[tallscot]

I'm still trying to get my clock to stop blinking on my VCR! (old joke)

[minderbinder]

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....I envision an appleTv and an EyeTV, along with a recent Mac, making the perfect set up. Record your shows in EyeTV, let them be imported into iTunes H.264 format, then they can live happily with iTunes downloaded content, and be available a) on your Mac, b) on your laptop, c) on your iPod, and d) on the family big-screen TV.

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It's a nice dream. But do you have any idea how much time you're going to spend transcoding EyeTV archives to H.264? I've done some of that for playback on my 80 GB iPod. I start my CoreDuo Mini to convert a couple hours of SD TV and it's still nowhere near done 24 hours later. And that's standard definition, not 1080i. The video quality is a significant drop from the original MPEG2. It's really not a practical solution for most people unless you want to dedicate a MacPro to full time TV transcoding.

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My mini converts way faster than that (and the quality is damn close to DVD), what app are you using?

[montgomery_burns]

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My mini converts way faster than that (and the quality is damn close to DVD), what app are you using?

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Recording over the air HDTV broadcasts consumes up to 9 GB of disk space per hour. So I don't want to spend time converting at all. I would just like to be able to play the videos in their original file format.

[Machound]

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My mini converts way faster than that (and the quality is damn close to DVD), what app are you using?

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EyeTV 2.3 software to convert. It's a lot faster for MPEG4 export -- say 2.5 hours to convert one hour of 480i MPEG2. But H.264 is a beast. Conversion times may vary considerably. For the iPod I mostly stick with MPEG4 due to its faster transcode times. The post-conversion quality definitely suffers when the source video is low bitrate (multicasted 480i ATSC). YMMV.

[Machound]

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I don't want to spend time converting at all. I would just like to be able to play the videos in their original file format.

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My point exactly.

[mike457]

I have used an Eyehome for some time now, and I was hoping to replace it with Apple's new product, but now I'm not so sure. The only format I encounter regularly that the Eyehome does not play is H264; it does support AVI, VIDEO_TS, DivX, MPEG 1 and 2, and a couple of other formats. Because of this, a lot of the files I have converted are in AVI at high bit rates and 5.1 audio. For music, the only format it doesn't support is music purchased from iTunes. It also supports viewing the iPhoto library. The interface isn't great, though.
I am concerned about the statement that the videos are stored in iTunes. Right now, I have my videos (and there are a lot of them) stored on a separate hard disk with a symlink in the Movies folder. This works fine for both eyehome and Front Row. If I have to put all of these files in iTunes, where I already have 80GB of music, I'm going to need a MUCH bigger hard drive in my iMac.

[SmartPhoneGuy]

Quote: "You've got it wrong. The IPTV usage with an XBox360 will require another set top box in addition to the 360, the 360 isn't enough to get the content. It won't work with a 360 only. So, their solution is kludgey at best. To actually accomplish what the AppleTV is doing you would need a Windows Media Center PC and a 360, even then you couldn't stream your iTMS Fairplay encoded files. IPTV is a totally different beasty and it still requires an additional box."
You guys kinda have this wrong already. I bought an XBOX 360 this Christmas. I would tell you Microsoft already has a Music and Video Store already on the Xbox 360 Live. It doesn't require you to have a Media Center PC, although additionally the XBOX 360 can work with a media center pc as a "Media Center PC".. Your comments about content not being there is just wishful thinking. Every major TV network is already there with TV episodes for download and movies from major studios as well on the 360's video download service. I have already watched episodes of justice league, Supernatural, and CSI:Miami in high definition content downloaded from their store. Works just as well as the iTunes store..
If you really haven't taken a look at what the other guys are doing lately then you probably don't realize they have a lot more competition than you think they do.
Xbox 360 also comes with in addition to downloadable content but media streaming from a Media Center PC, AppleTV does nothing for me that the XBOX 360 doesn't already do, plus I have a rocking multi-core PowerPC core based product that plays great games to boot all for $400.
It's ashame that AppleTV can't play iPod games. I was hoping they'd go for something a little more than a set-top box here. I was hoping for something on par with TiVO.. Right now TiVO even looks more competitive and I am not locked into Apple formats.
This is definitely the year of the set top box, and Apple will have to do a lot to compete in the market. Now they go up against Comcast with their DVR, Microsoft (with xbox 360 and the Media Center PC), TiVO, and the new ATT home service box which integrates all of this kinda function as well..
Video on-demand is here.. YEAH

[k88dad]

Yeah, I could justify this with divx support. Without the format flexibility, it's just an iTS addon--at $300.

