[RASTERMAN]

bjorns,
As the saying goes:
"There are two kinds of people... Those who have lost data, and those that will."
I have myself lost data at great personal financial cost and hope to never again! I look forward to any improvements in this area.
I've also had to console teary eyed clients who have either permanently lost their cherrished digital photo's or other data, and on more than one occasion have had to console an individual that was at risk of losing their job because they did not follow backup policies or proceedures.
Until you've felt the pain, experienced the horror, and the lived through the inevitable sickness that follows such a loss, you really can have no deep appreciation for that particular circumstance.
I hope to never again, and would not wish it upon anyone.
Cheers!
---RASTER

[AlanAudio]

There is a product which I increasingly feel is missing from Apple's line-up and should be there.
Many home users have multiple Macs, large iPhoto and iTunes libraries and are impatient for the day when they can download massive movies from Apple and elsewhere. It makes more sense to have those files stored on a networked server than on each individual Mac. Apple should release a Personal Server to act as a central repository for all that data and more. It would clearly fit in with the way that Time Machine works too.
Full-blown servers are very high powered and not intended for home users. Using an elderly Mac as a server involves a certain amount of work, but is the solution most frequently adopted. Apple would do well to consider releasing a Personal Server, which could be based on something modest, like a Mac mini, but re-packaged in order to accommodate one or two standard sized hard drives, maybe with a removable one too. Alternatively they could release a new type of AirPort Base Station, with a facility to plug in external hard drives, in order to provide networked storage.
Either way, the end result would be a modestly priced item that offers individuals the means to add networked storage without any hassle. As a final touch, they should also design it in such a way that it's outrageously frugal with it's power consumption as it will spend much of it's time idling, so a really innovative way ( maybe incorporating flash memory ) to have it always ready, but environmentally-friendly would be a definite plus.
Obviously I've no idea if Apple are planning such a product, but I'd had a feeling about this for quite some time and Apple keeps producing applications that are crying out for this solution. The 'Top Secret' Leopard features may also exploit this product too.

[Nobody]

RASTERMAN
Well stated. Your experiences tells it all. I feel your pain.
NOW - to everybody else - specially the younger and "untouchables" posting and reading these MacWorld forum pages - read RASTERMAN's post above - learn - and start using your heads. If you loose your data - it's just your personal loss - right? However, should you have any clients and loose their data . . . you loose . . . financially, legally and emotionally. And your reputation is out the window. And if you loose your digital family pictures . . . think of your children in the future when they look at you and wonder who the bozo was who did not safeguard those precious moments in time that used to be, and still is so important to them . . . and hopefully to you as well.
PEOPLE . . . THINK!!! . . . then . . . open your wallet and do the right thing.

[Nobody]

AlanAudio said: Many home users have multiple Macs, large iPhoto and iTunes libraries and are impatient for the day when they can download massive movies from Apple and elsewhere. It makes more sense to have those files stored on a networked server than on each individual Mac. Apple should release a Personal Server to act as a central repository for all that data and more. It would clearly fit in with the way that Time Machine works too.
I like your idea.
A 'personal household server' that links everything together. All members in the household working off of one network/server. A central household database. Maybe just monitors and keyboards in each relevant room. Takes up less space. No cluttering of visible space. No sound from fans - just quiet environments. Server hidden in sound proofed closet or small room. Basement. Loft. Easy to use, set up and affordable . . . made by Apple. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[kwill]

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So they're promoting Time Machine as a big feature, but you can't use it unless you buy another hard drive (external), it's illogical!

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Time Machine drive can be internal with the Mac Pro. (See Macworld article Leopard first looks: Time Machine.

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In its promotional materials for Time Machine, Apple states that Time Machine works with external hard drives and servers. In reality, it will work with any non-bootable volume formatted in Apples HFS Extended format. That drive can be stowed inside a Mac Pro, attached on the end of a FireWire or USB cable, or even mounted on your desktop from elsewhere on your network. The one big catch is, the entire volume must be devoted to Time Machineyou cant just stow Time Machine files inside a folder on a larger volume.

