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Because print publishing combines a complex set of coordinated tasks often performed by different people, workgroups of editors and designers typically rely on various techniques to indicate information about file status. But such manual methods may not be enough for some projects. That’s why Adobe offers InCopy CS2. more
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InCopy CS2
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#2
Filipe_Martins 
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Posted 24 August 2005 - 12:15 PM
The author made some good points and raised interesting questions, just a few minor issues left me head-scratching.
Galen keeps complaining about what he calls "sluggish performance".A closer look at the screenshots likely reveals the true reason behind his frustration with InCopy CS2: the performance of his Mac.
The screen shots are indeed very explanatory. Being so minimalistic, they would easily fit the profile of an iMac G4/iBook or anything with less than 17" screen.So this is not really a system InCopy was designed to run on.
All of the screenshots apparently have been shot on Panther, the pre-Tiger OS. You can see this in the blue 3D Apple logo in the upper left corner (Tiger has a flat apple).
Forced onto this rather minimal system configuration, InCopy of course did not fly. It is supposed to run on a an editor's or designer'sstate-of-the-artworkstation, not an iMac G4.
It is not that it works better, it is that you cannot "manage" assignments in inCopy CS2 at all. You must play by the rules and leave it up to the InDesign user, by whom the 'host file' (the file which hosts the InCopy stories) is locked.
The InCopy plug-in in InDesign can even restore assignments which have been accidentally deleted.
Nope. An assignment is not a story but a collection of stories which can be assigned in one go to any specific user. This is the No. 1. difference from the previous release, which was only able to cope with single stories.
This would be fairly laborious indeed! Luckily, there is no reason to suffer so much. Right-Clicking a selection of boxes will do. It reveals some very handy commands.
You can also streamline the setup by using commands from the menu "Edit > InCopy".
This is a good point.
Our experience with this version on Tiger proves the contrary.
For the last few weeks, our team has been editing and typesetting some very large projects with InCopy CS2 and InDesign CS2, among them a 600+ pages full-colour publication for offset printing (high-resolution). InCopy CS2 added an unexpected bump to our productivity.Let me explain.
Wehave been deploying various versions ofInCopy since its first release (1.0) somewhere back in 2001. We switched from Quark to InDesign 1.0 back in 1999, we have been deploying it ever since and we did live through all its initial whims (such as left-out plates in version 2.0, corrected in 2.02).
To the author's credit, InCopy took a long time to live up to its promise of making InDesign team-savvy. All previous versions of InCopy were more or less merely well-meant attempts at an editorial workflow. InCopy CS2 is different. It represents a quantum leap in performance and ease-of-use in more ways than one. It introduces the concept of assignments (managed by InDesign) for a ground-breaking usability. It brings much-improved stability and--last but not least--major speed improvements.
This is indeed unacceptable, another good point. But it is certainly not InCopy CS2 to blame :-)
... anything less than gigabit ethernet is truly--both for InDesign CS2 and InCopy CS2--way too slow. But this is not an obstacle since all Power Macs, PowerBooks and Xserves have gigabit ethernet built-in. So all you need is the right cable cat. 6 or 7 and a hub or a switch. (Cat 5e cables frequently deliver only speeds close to 100 MBit instead of gigabit ethernet).
If they are running it on (re)tired 15" iMacs, it may well be so...
:-)
Cheers
Filipe Martins and Anna Kobylinska
Galen keeps complaining about what he calls "sluggish performance".A closer look at the screenshots likely reveals the true reason behind his frustration with InCopy CS2: the performance of his Mac.
The screen shots are indeed very explanatory. Being so minimalistic, they would easily fit the profile of an iMac G4/iBook or anything with less than 17" screen.So this is not really a system InCopy was designed to run on.
All of the screenshots apparently have been shot on Panther, the pre-Tiger OS. You can see this in the blue 3D Apple logo in the upper left corner (Tiger has a flat apple).
