[veggiedude]

Right, and the difference between OS X 10.3.9 and 10.4.0 == 0.01
If memory serves me right, I think 10.3.9 came after 10.4, for the people who didn't yet upgrade to Tiger, so maybe that isn't such a good example.

[jmincey]

The point is that to upgrade from 10.3.9 to 10.4.0 is a significant leap -- notwithstanding the that fact by conventional decimal notation the difference would be only 0.01. But as others point out, standard versioning doesn't submit to this kind of thinking -- and, again, this is my very point -- well, part of it anyway.
I repeat that iTunes 5 seems very impressive in my preliminary test drives. I just don't think it qualifies as a major release and thus I think it should carry a version number accordingly -- which reflects its incremental move forward.
In the case of OS X, Apple is committed to staying with the "10" so the second number is indicative of major leaps forward. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if one day Apple debuts version 10.10.0 of OS X, though I should think a much more advanced kernel architecture would be around by then.

[Adwiz]

In reply to:

---

however, with iTunes 5, the sidebar is not visually set off from the main window as much as it was before and there is no longer the ability to grab iTunes by its side borders to move the window -- because there are no such borders any longer.

---

Actually, you can still move the sidebar window. It just doesn't have the 5-pixel "handle" area anymore. If you put the cursor at the edge of the sidebar it turns into the "move" cursor and you can change the width. Apple seems to be playing with their user interface guidelines here, but I tend to agree with the change in this case because every pixel of horizontal space is important in iTunes.
If you meant that you can't move the entire window because the vertical edges are gone, just grab the edge of the top or bottom shaded area -- does the same thing as it did before. I welcome those few pixels of extra width.

[chewygoat]

I have to agree that iTunes 5.0 is a huge disappointment. Any new version of iTunes and/or iPod firmware that does not include gapless playback is, by definition, a huge disappointment. Seriously, just when will they get gapless playback into iTunes and iPod? Ever? Every new, significant release that doesn't have it, I and others note our disappointment with the lack of gapless playback and the iTunes apologists slam us. Up to and including version 4.9 a common answer was always "this is just a point release, we'll get that kind of stuff in 5.0, so stop whining and just wait". Now that 5.0 is here the apologists say that it is actually just a point release too, so stop whining and just wait for... for what? When will we get a non-"point" release? I guess I am getting use to disappointment when it comes to iTunes, so iTunes 5.0 being a disappointment shouldn't really have been much of a shock. None-the-less I found myself hopeful when I saw that number. Sigh.
As for those saying, "it's free, what are you complaining about?" The problem is that it is free, from Apple and comes with the operating system. They killed music player competition on the Mac, and this is what we get for it - lackluster release after lackluster release of iTunes. If they are going to kill the music player competition, then IMHO they are obligated to keep theirs on the leading edge. At first they did keep it on that edge, but that tailed off. Now we need competition again, it would seem, because iTunes 5.0 is a disappointment, as was 4.9 and many versions prior.

[chewygoat]

Regarding the sidebar - there is a grab box at the upper right of the sidebar, to the right of the word "Source". Drag it to resize the sidebar.

[Ronald_Schoedel]

For two years, since iTunes 4 came out, I have been waiting, hoping, dreaming, of a change to iTunes that Apple--in it's dim-witted, short-sighted, unbelievably naive lack of concern for its loyal paying customers--completely refused to implement in iTunes 5. Apparently Apple doesn't give a damn about pleasing customers and making iTunes the best it can be. What grievous ommission did Apple commit?
THEY DIDN'T CHANGE THE COLOUR OF THE NOTE ON THE iTUNES ICON!!!! This marks the very first time in iTunes history that Apple has not changed the iTunes icon with the introduction of a new full number release. Remember pink notes? blue notes? purple notes? Apple, are you listening???? NONE OF US WANT TO STARE AT THAT GREEN NOTE UNTIL VERSION 6.
God please make them change, or I swear I will be switching to Linux immediately. I am tired of companies that refuse to listen to the customer!!! </sarcasm>
Ronald Schoedel

[vaporman]

I haven't seen anyone post about unusual behavior with this update. The "Kind' has changed on several of my files. I had a lot of books on tape/vinyl that I digitized and converted to audiobook format. When I updated to iTunes 5 some of them mysteriously showed up as 'Protected AAC'. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. They are still .m4a files. And not all of them are protected - just a few.
I also noticed that when I synced my iPod about 750 songs were updated, meaning that they must have shown up as changed.
Very curious behavior. Makes me a little nervous.

