[MW Forums]

German policy makers are calling for stricter rules, if not an outright ban, on the distribution of violent software games. more

[vfx2k4]

Well at least there's an upside to the lack of decent games on the Mac then. Mac owners are less violent...

[veggiedude]

People should differentiate between cause and effect. Doesn't suprise me that a violent person would be drawn to violent games because that would be the normal side effect. If violent games was the cause, there would be thousands upon thousands of such cases, because that is how many people watch violent games and tv.

"There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets?" - Dick Cavett

[MacTechAspen]

Attacking teenage culture has long been an easy mark for politicians world wide. In the US we have had congressional hearings not only in recent times on video games, but on days gone by over such inflammatory media as comic books and Rock & Roll.
The fallacy in the logic behind such attacks is as easy to refute as pointing out that not everyone that plays violent games acts out violence any more than comic books and Rock music has made mass murderers out of generations of the World's youth.
If someone can point to a study that shows a direct correlation between violence and any form of media(video games, tv, music, anything) I would be most interested to read it.
What seems to be the case is that some people have a predilection for violence. It may well be genetic. When this person is placed in a position where they have the motive (hate and fear) and opportunity (access to weapons and targets) they will, on occasion, act out.
Assigning blame will always be easier than taking responsibility, and while I know almost nothing about the circumstances surrounding this latest tragedy, it is unlikely that the young man was perfectly sane in every way until video games turned him into a monster (Reefer Madness anyone?).
We do not live in an increasingly violent world. We live in a decreasingly violent world, as all crime stats show. People have been killing each other since the beginning of time (even the beginning of The Book for the believers out there). Violent people may well enjoy hard rock, graphic novels and violent games, but the later do not necessarily precipitate the former.
Because teenagers have almost no political clout, they are an easy target for fear mongering elected officials (sadly, Hillary Clinton is in these ranks). Even the most altruistic have learned that you can raise more ire (much less money and or votes) with fear over hope.
I personally don't play ultra violent games (I play plenty of D&D style games that are mostly slash em ups). I don't avoid the ultra violent types because I have any moral dilemmas, I am just not very good at them, and few make it to the Mac anyway.
Censorship is a slippery slope, and one that in the US anyway many of us feel there is no tolerance for. The old adage that I would defend to my death the right of someone to espouse that which I truly despise, applies.

[sdf]

...was described by students and teachers as a youth with no friends who liked guns and played violent computer shooting games.
I have no doubt that violent computer games make it easier for people to be more violent. Exactly how much I don't know. Exactly what impact it has relative to the venting I don't know.
But one thing I do know: Violent computer games are one of many factors here. Just reading that one sentence, I can see at least two more. It seems that at most video games are giving people help in finding an outlet, but they're neither seed nor even root.
Problems are best solved at the root.

[Horsfall]