[warlock7]

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Have they said that the machine would only pull files? Can it not operate as a wireless hub? If so, that is one less thing I'd have to buy.

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I didn't get the impression that it would act as a hub.

[warlock7]

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Well, I'm not here to defend Gates or MS. It seems that MS wants this to happen, wants the 360 to be the digital hub of the Windows based home.

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I don't disagree, but I'm bull-headed that way, sorry. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I believe that MS intends to revive the failed UltimateTV project through the 360 too. I also believe that they intend to screw over all of their customers that already purchased a 360v1 by releasing the 360v2 even though they said they wouldn't...

[Ronald_Schoedel]

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It's a nice dream. But do you have any idea how much time you're going to spend transcoding EyeTV archives to H.264? I've done some of that for playback on my 80 GB iPod. I start my CoreDuo Mini to convert a couple hours of SD TV and it's still nowhere near done 24 hours later. And that's standard definition, not 1080i. The video quality is a significant drop from the original MPEG2. It's really not a practical solution for most people unless you want to dedicate a MacPro to full time TV transcoding

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On my iMac G5, it does not take this long at all. Odd. You could use something like iEye Captain to automate the process (any time a show records, it automatically gets converted to an iTunes format), or just set your PVR device to record natively in H.264 or MPEG-4 (if it supports it).
Ronald Schoedel

[warlock7]

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You guys kinda have this wrong already. I bought an XBOX 360 this Christmas. I would tell you Microsoft already has a Music and Video Store already on the Xbox 360 Live. It doesn't require you to have a Media Center PC, although additionally the XBOX 360 can work with a media center pc as a "Media Center PC".. Your comments about content not being there is just wishful thinking. Every major TV network is already there with TV episodes for download and movies from major studios as well on the 360's video download service. I have already watched episodes of justice league, Supernatural, and CSI:Miami in high definition content downloaded from their store. Works just as well as the iTunes store..

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I didn't say anything about lack of content. I am well aware of what is available on XBL, I've been a member since before I got my 360 launch unit (which I've had to have replaced three times already). The difference being that you can make your iTMS purchases portable, something you can't do with the 360. The reason we're discussing the Media Center PCs is that you need one to deliver content to your 360 to get it to function like the AppleTV.

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If you really haven't taken a look at what the other guys are doing lately then you probably don't realize they have a lot more competition than you think they do.

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With over 70 million iPods and just under or over 10 million XBox 360s in the wild, there is no real competition here. They're also competing for two different markets. Once VISTA hits things might change, but in the meantime, the portable music/film/tv market is pwned by Apple.

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Xbox 360 also comes with in addition to downloadable content but media streaming from a Media Center PC, AppleTV does nothing for me that the XBOX 360 doesn't already do, plus I have a rocking multi-core PowerPC core based product that plays great games to boot all for $400.

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Your 360 won't play any songs purchased from the iTMS, again, my previous point. If you have a media center pc and no iTMS purchases, then your solution works for you. But for those 2 billion purchases there is no simpler solution to play them on your TV than with AppleTV.

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It's ashame that AppleTV can't play iPod games. I was hoping they'd go for something a little more than a set-top box here. I was hoping for something on par with TiVO.. Right now TiVO even looks more competitive and I am not locked into Apple formats.

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Then why are you wasting your time trolling here? Besides what rumor site gave you the idea that Apple was getting into games now? Don't buy into all the hype. I guess that you should go put on your Microshaft hat and pick up a Zune while you're at it. Since MS made it, it must be good. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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This is definitely the year of the set top box, and Apple will have to do a lot to compete in the market. Now they go up against Comcast with their DVR, Microsoft (with xbox 360 and the Media Center PC), TiVO, and the new ATT home service box which integrates all of this kinda function as well..
Video on-demand is here.. YEAH

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Wow. Just for clarification, the Comcast DVR is TiVo and it has nothing at all to do with this discussion. The Media Center PC is nothing new, just that now they've finally started to add some value to it. We've discussed the 360 already, anything you rent on the 360 is only available to you from that device. The new AT&T home service is a very limited to where the fiber has already been laid, not very many places yet. You also need a set-top box to get the IPTV from AT&T and if you want it on your 360 like Gates mentioned, then you still need the set-top box from AT&T in addition to the 360, nice pile of equipment you're building there.