[hillstones]

Everytime something comes from Apple, the only thing people can do on this board is whine and complain and make accusations about Apple and the products they create. How about some POSITIVE feedback? The dumbest complaint is about the version number and how dare Apple go from iTunes 4.9 to 5.0 and not have 1 million new features to make it worthy of a 5 release. Sorry, but the 5 has no significant value in any software release, it is just another number.
I personally think the new version of iTunes is worthy of the 5.0 release. They had to catch it up to the rest of the iLife suite of programs. I am surprised there were so many 4.x releases. And those releases were minor enhancements.
For 5.0 we get:
1) Streamlined Appearance: Moving in the right direction. I don't care about sidebars for moving windows. It is a cleaner look, and I love the slight hint of blue in the Playlist column to offset the main list of music. I also like the nice little markers that appear in the time elapsed bar as the song plays from start to finish. Song and artist/album are now displayed on individual lines for easier identification when playing. All a nice touch.
2) Search Bar: A HUGE improvement, especially in the Music Store! If you haven't tried it, give it a try, you'll wonder how we lived without it. Searching for an artist or song, and then easily checking for other media (books, podcasts, etc) is awesome. I don't need it combined with Spotlight when it is contained in iTunes.
3) Parental Controls: This one caters to the families, but a nice addition. It is good that they have added control to block the Music Store (unwanted purchases), or explicit content from younger listeners.
4) Playlist Folders. A pretty cool idea. Have a Party folder, then narrow down the types of Party Playlists for different occasions. I am sure an iPod firmware update will carry over the folder feature.
5) Smart Shuffle. A VERY cool idea! There are times when I get a "double-shot" from the same artist, but now I can control the frequency of those "Two for Tuesday" occurrences!
6) Sync from Outlook (Windows). Add one for the Windows users...now they can sync their contacts, etc from Outlook. It is good to enhance the "ease of use" for the Windows customers.
7) Lyrics. Good one! However, I don't imagine copying and pasting lyrics into my song library! But maybe a few for songs that have powerful lyrics...and they will sync to the iPod!
8) Sync to Mobile Phone. If this was the only new feature of iTunes 5.0, then it would be a small incremental release.
In my opinion, iTunes 5.0 has earned it's new 5.0 version number! The new features added are worth while and add to the enjoyment of having your music collection on your Mac and iPod. I am sure if there was a longer list of new features, people would still find some reason to nitpick at something. This is a great upgrade and people should be commenting on the positive aspects, not the negative....because I don't see any negatives.

[jmincey]

Hillstones, you complain that people in this thread talk about what you regard as a silly subject -- namely the question of the version number and whether Apple has added enough value in terms of features to justify the version number -- and then you proceed in your own post to talk about this very same THING.
Also, I don't think it's necessary for you to recapitulate a list of the new features. It was in the article and it's posted all over the place on other sites. I know what the new features are and I think they are just fine. But the iTunes release is still lacking in my opinion -- considering how mature the product is at this point. I expect more of it than what Apple has delivered.
As for version numbers, sorry, but it DOES mean something. You say it's just a number, and from a marketing point of view that's true enough, but software development methodology does not see it as just a number and versioning DOES mean something.
Finally, it always kills me how the complaints of others are invariably "whining" while one's own complaints are (of course) always valid.

[BebeDaniels]

HE-AAC encoding and playback of HE-AAC streams.

[tallscot]

As for those saying, "it's free, what are you complaining about?" The problem is that it is free, from Apple and comes with the operating system. They killed music player competition on the Mac, and this is what we get for it - lackluster release after lackluster release of iTunes. If they are going to kill the music player competition, then IMHO they are obligated to keep theirs on the leading edge. At first they did keep it on that edge, but that tailed off. Now we need competition again, it would seem, because iTunes 5.0 is a disappointment, as was 4.9 and many versions prior.
Hear hear!!!!!!
It doesn't matter which company we are talking about -- not having competition is always bad for the consumer.
Apple should sell a Pro version of iTunes, IMHO. Sell it for the same prices as WinAMP ($19.95) and put in some kick-ass features audio enthusiasts would love to have. Apple could easily tie it in with .Mac too -- .Mac customers should have the ability to download song lyrics and album artwork from Apple's servers automatically when the rip songs (and have Spotlight index the lyrics and artwork too).
Come on, Apple. There are a lot of services you could put in .Mac that you aren't thinking of.

[tallscot]

Jeff,
Typically this complaint about version numbers comes from people who have to shell out dollars for a major update and they feel they are getting a DOT release set of new features.
Since iTunes is free, I don't see how relevant the version number is. Even if they called it iTunes Next Generation or iTunes 4.90001, it's still free.
Some are disappointed with the new version - period.

[hillstones]

Jeff,
I took the time to point out the positive aspects of the new features...something no one has done. All people did was complain, and you were one of the first. Your post had nothing positive to say about the new version. Your post wishes for a compression format that no one uses...good luck on that one!
Eight significant new features is worthy of a new version number. I don't know what people expect to make them happy...10, 20, 30 new features? People should be thrilled iTunes is still free, and continually upgraded with new features.

[jmincey]

"Your post had nothing positive to say about the new version."
From my first post in this thread: "Don't get me wrong; the features in iTunes 5 are most welcome and appreciated..."
From my second post: "...these new features are very welcome. I consider it a positive step forward for iTunes -- no question about it."
And from yet another of my posts in this thread: "I tend to prefer the finer finish of the iTunes 5 interface over the brushed steel theme..."