Actually, there are plenty of data supporting the idea that violence in the media increases violent behavior. Certainly behavior is multifactorial, and computer games contribute negatively.
Just a quick search on PubMed yields plenty of peer-reviewed articles, here are 10 abstracts:
1: Cyberpsychol Behav. 2006 Oct;9(5):638-41.
The appeal of violent video games to lower educated aggressive adolescent boys
from two countries.
Lemmens JS, Bushman BJ.
Department of Communication Science, Free University, Amsterdam, The
Netherlands. jslemmens@gmail.com
The objective of this study was to test the effect of individual differences on
appeal and use of video games. Participants were 299 adolescent boys from lower
and higher secondary schools in the Netherlands and Belgium. In general, boys
were most attracted to violent video games. Boys that scored higher in trait
aggressiveness and lower in empathy were especially attracted to violent games
and spent more time playing video games than did boys lower in trait
aggressiveness. Lower educated boys showed more appreciation for both violent
and nonviolent games and spent more time playing them than did higher educated
boys. The present study showed that aggressive and less empathic boys were most
attracted to violent games. The fact that heavy users of violent games show less
empathy and higher aggressiveness suggests the possibility of desensitization.
Other studies have shown that playing violent games increases aggressiveness and
decreases empathy. These results combined suggest the possibility of a violence
cycle. Aggressive individuals are attracted to violent games. Playing violent
games increases aggressiveness and decreases empathy, which in turn leads to
increased appreciation and use of violent games.
PMID: 17034335 [PubMed - in process]
2: Biomedica. 2002 Dec;22 Suppl 2:398-406.
The relationship between violent video games, acculturation, and aggression
among Latino adolescents.
Escobar-Chaves SL, Kelder S, Orpinas P.
Center for Health Promotion and Prevention Research, School of Public Health,
University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston, Houston, Texas, USA.
SOLEDAD.L.ESCOBAR-CHAVES@UTH.TMC.EDU
Multiple factors are involved in the occurrence of aggressive behavior. The
purpose of this study was to evaluate the hypotheses that Latino middle school
children exposed to higher levels of video game playing will exhibit a higher
level of aggression and fighting compared to children exposed to lower levels
and that the more acculturated middle school Latino children will play more
video games and will prefer more violent video games compared to less
acculturated middle school Latino children. This study involved 5,831 students
attending eight public schools in Texas. A linear relationship was observed
between the time spent playing video games and aggression scores. Higher
aggression scores were significantly associated with heavier video playing for
boys and girls (p < 0.0001). The more students played video games, the more they
fought at school (p < 0.0001). As Latino middle school students were more
acculturated, their preference for violent video game playing increased, as well
as the amount of time they played video games. Students who reported speaking
more Spanish at home and with their friends were less likely to spend large
amounts of time playing video games and less likely to prefer violent video
games (p < 0.05).
PMID: 12596459 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
3: J Adolesc. 2004 Feb;27(1):41-52.
Exposure to violent video games increases automatic aggressiveness.
Uhlmann E, Swanson J.
Department of Psychology, Yale University; 2 Hillhouse Avenue, New Haven, CT
06520, USA. eric.uhlmann@yale.edu
The effects of exposure to violent video games on automatic associations with
the self were investigated in a sample of 121 students. Playing the violent
video game Doom led participants to associate themselves with aggressive traits
and actions on the Implicit Association Test. In addition, self-reported prior
exposure to violent video games predicted automatic aggressive self-concept,
above and beyond self-reported aggression. Results suggest that playing violent
video games can lead to the automatic learning of aggressive self-views.
PMID: 15013259 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
4: Pers Soc Psychol Bull. 2005 Nov;31(11):1573-86.
Correlates and consequences of exposure to video game violence: hostile
personality, empathy, and aggressive behavior.
Bartholow BD, Sestir MA, Davis EB.
Department of Psychological Sciences, University of Missouri-Columbia, MO 65503,
USA. bartholowb@missouri.edu
Research has shown that exposure to violent video games causes increases in
aggression, but the mechanisms of this effect have remained elusive. Also,
potential differences in short-term and long-term exposure are not well
understood. An initial correlational study shows that video game violence
exposure (VVE) is positively correlated with self-reports of aggressive behavior
and that this relation is robust to controlling for multiple aspects of
personality. A lab experiment showed that individuals low in VVE behave more
aggressively after playing a violent video game than after a nonviolent game but
that those high in VVE display relatively high levels of aggression regardless
of game content. Mediational analyses show that trait hostility, empathy, and
hostile perceptions partially account for the VVE effect on aggression. These
findings suggest that repeated exposure to video game violence increases
aggressive behavior in part via changes in cognitive and personality factors
associated with desensitization.
Publication Types:
Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 16207775 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
5: Br J Soc Psychol. 1998 Sep;37 ( Pt 3):367-78.
Comment in:
Br J Soc Psychol. 2000 Mar;39 ( Pt 1):147-9.
Video game playing and its relations with aggressive and prosocial behaviour.
Wiegman O, van Schie EG.
Department of Psychology, University of Twente, Enschede, The Netherlands.
In this study of 278 children from the seventh and eighth grade of five
elementary schools in Enschede, The Netherlands, the relationship between the
amount of time children spent on playing video games and aggressive as well as
prosocial behaviour was investigated. In addition, the relationship between the
preference for aggressive video games and aggressive and prosocial behaviour was