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However, the true nature of backups is to have them at a remote location (in case of fire or theft) so an external solution, be it a server or detachable drive, is better training for the 96 percent of users that are not used to backing up.
We have long speculated about the ability to transport our Mac environment onto other computers as we move from home to work to laptop. Backup/synchronization solutions of iTools lack sufficient capacity. Time Machine paves the way for a device (iPod?) that can serve as a personal system environment conduit. The only fly in the ointment is that whatever environment you "temporarily" mount on the host Mac could leave traces of the visitor's personal files -- (hmm) unless the temporary login User is no longer available. For argument's sake, could someone recreate a User with a matching name and then use Time Machine to access the files? How would Time Machine work when a temporary conduit (drive from different system) is attached? Interesting times....

[icerabbit]

I've found an increasing need for that type of machine or at least centralized storage as well. Right now I'm looking at the latter. I do have more than one spare machine that could serve, but I rather not have one running 24/7 when I can hopefully get away with just a little NAS box.
I do look forward to time machine, for ourselves and some people I know. Though admittingly the windows machines need it more as they are less stable then the macs. Like many we burn a lot of stuff manually to DVD. With increased frequency. Leaving room for improvement. And, we haven't been impressed with Backup really.
Related story:
We've been through a serious data loss - with all the emotions: stress, hope, sickness, heartbreak, ... - because OS X wiped a Windows Share a few years ago that contained our entire personal photo archive - which we were in the process of cleaning up / organizing prior to backup to multiple DVDs. Talk about timing. We of course only had a partial backup (mainly older images). This happened when creating a drag & drop shortcut to said share in the Finder button bar. Only the shortcut landed somewhere else. No biggie. Try again. Delete the erroneous one. WRONG. Without alert / prompt nor any sign of activity. All data in that folder was wiped in a split second ... we found out later that night. Sure it had to be recoverable. While doing that, the main hard drive overheated during the long recovery process to a second drive installed on top / below it. And, from there things just went down hill with more of Murphy's law. Even professional recovery did not work out as the drive went belly-up.
We learned several lessons there: beware of shortcuts, have more frequent backups, don't install 200GB drives on top of each other without additional cooling, ...
Anyway. I look forward to Leopard. And, nice opinion Andy.

[knighthawk]

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So they're promoting Time Machine as a big feature, but you can't use it unless you buy another hard drive (external), it's illogical!

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The Keynote mentioned that you could also use Time Machine with a Server, but they did not go into the details of that... I certainly hope that OS X Server is not required for this feature. Since Time Machine will back up the ENTIRE SYSTEM It is unlikely that ".mac" will offer a Time Machine server unless you can limit Time Machine to certain folders.
Because Time Machine backs up the entire system, it means that your back up drive needs to be at least as large or if not larger than your current hard drive. But one advantage to this is if an OS Update causes a lot of problems, you can revert your system back to the previous state. Also, if the Mac gets a destructive virus, you can probably undo the damage. I also hope that it is possible to revert software installs... I had a destructive install of Adobe CS2 Premium which Version Cue CS2 killed my existing MySQL install and data (used for Web development).

[leicaman]

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I like the idea... for example, Time Machine needs another HD to work (not even a partition, but a whole HD), so, as it is right now, you couldn't use it with an iMac or a MB/MBP or a Mini... unless, of course, you have an external drive, but that is not maclike, it's not an out-of-the-box feature...
So they're promoting Time Machine as a big feature, but you can't use it unless you buy another hard drive (external), it's illogical!

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Exactly why in the Keynote, they showed a LaCie Drive plugged into an iMac in a graphic on screen.

[leicaman]

Quote:

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As I understand it, it's neither a disaster prevention nor backup solution, just a nifty revision-management tool. Apple likes to bill themselves as making elegant solutions. Time Machine in its current form is not elegant.

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Then I suspect you don't understand it. It works JUST like Retrospect Express in terms of being able to back up incrementally - only in a much easier way for the user to both backup and restore. They specifically state that you can restore anything from a single file to a whole system. With no user configuration. I'd say it's the best, most intelligent backup and restoration solution on the planet! Other than it's need for a lot of storage (is there a Time Machine Machine coming at MWSF?) devices. Of course, users can configure it - as they said - so that it might just very well be a good solution. How do we know the next MacBook won't have two drive bays? Why not? With less need for cooling, maybe there will be a backup solution for MacBook Pros. If anyone can figure that fact out, it's Apple.
So just because it doesn't fit all of the needs of laptop users doesn't mean it's not a great feature. MOST people do not use laptops yet, but it's getting there. But that being said, just because it's not an ideal solution for laptops does not mean it's not good for laptops. In fact, quite a few laptop users I know have a desktop too. So what if they come up with a piece of software for laptops that backs them up when you hook them into a home LAN? Like they said, this is not a complete picture of Leopard. Who knows how extensible Time Machine is.

