[Luci]

For your consideration:
G3 B&W 300Mhz (Rev 1 Yosemite) #SG915144G9D
120 Gig Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 ATA/133
512MB PC 100 Ram
17 Apple Studio Display (CRT)
Apple B&W G3 Keyboard (USB)
Apple mono-mouse
OS 9.2.2 (including Firmware update for Rev. 1 G3)
OS 10.3.8
No third party software.
No PCI cards added in.
A few days ago I installed 10.3.8 via Software Update.
Before the install I ran permission repair until no repairs were reported.
After the install I repeated permission repairs until no repairs were reported (most of the reported repairs dealt with MS Entourage, which I find interesting as I do not have any third party software on the G3)
On restart I got a Kernel Panic message (You should restart your computer)
I restarted and received the same message after each of four consecutive restarts.
On the fifth restart I got a blue screen and a frozen cursor. No functionality of the keyboard, mouse, power or restart buttons.
I rebooted from the Panther (retail) install disc (#1) and started disc utilities. I repaired the disc using Disc Utility and was told that it checked out OK.
Next I attempted permission repair on the hard drive but I got an error message saying : Disc utility has lost its connection with the disc management tool and cannot continue I was instructed to quit Disc Utility but the user interface became frozen, I had no control over the keyboard, mouse, power or restart buttons.
I unplugged EVERYTHING and then plugged it all back in (cpu, monitor, mouse and keyboard, nothing else), held the c key down and pressed the power button on the front of the G3. After about two minutes there was a grey Apple logo with a spinning spoked(?) wheel in the bottom center of the screen. After observing this behavior for twelve minutes I decided to take a long hot shower. The shower was every thing I hoped it would be. Forty-five minutes later I was back in front of the G3, which sometime during my shower, went into Kernel Panic mode (were hanging here.). Restart (still from Panther Disc) attempt ends in blank, blue screen.
I unplugged the cpu because the power/reset buttons were unresponsive. When I plugged it back in I was able to get Disc Utility to erase the Hard Drive and then I re-installed Panther. I ran the software updates, repairing permissions before and after each update session. On the last permission repair after installing 10.3.8, I got an error message saying : Disc utility has lost its connection with the disc management tool and cannot continue I was instructed to quit Disc Utility but the user interface became frozen, I had no control over the keyboard, mouse, power or restart buttons. I unplugged the cpu because the power/reset buttons were unresponsive. When I plugged it back in I was able to get Disc Utility to erase the Hard Drive and then I removed the Maxtor hard drive.
When I got these G3s (there are five of them) they all had 6 gig Maxtor (model #90648D3) Apple branded (they got this itty bitty Apple logo on em) Hard Drives. Before I removed them I was careful to update the OS software on each one, so that IF I were to run into trouble with a Hard Drive I would have these working drives that would at least allow me access to my back up files stored on other computers on my LAN. All of the 6 Gig drives (five all together) were updated to OS 10.3.7 using the Software Update control panel and showed no need of any further updates before being removed from the system and stored in Static Proof sleeves, in a wooden box.
At this point I want to emphasize that between November 10th 2004 and about February 25th 2005, I was running 120 Gig Maxtors in these G3s with no problems what so ever. The trouble started when I installed the SecUpd2005-002Pan.pkg and the 10.3.8 update. Wanting to be sure that I wasnt fighting a bad Hard Drive, I installed one of the original Apple Hard Drives in the G3, which worked like a charm UNTIL I ran Software Update and installed the updated software. I repaired permissions before and after installing each package(!) After I installed 10.3.8 and tried to run Repair Permissions, I got the Disc utility has lost its connection with the disc management tool and cannot continue message with ALL the afore mentioned dysfunction. Kernel Panic, grey screen, blue screen, I had no control over the keyboard, mouse, power or restart buttons. I unplugged the cpu because the power/reset buttons were unresponsive.
If at first you dont succeed, try the Apple Support site where thousands of lost souls seek the cool light of reason at the feet of genius, or something like that. There I learned that one must occasionally zap not only the PRAM but the Power Management Unit as well. I did these things. I followed the directions. You would not be reading this if it had worked!
Have I shown that there is a problem with 10.3.8 on 300Mhz, Rev1, B&W G3s?
(Is there any value to this?)
I was able to recreate the dysfunction using all original Apple equipment (YES EVEN THE RAM!!!)
I still have ONE functioning Rev. 1 G3 with a Maxtor 120Gig in it. The difference between it and the other four is that I NEVER installed 9.2.2 or the Firmware Update that goes with 9.2.2 (they were all running OS 8.5 when I got them). It IS running 10.3.8 and a whole heap-o-third party software and RAM.
My opinion is that there is a compatibility problem between the OS 9.2.2 Firmware Update and 10.3.8
How do I delete firmware?
Can I roll back my OS to something that works without doing an Erase and Install (again)?
Is there any point to continuing and if so, in what direction?
My observation is that the Company that manufactured my computer has asked me to install software that makes their product unusable. I dont recall anything about that in the EULA.

Thank you for your patience.
Luci

[Dr-NiKoN]

In reply to:

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How do I delete firmware?