Forced onto this rather minimal system configuration, InCopy of course did not fly. It is supposed to run on a an editor's or designer'sstate-of-the-artworkstation, not an iMac G4.
In reply to:
InCopy CS2 works better when used to edit text than it does to manage assignments.
InCopy CS2 works better when used to edit text than it does to manage assignments.
It is not that it works better, it is that you cannot "manage" assignments in inCopy CS2 at all. You must play by the rules and leave it up to the InDesign user, by whom the 'host file' (the file which hosts the InCopy stories) is locked.
The InCopy plug-in in InDesign can even restore assignments which have been accidentally deleted.
In reply to:
(...)from withinInDesign, you first must indicate which stories are available (InCopy calls these assignments),
(...)from withinInDesign, you first must indicate which stories are available (InCopy calls these assignments),
Nope. An assignment is not a story but a collection of stories which can be assigned in one go to any specific user. This is the No. 1. difference from the previous release, which was only able to cope with single stories.
In reply to:
(...) a fairly laborious process requiring you to click inside each story in your document and add it to the Assignments palette.
(...) a fairly laborious process requiring you to click inside each story in your document and add it to the Assignments palette.
This would be fairly laborious indeed! Luckily, there is no reason to suffer so much. Right-Clicking a selection of boxes will do. It reveals some very handy commands.
You can also streamline the setup by using commands from the menu "Edit > InCopy".
In reply to:
(...) Moreover, that still requires the designer to specifically run the Update Content command.
(...) Moreover, that still requires the designer to specifically run the Update Content command.
This is a good point.
In reply to:
"Note that InCopys performance is strongly affected by your networks speed, so remote users may find it frustratingly unresponsive."
"Note that InCopys performance is strongly affected by your networks speed, so remote users may find it frustratingly unresponsive."
Our experience with this version on Tiger proves the contrary.
For the last few weeks, our team has been editing and typesetting some very large projects with InCopy CS2 and InDesign CS2, among them a 600+ pages full-colour publication for offset printing (high-resolution). InCopy CS2 added an unexpected bump to our productivity.Let me explain.
Wehave been deploying various versions ofInCopy since its first release (1.0) somewhere back in 2001. We switched from Quark to InDesign 1.0 back in 1999, we have been deploying it ever since and we did live through all its initial whims (such as left-out plates in version 2.0, corrected in 2.02).
To the author's credit, InCopy took a long time to live up to its promise of making InDesign team-savvy. All previous versions of InCopy were more or less merely well-meant attempts at an editorial workflow. InCopy CS2 is different. It represents a quantum leap in performance and ease-of-use in more ways than one. It introduces the concept of assignments (managed by InDesign) for a ground-breaking usability. It brings much-improved stability and--last but not least--major speed improvements.
In reply to:
I found it could take 10 to 15 seconds for both InCopy and InDesign to reflect any status changes.
I found it could take 10 to 15 seconds for both InCopy and InDesign to reflect any status changes.
This is indeed unacceptable, another good point. But it is certainly not InCopy CS2 to blame :-)
In reply to:
Note that InCopys performance is strongly affected by your networks speed
Note that InCopys performance is strongly affected by your networks speed
... anything less than gigabit ethernet is truly--both for InDesign CS2 and InCopy CS2--way too slow. But this is not an obstacle since all Power Macs, PowerBooks and Xserves have gigabit ethernet built-in. So all you need is the right cable cat. 6 or 7 and a hub or a switch. (Cat 5e cables frequently deliver only speeds close to 100 MBit instead of gigabit ethernet).
In reply to:
(...)so remote users may find it frustratingly unresponsive.
(...)so remote users may find it frustratingly unresponsive.
If they are running it on (re)tired 15" iMacs, it may well be so...
:-)
Cheers
Filipe Martins and Anna Kobylinska
#3
annemarie
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Posted 24 September 2005 - 09:30 AM
Egads, where to start. I'm a big fan of Galen's writing but from the review, it's fairly obvious InCopy is not his strong point.