[thompsot]

I really think that hardware is the key. Apple is still playing catchup with the podcasting phenomenon, and still trying to stay out in front of the possibilities afforded by H.264. The new iChat features is just a teaser in that area. I think that somewhere in the Apple Labs they are working on things like speech recognition (good for making things like podcasts searchable) and the like. I think a product that combines iPod and phone-type technologies is on the near horizon--useful for speaking, listening, easy recording and posting, and most importantly, receiving 3G services. A company like Apple has be thinking of putting a heavy portion of its resources on keeping the iPod phenomenon in its own court. Up to now, they have been watching to see how people are beginning to use some of the technologies, and are poised to make some big moves. As soon as I read that Steve Jobs said he wasn't showing all of the cards, my assumption is that there are some big things in the pipe, and my guess is that some of it is along these lines.
Tim

[Thrudheim]

Quote:

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There's no way in hell I'm going to lug around an external hard drive plus cables and keep it connected to my PowerBook just to use Time Machine. It's a great concept, I'd love to use it, but the "external drive required" part is a deal-killer for me. That doesn't mean I wouldn't keep an external drive at home and spin off a weekly backup, but I like to be able to pop my PowerBook open and use it, and stuff it quickly away when I'm done, not fumble around with a bulging bag of accessories.

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You do not have to be connected to an external hard drive constantly. Just read the descripion of Time Machine on Apple's web site: http://www.apple.com...imemachine.html
There it says you can change the preference setting for which drive or volume you can back up to, including a server (and, I assume, a disk partition). It also says that the default backup schedule is for the backup to take place at midnight each day, but that this is configurable. In other words, do it when you return from your trip. It looks like Time Machine will work quite well for you.

[Steve_S]

I think there is much to do over nothing regarding the "secret features". Tiger had 200+ new features, but only about 10 were significant enough to talk about. I'd like to know more about what type of changes were made at the kernel level as opposed to new features in bundled applications. Unfortunately, not much was said about this at all. In terms of the OS itself, going 64 bit top to bottom is a big deal in terms of development effort, but it doesn't make for much of a keynote presentation. Core animation looks cool. I hope third party developers get onboard with some of these cooler core technologies.
As a side note, there was nothing particularly innovative announced with Leopard, with perhaps the exception of core animation.
Time machine looks cool, but lets face it, it's just a pretty interface for Apple's .Mac Backup utility.
Mail is nice, but html stationary? Notes? They're decent enhancements, but nothing very exciting.
iChat theatre looks pretty cool. This looks like a direct challenge to Microsoft's NetMeeting. I like Apple's style and implementation, but who's copying who?
Spaces is a welcome addition. It will be new to many, but experienced Unix users will wonder what took them so long to come out with copy of virtual desktops.
The Dashboard development tools, especially the web clipping are cool. This should bring on many more widgets.
Spotlight enhancemetns are needed just to stay competitive with Microsoft. Where was the demo? It's probably not yet ready for prime time.
iCal is a big deal. Not so much because of iCal or the todos, but because of the new iCal server Apple is going with. It's meant to be a drop in replacement for an Exchange server. That could be cool. Going opensource with this is also a good idea.
The new voice in Accessiblity is very cool, but will go unused by the vast majority of users.
64 bit - finally. They need to be just to be competitive though in the workstation / server market.
Core animation - perhaps this is the coolest technology demoed for Leopard. Let's hope 3rd party developers get onboard.
Steve

[Moof_in_Charge]

Okay Andy, thanks for making my day, the ending paragraph was the funniest, wittiest thing I have read all year. I had always searched for a moment to describe my feelings when Microsoft announces a product (ala Origami) and up until now, every description failed to capture the moment. 2 feet on the breaks... /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. priceless! /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Grapho]

You make no sense. Backing up a HD is in case your HD goes down. How on earth are they going to make this work with a single HD.