[d00d]

In reply to:

---

RSS implementation especially.

---

Really? I find Firefox's RSS support really weak and pretty much useless.

In reply to:

---

Stability as well.

---

Really? Firefox crashes much more often for me.

In reply to:

---

Save to... When saving images from a website (yes, it is OK sometimes), I can save it to "downloads" or iPhoto. I can not choose what folder to save it to.

---

Right-click, once the menu appears, hold option. Tada.

[MCJ]

In reply to:

---

OSX can't afford to have Windows catching up.

---

That's it in a nutshell. Sure there may be a significant minority of hardcore Mac users like albertr who will never abandon the platform. However IMHO most users do not have a such a deep emotional attachment to their computers. If future iterations of Windows can somehow approximate the OS X experience there will be little to differentiate the Mac platform, and Apple will lose market share as a result.

[Earthling7]

RSS - I really like how I can just click an RSS link and get a dropdown of what's new. No need to visit the site or even have a separate window for it. It's simple, may not be elegant, but it's fast and efficient.
If Firefox crashes more often, does that make Safari any better than it already is? I wasn't comparing Safari to Firefox. I was simply saying that if anything hangs in OSX (on my computer), it's Safari. Just because another product is even worse (your words), doesn't mean Apple should not take their own products seriously. When did Apple ever benchmark themselves against others? It's the other way round.
Thanks for the hint on Save as... OSX is full of hidden gems, isn't it? Shame they are hidden. A hint for Leopard?

[althe3rd]

In reply to:

---

That's it in a nutshell. Sure there may be a significant minority of hardcore Mac users like albertr who will never abandon the platform. However IMHO most users do not have a such a deep emotional attachment to their computers. If future iterations of Windows can somehow approximate the OS X experience there will be little to differentiate the Mac platform, and Apple will lose market share as a result.

---

I completely agree. To me its not that I love the mac specifically to a point in which nothing would ever make me leave it, its that I love the "best" computer out there. If windows starts matching OS X feature for feature, it will make things harder to distinguish. It would make hardware the deciding factor in purchasing a computer, and we all know how controveral that is.

[althe3rd]

On another note, I have heard that Apple will officially give a preview of 10.5 in august during the WWDC. I am not sure if they will divulge any other information until that point. What makes it interesting is that since 10.5 is still supposedly on track to be out in 2006, that doesn't leave a lot of time between first preview and launch of 10.5.
On yet another note, I have the February CTP of Vista and I will be evaluating it and providing a bit more insight on how particular features compare to their OS X counterparts.

[d00d]

In reply to:

---

RSS - I really like how I can just click an RSS link and get a dropdown of what's new. No need to visit the site or even have a separate window for it. It's simple, may not be elegant, but it's fast and efficient.

---

It's not efficient if you read more than a couple feeds, nor does it deal with the problem of reading the same item multiple times. I think it's a rather poor representation.

In reply to:

---

If Firefox crashes more often, does that make Safari any better than it already is? I wasn't comparing Safari to Firefox.

---

Yes, you were:

In reply to:

---

Safari could learn a thing or two from Firefox. RSS implementation especially. Stability as well.

---

More stability is always a good thing, but I took issue with your comparison.

In reply to:

---

Thanks for the hint on Save as... OSX is full of hidden gems, isn't it? Shame they are hidden. A hint for Leopard?

---

Hidden? Not if you're familiar with Macs. Modifier keys have always altered behavior of many menu items. It keeps menus from getting overly cluttered. I certainly had no trouble finding it.

[althe3rd]

After having evaluated the intial impressions of vista I must say that its biggest issue thus far is its speed. Of course the speed being a problem is expected since its a beta, but really this thing is quite doggy. Setting that issue aside I must say that the visual presentation although not as crisp as OS X does seem to be quite impressive, they did a good job of pulling off their desired glass effect. I have to do more evaluating of vista before I mention more but in the meantime I created a flash based represenation of the effect you see in vista.
This flash movie I made illustrates the glass effect of the windows and their transparency/blurring effect. Please note that the windows bobbling as they change size is NOT part of vista, thats simply a flash actionscript effect i left in at the time.
http://www.flashevolved.com/glass/
Enjoy.
I guess me being a web developer for a living isn't so suprising now is it. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MCJ]

Nice job!
I especially like the OS X background /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

[Earthling7]

Looks like OSX got it just right. A bit too transparant for my taste.
Anyways, didn't the Windows Supersite say that the coming months would be spent on speed optimisation?
One thing I'm wondering, is Apple likely to sue Microsoft for the similarities or did they burn themselves too badly lst time?
And one final thing. d00d, don't take issue, make suggestions. That's what this topic was about.

