyboard and 2-button scroll mouse while muttering how Apple made us pay for their keyboard and mouse we don't even want to use.
iPod shuffle is bad unit pricing? Just the other day I bought the small bottle of water instead of the big one because the big one was simply too big and heavy to carry around all day, and they were about the same price. I was actually knowingly paying for the space and weight savings. There is always a market segment that values that, Apple knows it, and are just waiting for the bean counter geeks to catch up.

[d00d]

In reply to:

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No keyboard, mouse, monitor? Good lord, there are many who would see that as a HUGE feature. Those of us who, upon using the Apple keyboard and under-functional one-button mouse, would put them in the drawer and replace them with a real keyboard and 2-button scroll mouse while muttering how Apple made us pay for their keyboard and mouse we don't even want to use.

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I've actually always been one of those people (in the case of keyboard and mouse). I use a Macally iceKey and a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer because I like them better. I look at the Apple equipment with disdain because I shutter to think I paid for them even though I don't use them.

[Tau_Myx]

what the heck are they thinking about with a mere 32 MB video memory?
So what terrible thing will happen if I try to run iTunes or Safari or Flash or iMovie with only 32 MB of video memory? My G3 with 2 MB video memory could do this. Is this of use for anything other then games?

[d00d]

In reply to:

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So what terrible thing will happen if I try to run iTunes or Safari or Flash or iMovie with only 32 MB of video memory?

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The computer gods will become vengeful and mess up your permissions requiring endless sessions of "Repair Permissions". /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Mac_Envy]

First off, thanks alot for answering my questions, Bigh. I've now decided that the mac Mini is probably going to be sitting on top of my antec P160 case (http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=81600#) very soon after jan. 22. As a college student, the imac mini seems like an excellent deal, I get to use my gaming rig pc, but have access to the mac os and creative suites, all with the same monitor and keyboards. Plus, when i go home for the summer I can load everything i'll need onto my oversized hard drive (the mac mini) and simply onnect it to my monitor, keyboard and mouse I use back home for my nintendo pc(http://www.junkmachine.com/forum/kb.php?mode=article&k=11), which uses the mini-itx Via Epia nehemiah m10000 mobo. I've always been interested in macintosh computers, which Neal Stephenson has described as the "Luxury cars" of the computer industry, but haven't yet had the cash or proper motivaiton to buy one. As clarificaiton about what I said about quake 1 running on the mini-itx board, i was jsut using quake 1 as an example of smooth running programs I have found to work on my mini-itx board. The thing about mini-itx processors also is that Via develops them in-house, making them quite a bit different than a regular pentium processor, also the processor speeds misleading, Via processors are incredibly fast at security encryption and other things I have'nt really used, so as a mainstream pc alternative, the mini-itx is rather ineffecient, but is a great choice for building a media-center pc, (where you can hide anywhere or incorporate into your entertainment center) or a novelty small form factor pc. I'm sure that my mini-itx board could run programs faster than quake 1, I just haven't tested much on it. Sorry for the misunderstanding, which seemed to confuse some folks.

[Eideard]

Had to wait for registration to finish to wander into here. But, then, I'm really late to this dance, anyway.
After 21 years of being a loyal M$oft customer [online all that time, too], I recently joined the few members of my family experimenting with Linux. Lousy service [offshored and otherwise] and even worse security prompted the change. Plus, I wanted to experiment with small form factor machines.
After a few months with a Shuttle PC [quite satisfactory -- nice folks to do business with] and a couple of flavors of Linux, I must say the folks at KDE seem to be conjuring a pretty good package. But, like everything Linux, there's that couple percentage points of requirements that no one seems to have gotten round to caring about -- and you wander like Diogenes through various geek forums seeking a solution.
Having worn my brain to a frazzle over HD-TiVo-D* questions through the CES weekend, it just occurred to me, last night, to see what had resulted from the kickoff to MacWorld.
Result? I've ordered a Mini w/the [slightly] faster processor, 80gb HD, 512mb, a couple of other goodies. They're still talking like 22nd January to arrive. My father-in-law is getting a damned near brand new Shuttle PC loaded w/Linux to stuff into his 5th-wheeler.
And I'm looking forward to playing with some new software and being able to comm successfully with the WXP machines on my home/office network. Who knows? Some of those may disappear in years to come.

[Nobody]

It would be nice if the Mac Mini could be configured with a bigger hard drive, say 250 Gb, so that it could be used as an inexpensive little file server for home networks.

[edahmed]

Well its was amazing to get at last a peak at the mini imac (also seems to be extensively modeled around the Ipod design).
Well basically its a super machine but being a system designer i found three things wrong with it even at 499.
1. No Audio in or digital audio out (dude u r apple the creaters of ipod u can do better its all aobut audio and video for the main target audience)
2. only 32MB vga memory, 64MB wouldn't have hurt neither apple or the consumer
3. could have should have included keyboard atleast!!!

[d00d]

In reply to:

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It would be nice if the Mac Mini could be configured with a bigger hard drive, say 250 Gb, so that it could be used as an inexpensive little file server for home networks.

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Considering the prices that Apple charges for BTO upgrades, you'd probably still be better off using an external firewire drive attached to it. I think I also read that it uses a laptop hard drive, though I can't find any supporting evidence on Apple's site.

[LeoO]

Although, what the heck are they thinking about with a mere 32 MB video memory? That one, has me shaking my head in utter disbelief.
My girlfriend bought an iBook six months ago with 32MB of VRAM. And my parents bought an eMac a few months earlier with the same. Both new. Neither has noticed or complained.
So in a Mac context it's not inconcievable that a $499 machine would have 32 MB VRAM in Jan 2005.

[bigh]

If you're serious about audio, you'd probably want a USB or FireWire audio input and output, anyway. Watch for peripherals like M-Audio to make a matching, stackable I/O box for this. If it's quiet, it'll be audio heaven.
Also, watch for hard drive manufacturers to do the same. Matching, stackable boxes. Apple ought to do it as well...
In my mind, Apple NEEDS to bump the base RAM of all their machines to 512MB immediately. They're really doing a disservice to themselves in allowing crippled machines to go out the door.

[LionMage]

In reply to:

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Has anyone else noticed the little caveat in the technical specs for the MacMini?
"Memory upgrades MUST be performed by an Apple Authorized Service provider."
No other spec for either desktop or laptop Macs says that. So - one has to assume that it voids the warranty to add your own RAM?

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According to what I've read on Macintouch and other sites today, it would appear that although Apple is strongly recommending (virtually demanding) that you get RAM installed by an "authorized service provider," it was confirmed that they won't void your warranty for opening the machine up to swap the RAM. It was also confirmed by Apple reps at the show that the chassis is pretty easy to open up to install RAM.
Having said all that, I think shipping these things with a paltry 256 MB of RAM is going to be a serious performance limiter. These things should have a minimum of 512 MB, especially for any kind of "Media Center" application. (You can tell that Apple is pushing the media center aspect by explicitly mentioning on their web pages that the Mac mini connects easily to HDTV televisions that have DVI, and to other TVs with their S-video adapter.)