I am glad I'm not the first replier on this, anyway ... I agree with everything in Felipe and Anna's reply.
InCopy is not the solution to appending filenames or draft version numbers; that's Version Cue. Which can be used with InCopy ... allowing writers to save versions of the stories they're editing in the layout ... but is not required. So the intro/set up of this review was confusing.
Instead, the main gist of InCopy is that it solves the problem of multiple, successive paper-proofing rounds where writers cut/add/edit their articles after seeing it in the layout for the first time, and the designer having to make those changes himself, then doing another paper proof round and so on. InCopy lets editors edit to fit (or even write to fit) in the first place, because they're working in the layout with the actual text styles that will be used. They don't have to wait for a proof to make its way over to them. And multiple editors can do this at the same time to the same layout.
Disappointed that this was left as is; as the new feature is actually a lurking problem that most of my IC CS2 clients are avoiding. (Though I'm sure it's great for certain workflows.) The problem is that there's no builtin, automatic way for images that editors import to be uploaded to a central location, such as a server. Imagine an editor placing an image from his local hard drive or a CD. The designer needs the high-res image to get a press-ready file. So this only works if images are already in a central location before the editor places it. IC gives you no warning or reminder about this.
The Notes feature was in CS1 as well, it's not new, though a couple new commands have been added in CS2. And as in CS1, InDesign users can also use Notes ... in face one of the main reasons to use notes is for editor/designer communication, not just among editors.
Sort of correct, but does this make it clear that editors are viewing the layout and working in InDesign text frames as they're editing individual stories? It's true that they can't "mangle the layout" ... heh ... which is a big draw with clients whose editors are using Quark or ID ... giving them IC and the designers ID definitely solves this problem. But with IC/ID, editors seldom if ever open individual InCopy stories (which is what the first sentence seems to say). They do check out individual stories, but always within an ID layout (or assignment -- a subset of a layout) that they've opened in IC.
That's for sure, and good point about the PDF manual. It's exactly the same as the online help, though. A good place for help is the InCopy U2U forums on the Adobe web site.
Yes, correct, and very good point. In actual practice, though, it's not that common for a designer to be working on the exact same text frame while an editor is editing it in InCopy. Often the designer puts up the layout or assignments for the editor/s to "have at it" while they work on other projects ... it's something that the production team works out when moving to ID/IC.
Not correct, the editor just needs to save the changes they're making. They don't need to check the story back in. As soon as someone saves a change, everyone else working on that same file (editors and designers) are notified that updates are available to certain stories or spreads. They can ignore these if they want.... like if the feature story on page 9 has been updated and they're editing the classifieds in back.
Not quite, both Galley and Story view let you show/hide all stories that are editable in the file you've opened (the layout or the assignment). The difference is that Galley shows you accurate line endings (per the layout); in Story, lines break when they hit the window edge; similar to the Story Editor in InDesign. All three views provide copyfit info/readout. Only Galley/Story show you overset text.
Well yes, of course ... if the designers are using InDesign CS2 the editors need InCopy CS2 (and vice versa).
But a big reason for upgrading to CS2 in the first place, for existing ID/IC workgroups, is the new Assignments feature ... in CS1, editors had to open the entire layout in InCopy just to edit a dinky little caption, which contributed to the often sluggish feel. With the new Assignments palette, designers can create a middleman of sorts ... just a spread or two of a layout containing related text frames that an editor would want to work on.
Like an exported story file, an exported Assignment is a small and speedy XML file. This is the big news with InCopy CS2, in addition to its support of all the new InDesign CS2 text-related features (footnotes, dynamic spell check, style mapping of placed word files, etc.).
AM
www.senecadesign.com
I am glad I'm not the first replier on this, anyway ... I agree with everything in Felipe and Anna's reply.
In reply to:
Because print publishing combines a complex set of coordinated tasks often performed by different people, workgroups of editors and designers typically rely on various techniquessuch as appending file names with initials or draft version numbersto indicate information about file status. But such manual methods may not be enough for some projects.