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You don't.

In reply to:

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Can I roll back my OS to something that works without doing an Erase and Install (again)?

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Yes, it's an option called 'Install in place'.

In reply to:

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Is there any point to continuing and if so, in what direction?

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Show us the panic log, or better yet, call Apple and send them your Apple System Profiler report and panic log. This will cost you money though.
A cheaper alternative would be to post information here, we might be able to see something.
Post panic log.
Post console log.
Post system log.
Hold down command+v on a system that panics, and see what it's doing before it panics, then tell us. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Luci]

Thank You!
That's the most concise advise I've had yet.
It's almost 4:00AM here, gotta sleep sometime.
I'll try posting a Panic Report tomorrow night.
My most recent attempt filled the screen with two lines of code. The first mentioned that there was no server specified for the ARG (?) code. The second indicated that something called a Core Dump was being initated.
I restarted and now we get as far as the "Login Window Starting" and no further.
Others have indicated the need for an IDE controller, suggesting that my situation is complicated, if not caused by disc corruption. In the last twenty four hours I have begun to think there might be some truth to this idea.
BUT MOSTLY: Thank you for your reply!
Luci

[DPG4450Guy]

From reading what you posted, you did a permissions repair PRIOR to clicking the throbbing blue RESTART button Apple warns you about right after the update is complete within the installation window?

[Luci]

No,
I did the install, restarted AND THEN tried the Permission Repair.
Is this what's known as a learning experience?
Thanx for your attention
Luci

[revcon]

Did you ever get your problem resolved?
Here's where I see the likely problem/culprit (and I'm surprised you haven't had data corruption/other probs prior to this; although you might have and didn't realize it; if you haven't you've been very lucky) > No PCI cards added in
Xlr8yourmac.com has numerous posts, updates, recommendations and dire warnings about this for Rev 1 B/W macs and the data corruption problems on the PCI bus, plus inability of the bus to recognize high capacity drives. I also have one, a B/W G3-350 rev 1 (altho upgraded cpu, plus added pci card to which I have a couple of maxtors on board).
Additionally there are serious firewire corruption problems in G3s and some of the oxford chipsets which I have experienced in the original built-in firewire bus/hardware. I no longer have my 120 gb external firewire drive hooked thru my internal/built-in firewire bus -- i had severe data corruption; it's now hooked into my added firewire/usb card and I rarely turn it on unless i have to use it; if i do, i make sure i turn it on before i boot the computer.
I happen to have a brand new, unopened, in box, os x-compatible ata-133 pci card available if you need to buy one (i bought two in case one didn't work and I haven't sent the other back--still under warranty, etc)

let me know if this helps and/or if you want the card, more info, etc.
good luck!

[Luci]

Resolved?
You mean like in "happy camper"?
No.
I have been convinced that I need a PCI controler card for the Hard Drive.
I'm considering the 6880M, which I like because it is available and allows the use of up to four drives (who'd-a-thunk you could put four 250 drives in a B&W G3) but I do not plan to use the drives in a RAID configuration so the 6880M might be overkill.
How many drives will your PCI Card allow?
Thanx again for your time.
Luci

[revcon]

re: How many drives will your PCI Card allow?

4 drives -- 2 masters, 2 slaves (i.e. a master on each plus a slave on each).
have you read the drive database reports as well as the b/w G3-pages at xlr8yourmac.com? best source of info & advice on this issue.
http://forums.xlr8yo...h.drivedb.lasso
you can actually leave most stuff blank to start with to get the most relevant info, but be sure to definitely drop-down/fill-in these options:
Step 1: Select a Drive Type: hard drive
[Optional] Select an Interface Type: IDE PCI Card
[Optional] Select a Mac Model: Apple BW G3
Search


I also believe they note that the G3 won't really get any of the extra bus speed bang on a 6880 card if I'm not mistaken, (and as you mentioned it's a RAID card) but you should be sure to search/sort for pci or controller cards and comments for the B/W G3 in the reader's database reports and the special reports. Mike posts comments to the reader's comments in the database and links to his specific pages for BW G3 pci cards, including

http://www.xlr8yourm...E/yosemite/IDE/
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/IDE.html
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/IDE/acardata133raid/acardata133raidupdate.html
http://forums.xlr8yo...out=FaqList&FaqCategory=Controllers%20IDE%20PCI%20Cards&-sortfield=DateSubmitted&-Sortorder=descending&-maxrecords=100&okaytopost=yes&-search
http://forums.xlr8yo...D=33781&-search
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/OSX/osxidecards.html#storytop
http://www.xlr8yourm...l99/070699.html
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/OSX/osx[/u]ide_cards.html#storytop
Also, another tip: you know how to use google to search a specific site, right? in the google search window/slot, use the terms you want to search for and include this > site:xlr8yourmac.com
for example >
b/w g3 rev. 1 pci card site:xlr8yourmac.com
OR
b/w g3 rev 1 data corrupt site:xlr8yourmac.com

BTW: this is a new ACARD AEC-6280M, ata-133 IDE w/OS X support. (acard manufactures the sonnet & SIIG cards as noted throughout the xlr8yourmac site)
good luck!