[d00d]

In reply to:

---

And one final thing. d00d, don't take issue, make suggestions. That's what this topic was about.

---

Your suggestion is flawed, so I thought I'd comment. And I'm the moderator, I think I have some idea what's on topic. If you want to talk about the way I'm paricipating, my private message inbox is open, no point in cluttering the thread. Thanks.

[althe3rd]

Playing in Vista land... the adventure continues...
Well, if it wasn't stated enough before it should be now... this is definatly a beta! Allow me to explain, during some of the testing I was doing with vista, an xp-esk popup prompted me to get the latest windows updates. Now if you know anything about windows updates is that they have the potential to make the os eat its own tail. And sure enough, after the updates were applied and it restarted, mup.sys failed to load causing the system to never start up. On top of that it also killed my windows xp install on the other partition. It's a good thing I have all of my information backed up. Now setting that aside I will go into more detail about vista before it self destructed.
The Desktop: The desktop starts off with just the recycle bin in the upper left corner and as with many of other features vista copied, you can resize this to 128x128 pixels. The side bar is not turned on by default and the start menu and taskbar look quite similar to the xp setup (aside from it being black and transparent now). Clicking on an icon on the desktop (highlighting it) mimics nearly identically the look of the way icons are highlighted in 10.4 (a lightly shaded box with rounded corners surround the icon). Opening a window, whether it be "computer" or "control panel" for instance, opens a window with a zoom/fade effect, somewhat similar to the zoom effect you see in opening a window in 10.4. Many of the same effects continue their similarities throught the os. When you minimize a window to the task bar it minimizes in nearly the exact same fashion 10.4 minimizes if you use the scale effect in 10.4. The taskbar still includes those little icons in the lower right hand corner that indicate running processes or programs. And its still as annoying as ever as they constantly seem to be biding for you attention with little popup dialog boxes.
That is one thing that still seems apparent from xp to vista especially, the fact that os seems to be similar to a crowded room full of people all yelling at the same time. To me, 10.4 Tiger seems like a room full of people all wanting to talk but take their turn getting your attention (not talking over each other).
I will write more about additional aspects of vista soon, and when I manage to get everything re installed I will post screenshots of the various effects. To be honest I am not too worried about vista after having played with it, but I can't help but get aggitated as I see literally every aspect of 10.4 copied. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....
Sorry about that.... Anyway look for upcoming posts with more details.

[MCJ]

Well, they do say that imitation is the ultimate form of flattery. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
But now we learn that Vista will not support EFI!
It seems to me that MS simply lacks the will to embrace the really fundamental changes that Windows so badly needs. From what I've read (not having the privilege of owning a Mac at the time) the transition from OS 9 to OS X was a disruptive one, and I know that a lot of Mac users complain about Apple abandoning obsolescent technology too early. But the upside of this is that the Mac platform is streets ahead in most respects because Apple has the courage to match its convictions.
I believe that the transition to Intel is just the latest example of this.

[Earthling7]

First... I'm not here to offend anyone, so my apologies.
Now for the topic at hand. Thanks to althe3rd for sharing his Vista experience. It is known that the current build is not speed-optimised, so no suprise there. It has also become apparent in the last couple of years that the released version will be a mere shadow of what Longhorn was originally supposed to be. Still, most people fall for the eye candy, and if Microsoft is copying everything OSX has to offer in that area, it will make it harder to convince the average Windows user to give the Mac a try. They will look at the surface and say, it's the same, but without a Start button and task bar. Whatever. Vista is cool. Humans are creatures of habit. They need a real reason to try the unknown. The main reason for switching, for most, will probably be if Vista is as virus prone as XP, and XP has improved a lot.
Also, with EFI apparently being pulled, Vista won't run on an Intel Mac, I believe. Adds to the potential fear of switching.
Apple is doing great, is far superiour without a doubt (MS itself seems to think so), but they need to be on their toes.
And one final thing. Once the eye candy and other OSX features show up on a Windows PC, people won't think what a rip off it is. They will believe Microsoft invented the whole thing.

[althe3rd]

Earthling I don't think you offended anyone. In fact, I think you made a lot of good points. Especially the one about how once all the eye candy gets into windows that windows users will think microsoft invented it all. Which I will believe be followed by a long agrivating sigh from the mac community as history repeates its self once again.