studied. No significant relationship was found between video game use in general
and aggressive behaviour, but a significant negative relationship with prosocial
behaviour was supported. However, separate analyses for boys and girls did not
reveal this relationship. More consistent results were found for the preference
for aggressive video games: children, especially boys, who preferred aggressive
video games were more aggressive and showed less prosocial behaviour than those
with a low preference for these games. Further analyses showed that children who
preferred playing aggressive video games tended to be less intelligent.
PMID: 9738313 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
6: Psychol Sci. 2001 Sep;12(5):353-9.
Effects of violent video games on aggressive behavior, aggressive cognition,
aggressive affect, physiological arousal, and prosocial behavior: a
meta-analytic review of the scientific literature.
Anderson CA, Bushman BJ.
Iowa State University, Department of Psychology, Ames 50011-3180, USA.
caa@iastate.edu
Research on exposure to television and movie violence suggests that playing
violent video games will increase aggressive behavior. A metaanalytic review of
the video-game research literature reveals that violent video games increase
aggressive behavior in children and young adults. Experimental and
nonexperimental studies with males and females in laboratory and field settings
support this conclusion. Analyses also reveal that exposure to violent video
games increases physiological arousal and aggression-related thoughts and
feelings. Playing violent video games also decreases prosocial behavior.
Publication Types:
Meta-Analysis
PMID: 11554666 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
7: J Adolesc. 2004 Feb;27(1):53-69.
Playing violent electronic games, hostile attributional style, and
aggression-related norms in German adolescents.
Krahe B, Moller I.
Department of Psychology, University of Potsdam, Postfach 60 15 53, D-14415
Potsdam, Germany. krahe@rz.uni-potsdam.de
The relationship was examined between exposure to and preference for violent
electronic games and aggressive norms as well as hostile attributional style.
Following a pilot study to sample widely used electronic games varying in
violent content, 231 eighth-grade adolescents in Germany reported their use of
and attraction to violent electronic games. They also completed measures of
hostile attributional style and endorsement of aggressive norms. There were
significant gender differences in usage and attraction to violent electronic
games, with boys scoring higher than girls. Significant relationships were found
between attraction to violent electronic games and the acceptance of norms
condoning physical aggression. Violent electronic games were linked indirectly
to hostile attributional style through aggressive norms. The findings are
discussed with respect to North American research on the aggression-enhancing
effect of violent electronic games.
PMID: 15013260 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
8: J Adolesc. 2004 Feb;27(1):113-22.
An update on the effects of playing violent video games.
Anderson CA.
Department of Psychology, W112 Lagomarcino Hall, Iowa State University, Ames, IA
50011-3180, USA. caa@iastate.edu
This article presents a brief overview of existing research on the effects of
exposure to violent video games. An updated meta-analysis reveals that exposure
to violent video games is significantly linked to increases in aggressive
behaviour, aggressive cognition, aggressive affect, and cardiovascular arousal,
and to decreases in helping behaviour. Experimental studies reveal this linkage
to be causal. Correlational studies reveal a linkage to serious, real-world
types of aggression. Methodologically weaker studies yielded smaller effect
sizes than methodologically stronger studies, suggesting that previous
meta-analytic studies of violent video games underestimate the true magnitude of
observed deleterious effects on behaviour, cognition, and affect.
Publication Types:
Meta-Analysis
PMID: 15013264 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
9: Psychol Sci. 2005 Nov;16(11):882-9.
The effects of reward and punishment in violent video games on aggressive
affect, cognition, and behavior.
Carnagey NL, Anderson CA.
Department of Psychology, Iowa State University, Ames, 50011, USA.
vasser@iastate.edu
Three experiments examined the effects of rewarding and punishing violent
actions in video games on later aggression-related variables. Participants
played one of three versions of the same race-car video game: (a) a version in
which all violence was rewarded, (b) a version in which all violence was
punished, and © a nonviolent version. Participants were then measured for
aggressive affect (Experiment 1), aggressive cognition (Experiment 2), and
aggressive behavior (Experiment 3). Rewarding violent game actions increased
hostile emotion, aggressive thinking, and aggressive behavior. Punishing violent
actions increased hostile emotion, but did not increase aggressive thinking or
aggressive behavior. Results suggest that games that reward violent actions can
increase aggressive behavior by increasing aggressive thinking.
PMID: 16262775 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
10: Child Adolesc Psychiatr Clin N Am. 2005 Jul;14(3):387-404, vii-viii.
Children's exposure to violent video games and desensitization to violence.
Funk JB.
Department of Psychology, University of Toledo, Toledo, OH 43606-3390, USA.
jeanne.funk@utoledo.edu
Desensitization to violence is cited frequently as being an outcome of exposure
to media violence and a condition that contributes to increased aggression. This
article initiates the development of a conceptual model for describing possible
relationships among violent video games, brain function, and desensitization by
using empathy and attitudes toward violence as proxy measures of
desensitization. More work is needed to understand how specific game content may
affect brain activity, how brain development may be affected by heavy play at
young ages, and how personality and lifestyle variables may moderate game
influence. Given the current state of knowledge, recommendations are made for
clinicians to help parents monitor and limit exposure to violent video games and
encourage critical thinking about media violence.
PMID: 15936665 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[vfx2k4]