Thats why Adobe offers InCopy CS2, software that lets multiple users work on text in an InDesign CS2 layout. InCopy
Because print publishing combines a complex set of coordinated tasks often performed by different people, workgroups of editors and designers typically rely on various techniquessuch as appending file names with initials or draft version numbersto indicate information about file status. But such manual methods may not be enough for some projects.
Thats why Adobe offers InCopy CS2, software that lets multiple users work on text in an InDesign CS2 layout. InCopy
InCopy is not the solution to appending filenames or draft version numbers; that's Version Cue. Which can be used with InCopy ... allowing writers to save versions of the stories they're editing in the layout ... but is not required. So the intro/set up of this review was confusing.
Instead, the main gist of InCopy is that it solves the problem of multiple, successive paper-proofing rounds where writers cut/add/edit their articles after seeing it in the layout for the first time, and the designer having to make those changes himself, then doing another paper proof round and so on. InCopy lets editors edit to fit (or even write to fit) in the first place, because they're working in the layout with the actual text styles that will be used. They don't have to wait for a proof to make its way over to them. And multiple editors can do this at the same time to the same layout.
In reply to:
InCopy CS2s unique new features include the ability [...] to place graphics in empty frames, so editors can now add or replace icons, logos, and other images without bothering a designer.
InCopy CS2s unique new features include the ability [...] to place graphics in empty frames, so editors can now add or replace icons, logos, and other images without bothering a designer.
Disappointed that this was left as is; as the new feature is actually a lurking problem that most of my IC CS2 clients are avoiding. (Though I'm sure it's great for certain workflows.) The problem is that there's no builtin, automatic way for images that editors import to be uploaded to a central location, such as a server. Imagine an editor placing an image from his local hard drive or a CD. The designer needs the high-res image to get a press-ready file. So this only works if images are already in a central location before the editor places it. IC gives you no warning or reminder about this.
In reply to:
InCopy also now lets you place text markersessentially nonprinting notes la Adobe Acrobat comments, which is very handy for communication among editors.
InCopy also now lets you place text markersessentially nonprinting notes la Adobe Acrobat comments, which is very handy for communication among editors.
The Notes feature was in CS1 as well, it's not new, though a couple new commands have been added in CS2. And as in CS1, InDesign users can also use Notes ... in face one of the main reasons to use notes is for editor/designer communication, not just among editors.
In reply to:
Editors and copy editors use the standalone InCopy software to work on individual stories. This allows multiple editors to work on different pieces of a layout simultaneously and prevents them from mangling the layout if they were to use InDesign instead.
Editors and copy editors use the standalone InCopy software to work on individual stories. This allows multiple editors to work on different pieces of a layout simultaneously and prevents them from mangling the layout if they were to use InDesign instead.
Sort of correct, but does this make it clear that editors are viewing the layout and working in InDesign text frames as they're editing individual stories? It's true that they can't "mangle the layout" ... heh ... which is a big draw with clients whose editors are using Quark or ID ... giving them IC and the designers ID definitely solves this problem. But with IC/ID, editors seldom if ever open individual InCopy stories (which is what the first sentence seems to say). They do check out individual stories, but always within an ID layout (or assignment -- a subset of a layout) that they've opened in IC.
In reply to:
InCopy can be difficult to understand, and the lack of a printed manual doesnt help. (The PDF manual is a decent primer, if youre willing to print it out or switch back and forth on screen.)
InCopy can be difficult to understand, and the lack of a printed manual doesnt help. (The PDF manual is a decent primer, if youre willing to print it out or switch back and forth on screen.)
That's for sure, and good point about the PDF manual. It's exactly the same as the online help, though. A good place for help is the InCopy U2U forums on the Adobe web site.
In reply to:
Changes to text are not dynamically reflected in the layout, so hypothetically, a designer could be resizing a text frame to accommodate a story length at the same time a copy editor is cutting text to fit the space.
