[Nobody]

a friend of mine was telling me about a new way to log into remote machines using a "vector graphics something" (?) to view pages rather than the typicial "bit map imagine" (?). I put those pharases in quotes because it can't remember them exactly and I only know half of what i'm talking about. but that's why i'm here, right.?.

anyway, apparently this vector graphic thing doesn't acutally upload the whole page from the remote computer like i do now when i login. (FYI i'm just loging in using the typical macintosh way i.e. finder/go/connect to server...) Apparently this vecotor graphic thing just gives a mathmatical representation of the page i'm looking at so the page is a fraction of it's real size. this sounds good to me because i often times open files that are a couple megabytes big from my remote machine and it takes a couple minutes to see the page, even with dsl connection speeds. (making this process faster is the only reason i'm intrested in this issue) I think he said the files had to be viewed in a browser, which makes me wonder if i can edit them if they were indesign or word files.?. he said you could edit the page just as if you were viewing it in word but i still don't know how thats done exactly.

that last part brings me to another point he was trying to make (i think). he was telling me how a program like word could be used on a remote machine without the program (word) installed on that machine. because the word file was viewed as a vector graphic something image on the remote machine it was viewed through a web-browser or something of the sort. and even though the word file was viewed through the browser a person could still edit the file with all the functionality of word, even thought this person didn't have word installed on the remote machine.

this is all the time i have and i've probably done a horrable job explaining this. Hopefully there is somebody out there who can read through my incompantence and tell me what i'm talking about. I look forward to talking with this guy again and having him explain it to me again. He said he'd show me how it's done on a windows machine (he wasn't sure if it works on a mac). If/when i know more i'll reply to this post.

[Nobody]

The general theme your friend is referring to is simply called "remote control software". This software allows you to operate one computer remotely from another, just as though you were sitting in front of that remote computer. There are various ways to reduce the amount of data that needs to be sent back and forth between the "remote" computer and the computer controlling it (primarily, the amount of data that needs to be sent to update the video display on the computer acting remotely) - this is where the "vector graphics" technology your friend was referring to comes into play.

There are several products for the Mac available to do this currently - among them "Apple Remote Desktop" from Apple, Timbuktu Pro from Netopia, and even a "free" one called VNC.

Yes, you could run application software (like Word) remotely using these products, if you wanted to. The performance would be somewhat less than what could be accomplished if the application was run directly. You need to consider the tradeoff - time spent waiting to download the file you are working on (and uploading it after you are done) versus the more sluggish response of running the application software under "remote control".

[Nobody]

Thanks HMB. Now my curiosity is growing. Ill look at remote desktop right after this but Ive got a few questions. How do you view the files in this type of environment? Was I right in guessing it is all done through a browser? Have you used this set up before? Which of those you listed is best? How much faster is this approach? Is this approach a viable alternative to the more traditional approach? (if I can call it that)

I dont mean to bombard you with all these questions, nor do I expect you to answer them all. Ill probably answer a lot of them when I go to their websites. But if you have any personal experience you can share with me I would greatly appreciate it. Just so you know what Im looking to do

Im basically looking to improve the speed of working with files on a remote machine. I dont want to simply transfer these files to my machine, because I want to keep the files on the remote machine central and accessible to two other people. So I guess Im using the remote machine as a server in some respects.?. the remote machine is just a standard 10.2 Mac, and somebody is working on it while I login. I login using the ssh client built into 10.2. Pretty low tech but it works. The file I open up on the remote machine can take a long time to open and a even longer time to save. Would remote desktop work for me in this case? How would it affect the person working on the remote machine? Would it affect his control of the machine?

Thanks for you help. Ill go read up on remote desktop now.

[Nobody]

"Remote control software" makes it look like you are actually using the video display/keyboard/mouse of the remote computer. It works exactly as though you were really sitting down and working at the remote computer itself.

All "remote control" products I am aware of run server software on the "controlled" computer and client software on the "remote" computer. It does not work via a web browser (would be too slow).

Yes - there is a performance penalty to be paid for running a application remotely on a computer, while at the same time having someone use that same computer directly to run another application. For application software that is not heavily processor dependent (like word processing) it is still practical. After all, the practicality of this is the basis for Microsoft's "Terminal Server" product line - which allows multiple remote PCs (and Macs too, for that matter) to run application software remotely on a single Windows server.

[ 11-10-2002: Message edited by: HMB ]

[Nobody]

That last part about Microsofts terminal server software is what he was originally taking about. i think he wanted to load a bunch of software like word & excel on his server and charge people for the use of it when they used it through his server. People who used this software would not have to have it loaded on their personal machines, they would use it on his. Interesting concept really. If working on remote software were adequately fast enough then people wouldnt have to go out and buy it themselves. Wouldnt microsoft want to put a stop to this? A small business could buy one version of the software, load it on the controlled computer and let a hand full of people use it at no cost to them (unless their charge for it like above).

Does apple remote desktop compete with their server software in some ways? It seems like it would, and at a much cheaper cost too.

The programs Im using are basically word and indesign, I dont think they are processor intensive. If the controlled computer was a dual processor mac would that elevate any potential problems?

[Nobody]

Although Microsoft is gradually putting a stop to this with the latest versions of Office, there has up until now been nothing to physically prevent people from installing Office on as many computers as they want, even though it is a violation of the software license. The same applies to running multiple copies of Office on a Terminal Server. One is supposed to buy as many copies of Office as there are going to be remote workstations accessing the Terminal Server and using Office. And yes, Microsoft certainly would want to put a stop to the type of business your friend wanted to start up.

Apple Remote Desktop is not really intended (nor useful as) a Mac version of Terminal Server. It also does not compete with Apple MacOS-based server operating systems - they have very different functions. It has been developed primarily as a "remote management tool" as well as a way to allow you to remotely access software (and files) when you are occasionally away from your main office. For more information, see http://www.apple.com/remotedesktop/

[ 11-10-2002: Message edited by: HMB ]

[Nobody]

is timbuktu better than apple remote desktop?

[Wayne_T]

Timbuktu is awesome, powerful, crossplatform (you can run a Mac from a wintel and v/v) .. every feature you could need (incl. simultaneous voice chat)

I use it to support clients all over the world .. : free trial @ www.netopia.com

(have no association - simply acknowledging a great product)

[Nobody]

Another very useful remote controll software is VNC (Virtual Network Computing) by at&t. www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/
It does require a server app for the controled system and a client piece. It does support a web interface. Just enter the ip of the machine and open port 5800. It is password protected. It is not extremely fast, but managble over a 10/100 network, not for dial-up.
Good Luck

[Nobody]

Oops, forgot the most important thing. It's FREE !!