[MW Forums]

zCover's new Dvorak Layout Keyboard Skin lets you use a more efficient keyboard input method without having to replace your keyboard all together. more

[hgwells]

I have used Ten Thumbs Typing Tutor to learn Dvorak. I use it when I touch type. I use QWERTY when I'm just "sort of" typing. It's nice to have a correctly designed keyboard layout (Dvorak). But even many typing "teachers"don't know it exists.

[vfx2k4]

To each his or her own I guess but why on earth would I want to learn a whole new keyboard layout when I'm a virtuoso on QWERTY already? If you could prove to me that it's night and day different I'm there but it's still a keyboard with keys I have to relearn.

[highplnsdrifter]

I've always been irked that the QWERTY keyboard became the standard because of the basic reason for its initial design. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak[/u]Simplified_Keyboard
"The QWERTY layout was introduced in the 1860s, being used on the first commercially-successful typewriter, the machine invented by Christopher Sholes. The QWERTY layout was designed so that successive keystrokes would alternate between sides of the keyboard so as to avoid jams. Some sources also claim that the QWERTY layout was designed to slow down typing speed to further reduce jamming."
So we still use a keyboard layout that was designed so that a mechanical typewriter would not jam. That's just not right!

[hgwells]

Clearly, VFX2K4, you would not want to relearn anything so this wouldn't apply to you. However, others have found learning Dvorak does not interfere with their competent typing using QWERTY. But the fact that QWERTY was designed to intentionally make it more difficult for typists in part to prevent jams on early typewriters so the typewriter companies didn't have to handle those issues, that it requires more hand and finger movement which some feel may hasten repetitive motion injuries and that QWERTY just "coincidentally" has all the letters to spell "typewriter" in the top row for salesmen who may need help in finding the letters... all indicate to many people that QWERTY was not designed to be user friendly at all and clearly inefficient. Sure, people are really fast with QWERTY. But wouldn't they be just as fast with a different keyboard design?
There's a piece of freeware around somewhere that computes the number of additional miles (or whatever) that QWERTY requires vs. the same text typed using Dvorak. Need I add that Dvorak is always significantly less?
I do use both keyboard layouts, but Dvorak has definite advantages over QWERTY.
Yup, VF, to each his own. Keep an eye out on those lemmings ahead of you so you don't lose track of where you're going! :-)

[Euge]

The comment that QWERTY was invented to slow down typing and reduce jams is completely false and a common myth in the QWERTY-Dvorak debate. Sholes originally had the keyboard in alphabetical order, and to reduce the jams that caused, he came up with the QWERTY layout, so actually it was created to increase typing speed by reducing jams caused by the previous layout.
Regardless, I have dabbled with Dvorak and it is an excellent layout. It absolutely feels like I do less work and it feels more comfortable. I just haven't taken the time to master it.

[randyman]

Euge -
Your statement
a. Makes no sense (alphabetical layout caused jams, so an utterly counterintuitive layout allowed faster typing, and caused less jams? What?)
b. Is (drum roll) completely false. Dvorak was expressly designed to slow down typing as much as possible to prevent mechanical jamming. Not an urban myth, not an "old wive's tale", not a violation of fact; both you and the horse you came in on are simply wrong, Wrong, WRONG. Damn! What are they teaching the kids in school these days?

[radnuf]

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What are they teaching the kids in school these days?

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Mechanical engineering? History? Time, motion, fatigue studies?
Here is a link that might help understanding.

[PSM]

I wouldn't mind learning Dvorak, as I'll bet it would help ME type more efficiently, on MY computer. But what about when you use someone else's computer, then you have to struggle to remember how to type fast on qwerty. And god forbid someone needs to use your Dvorak-enabled computer for a second to check their e-mail or type in something for you. Switching it back to qwerty for just a few minutes or seconds is too big of a pain. But I guess it's sort of like being a Mac user in a Windows world: it's really efficient for us, but when we have to interact with others they sometimes get annoyed when we can't do things the same way.

[vfx2k4]

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Clearly, VFX2K4, you would not want to relearn anything so this wouldn't apply to you. However, others have found learning Dvorak does not interfere with their competent typing using QWERTY. But the fact that QWERTY was designed to intentionally make it more difficult for typists in part to prevent jams on early typewriters so the typewriter companies didn't have to handle those issues, that it requires more hand and finger movement which some feel may hasten repetitive motion injuries and that QWERTY just "coincidentally" has all the letters to spell "typewriter" in the top row for salesmen who may need help in finding the letters... all indicate to many people that QWERTY was not designed to be user friendly at all and clearly inefficient. Sure, people are really fast with QWERTY. But wouldn't they be just as fast with a different keyboard design?
There's a piece of freeware around somewhere that computes the number of additional miles (or whatever) that QWERTY requires vs. the same text typed using Dvorak. Need I add that Dvorak is always significantly less?
I do use both keyboard layouts, but Dvorak has definite advantages over QWERTY.
Yup, VF, to each his own. Keep an eye out on those lemmings ahead of you so you don't lose track of where you're going! :-)

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Why throw the lemming insult- because I choose to not relearn something I already know how to do just fine already? How about you go practice your preferred method of typing and I'll continue typing the way I prefer to. That ok with you? Sheesh /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[hgwells]

PSM, in learning Dvorak, you would also learn how easy it is to switch to the Dvorak keyboard (and back when you're done) on a Mac. Although, as with everything, it is not quite as easy using XP, it is still something you can learn to do without a lot of trouble. Many or most people learning Dvorak already know or also know QWERTY and can simply adapt to that layout when Dvorak isn't readily available.

[hgwells]

VFX, perhaps you overlooked the smile at the end of the lemming comment? Well, your "to each his own" comment was pretty close to a demeaning, dismissive addition in your first post. There is certainly no need for you to relearn what you don't want to learn. The reason for the response is that you went out of your way to say that you would not learn something new instead of just ignoring the discussion - as though we had personally insisted you learn something you didn't want to learn. I suspect your name came to no one's mind as the Dvorak comments were posted. Certainly not to mine, Perhaps it was simply a misunderstanding on your part. Relax! You're clearly a great typist as you are! No change required!

[leroybrown]

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PSM, in learning Dvorak, you would also learn how easy it is to switch to the Dvorak keyboard (and back when you're done) on a Mac. Although, as with everything, it is not quite as easy using XP, it is still something you can learn to do without a lot of trouble. Many or most people learning Dvorak already know or also know QWERTY and can simply adapt to that layout when Dvorak isn't readily available.

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Spotlight kinda screws up the old keyboard layout switch shortcut of old, but it's still pretty darned easy to do (I just disabled commandoptionspace for spotlight, and reinstated the layout switch). It's not so confusing for yourself to learn a new keyboard layout, but it's kinda funny to leave it there for others /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif (but I'm only talking about the German QWERTZ-style layout.)
Hey - speaking of all the complaining - the zcover keycaps have QWERTY on the keys too, and hey, A and M are the same... /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[MacAdict]

Hmm.... Just a few days ago I was considering attempting to learn Dvorak, but was discouraged by the fact that I would have to get a new keyboard (trying to learn the layout without labels on the keys is simply too much for me). I think I will buy one of these and give it a shot now. Best not to wait till I am older and learning becomes more difficult (but more necessary, since, with the amount of typing I do, my joints will undoubtedly become sore).