Changes to text are not dynamically reflected in the layout, so hypothetically, a designer could be resizing a text frame to accommodate a story length at the same time a copy editor is cutting text to fit the space.
Yes, correct, and very good point. In actual practice, though, it's not that common for a designer to be working on the exact same text frame while an editor is editing it in InCopy. Often the designer puts up the layout or assignments for the editor/s to "have at it" while they work on other projects ... it's something that the production team works out when moving to ID/IC.
In reply to:
An editor must complete all copy changes, then check the story back in before the designer can see the changes.
An editor must complete all copy changes, then check the story back in before the designer can see the changes.
Not correct, the editor just needs to save the changes they're making. They don't need to check the story back in. As soon as someone saves a change, everyone else working on that same file (editors and designers) are notified that updates are available to certain stories or spreads. They can ignore these if they want.... like if the feature story on page 9 has been updated and they're editing the classifieds in back.
In reply to:
The galley view shows all stories and lets you hide or show individual stories, while the story view shows just the story youre working on.
The galley view shows all stories and lets you hide or show individual stories, while the story view shows just the story youre working on.
Not quite, both Galley and Story view let you show/hide all stories that are editable in the file you've opened (the layout or the assignment). The difference is that Galley shows you accurate line endings (per the layout); in Story, lines break when they hit the window edge; similar to the Story Editor in InDesign. All three views provide copyfit info/readout. Only Galley/Story show you overset text.
In reply to:
If you previously used InCopy CS with InDesign CS, your primary reason for upgrading to the CS2 version would be to stay compatible with the InDesign upgrade.
If you previously used InCopy CS with InDesign CS, your primary reason for upgrading to the CS2 version would be to stay compatible with the InDesign upgrade.
Well yes, of course ... if the designers are using InDesign CS2 the editors need InCopy CS2 (and vice versa).
But a big reason for upgrading to CS2 in the first place, for existing ID/IC workgroups, is the new Assignments feature ... in CS1, editors had to open the entire layout in InCopy just to edit a dinky little caption, which contributed to the often sluggish feel. With the new Assignments palette, designers can create a middleman of sorts ... just a spread or two of a layout containing related text frames that an editor would want to work on.
Like an exported story file, an exported Assignment is a small and speedy XML file. This is the big news with InCopy CS2, in addition to its support of all the new InDesign CS2 text-related features (footnotes, dynamic spell check, style mapping of placed word files, etc.).
AM
www.senecadesign.com
#4
Fixx
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Posted 28 October 2005 - 11:13 AM
Typical layout has several separate text boxes, stories, per page - layout can have over hundred pages... It is quite an effort to assign all of them available. Would be easier to "assign all" if such command were available.
Editors do not necessarily have state of art macs, after all they mostly write, and processing power is assigned usually for layout and image processing.
Editor may not be in the same local network, using InCopy over internet, over ADSL, may be slow, I guess. I assume InCopy works over internet too, not only in local network?
Anyway, this software may be a great productivity boost... gotta check it closer.
Editors do not necessarily have state of art macs, after all they mostly write, and processing power is assigned usually for layout and image processing.
Editor may not be in the same local network, using InCopy over internet, over ADSL, may be slow, I guess. I assume InCopy works over internet too, not only in local network?
Anyway, this software may be a great productivity boost... gotta check it closer.
#5
macnews
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Posted 29 October 2005 - 06:47 AM
I am glad some people have posted comments on how IC CS2 works for them. I manage a higher ed media center and we implemented Incopy in to our workflow a year ago. It has worked well to keep editors out of the designers hair and is a big productivity improvement - not to mention cost savings. No more printing out 5 different versions of one page. Now, all editing is done via IC and one final proof gets printed for a final checking.
As to the changes made in CS2, I am wondering if any of the problems were fixed or at least reduced. Primarily, I am speaking about the random issue of stories not always updating, even after they have been checked in. This doesn't happen often but when it does, it tends to happen to every story that is checked out. If this was fixed, or made even more reliable, that would be worth the upgrade.
