[Dan Frakes]

In reply to:

---

1. Since you and Peter both bring up advertising budget, could you tell me what happens to advertising rates during the Superbowl? How about the Oscars and so on? Does Apple pay the same ad rate to advertise in Macworld as it does in Time Magazine?
It is directly correlated to the number of viewers... lets boil it down to a simple leaflet hand out.. if you print more leaflets, you will reach more people but your final cost goes up...but then again, your cost per leaflet drops... it is the same concept here.

---

Of course. But several vendors I've talked to have said that the cost of a NYC show is so much more than a Boston show that for the money they would have to spend on a small booth at a NYC Expo, they could fund a year's worth of advertising that would reach more -- and possibly better targeted -- potential customers. So from their perspective, a booth at a NYC Expo doesn't provide them with an adequate value, even if it gives them more "eyes" than one in Boston.

(And as I mentioned before, just as important is the cost of entry: While likely providing "more eyes per dollar," the sheer cost of a SuperBowl ad is why you see TV ads for mom-and-pop stores during the local evening news but not during the SuperBowl /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif OK, so that's an admittedly extreme example, but based on your post, I think you understand my point: It doesn't matter how much of a "better value" something is if you can't afford it. This is an especially relevant point when talking about a NYC show, which is obscenely expensive.)

In reply to:

---

As I clearly said... the attendance for "General purpose" shows have declined. But attendances for targeted shows have gone up. See the link below and you may find it interesting... Just because some big names are fading it doesnt mean the rest of the industry is slumping...

---

But wouldn't you agree that what matters for this particular event -- Macworld Expo -- is Macworld Expo attendance? Since we can't compare the NYC and Boston shows, how about the show that hasn't had such turmoil: Macworld Expo San Francisco. Attendence has declined over the past five years.

[Moof_in_Charge]

I am not sure if you are following the thread of conversation between Dan, Peter and myself. Please re-read at the top...
Apple's decline to attend MW is an assumption you are making. If MW NYC redefines itself with the right message and "content" apple may participate. MW NYC does not need to be a 40,000 attendance behemoth it was... it just needs to be focused on a specific part of the Mac. Since Mac and Unix are now synonymous, there is a whole different market available to MacWorld which in my opinion was neglected in a big way. I believe Apple would find this very appealing.
There is no reason in the world why Macworld NYC shouldnt embrace everything Unix/Linux/Mac... there is nothing else like it on the planet!

[Moof_in_Charge]

Of course vendors you speak to will complain about the cost.. who doesnt?....and I totally understand what you mean about the advertising budget. I dont dispute any of these and I believe I m on the same page as you and Peter... But Peter's assumption that NYC is too expensive is the point d'jour. I dont think NYC is expensive at all, in fact I think in terms of global recognition, it is a serious bargain.
The point is you can look at it in one of two ways.
1. Buying a $1 pack of gum is cheaper (Boston)
2. Buying a $2 10-pack of gum is cheaper. (NYC)
Well, if you are Mr. Apple and you can afford it, you may select #2. It will be a bargain to you, but Mr. Panic may view it as expensive because Mr. Panic doesnt have the same budget as Mr. Apple. In my book "expensive" is a term that should be applied to funds spent on empty returns. Something like Spending $10,000 for presence in Boston Expo and coming home with no sales.. that is expensiveSpending $100,000 and coming away with $110,000 is not.to me anyway! Of course spending $100, 000 and coming home with 0 is worse!
Consider these statements.
1. Paris Expo: Apple Announced New Backup 3.0
2. Marseille Expo: Apple Announced New Backup 3.0
or
1. New York Expo: Apple Announced New Backup 3.0
2. Boston Expo: Apple Announced New Backup 3.0
If you are a reader from Japan/China/India/Mars, which one choice in each group would excite you more? If you said Paris and New York...is that worth something if you are a global company like Apple and Adobe?
San Francisco is a good show but it is also a "General Show" so there shouldnt be a surprise why its attendance is down. I would argue that the SF show would have suffered the same fate had the organizers changed its format twice/moved it twice/angered Apple and acted (Publicly anyway!) standoffish to one of the most standoffish persons on this planet. (we all know who that could be). I will further argue that the SF show will continue to dwindle in attendance until its organizers recognize that the attendee's interest and what the show presents have been on ever divergent paths for a long time. The longer this recognition delay exists, the farther the show will sink until it is either bought out or discontinued like Boston.
MW SF is not a targeted show. We need to stop looking at the Mac as a niche when it comes to trade shows. Today, an external hard drive works on a PC, a USB printer works on a PC and if I was a buyer for either item.. I would rather go to CES instead of MacWord SF/NYC or Boston...
Strangely Dan, Apple participated in more shows (in one year) during the past 2 years than it has at other times during the past decade!
Best
Sean