Quote:

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Actually, there are plenty of data supporting the idea that violence in the media increases violent behavior. Certainly behavior is multifactorial, and computer games contribute negatively.
Just a quick search on PubMed yields plenty of peer-reviewed articles, here are 10 abstracts:
......

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Longest, most-boring and well-researched post ever!

[rwmoore]

Actually there is a flaw in your logic. You need to understand conditioning, to know that there are multiple factors involved, and to know that not everyone will react the same to conditioning stimuli. Just because violence on TV or violent games do not make everyone more susceptible to committing a violent crime does not mean that it does not have an effect on some individuals.

[Peter Cohen]

Quote:

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Just because violence on TV or violent games do not make everyone more susceptible to committing a violent crime does not mean that it does not have an effect on some individuals.

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And conversely, just because violent games or television may have an effect on some individuals doesn't mean we should do away them all together. Herein the spectre of the First Amendment has always been raised when these issues get to the Federal Court level, and that's where the conversation ends, because violent art and literature have long had protection therein. We'll see how this battle is waged in German courts.

[rwmoore]

We have passed laws that make it illegal to use certain drugs because they are abused by a small percentage of the population. We have passed laws against theft because a certain percent of the population will steal. We have passed laws to protect our young (which are apparently more susceptible to the conditioning in question). I really don't see how passing legislation to reduce the violence in games, on TV, or in movies, and especially to prevent its exposure to minors is any different.

[MacTechAspen]

Nicely done.
I find a consistent flaw in some of the cited studies. They tended to show that those with aggressive behavior (A) spent more time than others playing violent video games (B).
This is a case of questionable cause. Just because A and B occur together, this does not prove that A is the cause of B. One may even go so far as to say it is a post hoc argument. A third common cause would help this argument.
The Yale study was one of the most interesting, but having an aggressive self image does not mean actually acting out violent events.
Most of the studies use very small samples, well under 1000.
Some of the studies have telling biases in that they start out referencing a general body of prior research as fact.
All of them study completely different aspects, and so the weight of them does not in any way add up to a conclusion.
I know I was the one that prompted you to compile your impressive post, but this doesn't quite go far enough to sway me, and I would really hope that it doesn't sway professionals in the field.
More research needs to be done, and care must be taken since we are talking about potentially tinkering with lives (e.g. introducing violent games to people who otherwise would not have played them).

[Peter Cohen]

Quote:

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I really don't see how passing legislation to reduce the violence in games, on TV, or in movies, and especially to prevent its exposure to minors is any different.

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Because neither theft nor drug abuse has been proven to be a constitutionally protected form of speech, unlike violent portrayals in art, literature and other media.

[rwmoore]

Peter,
I agree that what you are saying is correct, I just don't think it is right! Clearly, we have drastic differences in opinion; and I think we can agree that nothing that either of us can say here will sway the others opinion, so the discussion is futile. I think we will have to agree to disagree. Let's get back to talking about computers and leave the politics to politicians until next election day. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MCJ]

Quote:

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Let's get back to talking about computers and leave the politics to politicians until next election day.

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I think that's half the problem: society has abdicated these issues to self-absorbed politicians who are only interested in getting re-elected. To achieve this end they create publicity for themselves by whipping up a furore over trivialities instead of expending the effort to address the social problems that are really responsible for these trends, like the unravelling of traditional family values.