As to the changes made in CS2, I am wondering if any of the problems were fixed or at least reduced. Primarily, I am speaking about the random issue of stories not always updating, even after they have been checked in. This doesn't happen often but when it does, it tends to happen to every story that is checked out. If this was fixed, or made even more reliable, that would be worth the upgrade.
#6
Filipe_Martins
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Posted 14 November 2005 - 07:38 PM
Hi macnews,
You made a good point.
Never experienced that one again.
The current setup has proved stable, no surprises whatsoever.
The stable setup as of today:
[*]InCopy CS2 Version 4.0.1
[*]InDesign CS2 Version 4.0.1
[*]Mac OS X 10.4.3 (10.4.2 worked fine, too)
InDesign CS2/InCopy CS2 on Mac OS 10.4.2/10.4.3 proved to be a reliable setup.
Admittedly, it took Adobe some time to develop such a good release, but well now it's there. And that's what really matters.
It is the stability and a bunch of new features which make this upgrade so worthwhile.
Among the most useful enhancements is the new "Position Tool" for defining the visible area of a cropped image in InCopy CS2. InCopy CS2 also supports automated text macros, standalone copy fit... and yes, stories update reliably when they are checked in.
If you attempt editing without having checked out the story, InDesign or InCopy will offer to do it for you:
"You must check out the contents of this frame in order to make changes Check out now?" [OK by default]
And before you close a document by mistake, the app will remind you that your files aren't yet checked in. It all adds up to a considerably more relaxed day.
We support your choice of InCopy CS2 as the centerpiece of your editorial workflow. The upgrade is worth it.
We wish you a stunning success with your higher ed media center!
Filipe and Anna
In reply to:
It has worked well to keep editors out of the designers hair and is a big productivity improvement - not to mention cost savings. No more printing out 5 different versions of one page. Now, all editing is done via IC and one final proof gets printed for a final checking
It has worked well to keep editors out of the designers hair and is a big productivity improvement - not to mention cost savings. No more printing out 5 different versions of one page. Now, all editing is done via IC and one final proof gets printed for a final checking
You made a good point.
In reply to:
As to the changes made in CS2, I am wondering if any of the problems were fixed or at least reduced. Primarily, I am speaking about the random issue of stories not always updating, even after they have been checked in.
As to the changes made in CS2, I am wondering if any of the problems were fixed or at least reduced. Primarily, I am speaking about the random issue of stories not always updating, even after they have been checked in.
Never experienced that one again.
The current setup has proved stable, no surprises whatsoever.
The stable setup as of today:
[*]InCopy CS2 Version 4.0.1
[*]InDesign CS2 Version 4.0.1
[*]Mac OS X 10.4.3 (10.4.2 worked fine, too)
InDesign CS2/InCopy CS2 on Mac OS 10.4.2/10.4.3 proved to be a reliable setup.
Admittedly, it took Adobe some time to develop such a good release, but well now it's there. And that's what really matters.
It is the stability and a bunch of new features which make this upgrade so worthwhile.
Among the most useful enhancements is the new "Position Tool" for defining the visible area of a cropped image in InCopy CS2. InCopy CS2 also supports automated text macros, standalone copy fit... and yes, stories update reliably when they are checked in.
If you attempt editing without having checked out the story, InDesign or InCopy will offer to do it for you:
"You must check out the contents of this frame in order to make changes Check out now?" [OK by default]
And before you close a document by mistake, the app will remind you that your files aren't yet checked in. It all adds up to a considerably more relaxed day.
In reply to:
If this was fixed, or made even more reliable, that would be worth the upgrade.
If this was fixed, or made even more reliable, that would be worth the upgrade.
We support your choice of InCopy CS2 as the centerpiece of your editorial workflow. The upgrade is worth it.
We wish you a stunning success with your higher ed media center!
Filipe and Anna
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