[jdb8167]

In reply to:

---

NYC redefines itself with the right message and "content" apple may participate.

---

And they may not. And Apple has stated that they will not. And your own arguments contradict your theory anyway. You've already stated that trade shows are moving toward more focused venues. And Apple does attend those shows, showing that they are interested in exactly what you describe, more focused trade shows.
I think that the idea the Apple "may" decide to show up at some future event is exactly why Macworld East can't happen. It is too expensive to organize a show based on a mere hope that Apple may one day decide to exhibit there again.

[jdb8167]

In reply to:

---

1. Paris Expo: Apple Announced New Backup 3.0
2. Marseille Expo: Apple Announced New Backup 3.0

---

Since I read it online and was only marginally aware when the Apple Paris show even was, to me there is absolutely no difference between whether or not the venue for the announcements was Paris or Marseille. It could have been made via a press release from no show at all and had the same impact on my personal interest.

[Moof_in_Charge]

In reply to:

---

NYC redefines itself with the right message and "content" apple may participate.

---

Well as you can see I put "redefines" in the quote so I wasnt merely saying Apple will attend if they brought it back to NYC as is... You may be quiet right if they brought it back in its current state, Apple will most likely decline to participate. You are also assuming I meant Apple would participate in its previous capacity... that's not what I meant.... a targeted show would bring out targeted Apple products/services. Thats a whole different ball of wax.

[Moof_in_Charge]

In reply to:

---

to me there is absolutely no difference between whether or not the venue for the announcements was Paris or Marseille.

---

Do you agree that "excitement" is the first bait to bring people to conferences and conventions? without excitement there is no catalyst.....
You couldnt have underlined some of the points I discussed any better. Apple/Adobe is a global company.. A company like Panic is not. They have different marketing needs, they spend their money differently... to try and squeeze both types of company under one roof means one side has to suffer... When was the last time you saw Apple suffer for anyone or anything? So MW NYC should be about something else and they should bring it back. Now if they paid me I would tell them what to do with it... because that's what I do for a living.

[kimbakat]

Yep..BIG MISTAKE when they moved it to Boston!

Just like Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman" when she returns back to the store to tell that woman on Commission "BIG MISTAKE".

Although I remember Jobs was pretty pissed that IDG did that move. He wanted a real 'presence' in Manhattan. As they do now since they were building those stores all over Manhattan.

Why can't any other "Event Coordinator" in NY start another summer expo here in NY? Don't call it MacWorld..call it something else like "MacUniverse" or something..there has to be SOMEONE here in NY willing to coordinate this back at the Javitz Center?

These were extremely exciting events!!!

I did go to the first Boston MacWorld. It just wasn't up to speed..and you had to walk 2 miles (inside) in their new Expo facility just to get to the area. You could land planes inside this new convention center. Which is really it's deterrent to having an expo there. It's doesn't have the closeness and charm as the Javitz Center.

The Javitz center was right in Manhattan. Easy to get to. Classes were close to the main room. Had multi levels with indoor atrium. Areas to explore..corners to look around...just a better experience.