[icerabbit]

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I would be sold if Apple gave Mac users a bonus and allowed streaming of movies from the Movies folder on my Mac like Front Row can.
Please Apple throw us a bone here.
With this feature I could put all my movies on a huge HD there and watch them on demand.

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I don't see why you just don't drag your movies into itunes? Why do you have to leave them in a specific folder? It seems like you can already do what your asking for.

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If one has music in 'music', image in 'pictures' and movies in 'movies' ... why should there be a need to get iTunes involved? Just find your way through one or more folders.
I for one do not really like the requirement where everything has to get into the iTunes library. I would much prefer to see independent iTunes sub-libraries for podcasts, movies, etc.

[People_Eater]

Not a bad device. The worst part about it is the name. It's bloody awful. "Apple TV" is bad enough, but (Apple logo) TV makes me cringe. Has the Artist Formerly Known as Love Symbol been hired to Apple's marketing department?
OK, putting aside the awful "logo is part of the name" business, using "TV" in the name is pretty terrible. It's such a boring set of initials, which people are pretty tired of. But to add insult to injury, the (Apple logo) TV has almost nothing to do with TV! Sure, it plugs into a TV. You can download TV shows, but that's about it. It's not a DVR. It doesn't have a tuner in it.
They could have chosen a name that is funkier (like YouTube, for example) or more abstract (like iPod). After all, Apple has gotten into a bit of nomenclature failure by naming their media hub application "iTunes" when it now does a lot more than just tunes. I could see a similar problem happening with iTV.
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Anyway, on to the device. When it was announced, I was very interested. But I had strong suspicions that my requirements for the device would not be met, and they would not be met by a very slim margin, which would be almost trivial to overcome. Looks like I was right.
I work for a film studies department at a University. If the (Apple logo) TV had only done a little bit more, I would have ordered a dozen of them - to install with the video projectors in lecture theatres, to avoid the need for a computer in every classroom, and to avoid the need of distributing physical DVDs. Just a central Xserve with a bunch of (Apple logo) TVs providing the ability to browse and stream the media.
I'll have to get confirmation on this, but it doesn't seem that this device supports playing DVD images. That is the critical feature. I don't want to have to convert everything to different formats - not only is it a pain, you lose features like subtitles and director's commentary tracks.
I want to just make disk images of the DVDs. Apple's DVD player can play these image files - so I guess there is a chance that the (Apple logo) TV might too. But I wouldn't bet on it. What I would bet on is Apple steadfastly ignoring this vital (yet trivial to implement) feature until time stands still, and Blu-ray, HD-DVD and the Zune are successful products. i.e - never.
The second criteria is 1080i HD support. Now, this is not a deal-breaker, as standard DVD are 95% of what we do. If there was good support for streaming standard-def DVD image files - I would still buy some units. But our students are using HD video cameras now, and they all work in 1080i resolution (only). The cameras do a great job of converting to standard-def, so at the moment everybody edits in standard-def, even though there is HD footage on the tape. Because there's nothing around that makes sense to play back HD files on. No way are we going to invest in Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, when it is quite likely they will be expensive turkeys that don't catch on. And it's pretty hard to justify an iMac in every room just for playing the occassional high-def video, or even rarer Keynote or Powerpoint presentation.
But with 720p - err, no thanks. It's not that 720p is bad - it's just that it's not worth the scaling and deinterlacing from 1080i. If I'm going to invest in a video-on-demand system, I want it to play the native resolution and format of our camera footage. We'd have to replace most of the projectors, anyway.
So, we'll just stick with standard-def for now. It's a pity. I want the students to really see the fantastic quality of the HD video video cameras in its full glory. Apple could have cornered a niche here, while Blu-ray and HD-DVD are floundering (stupid flounders!). To have a convenient playback system for our existing SD and HD content, without having to buy expensive blank HD-DVD or Blu-Ray media and players, without having to buy more computers.
Without having lecturers get frustrated trying to use those computers, even if we did buy them. This is a huge point. Many academics are intimidated by computers. Even if they are great with other AV technology. Even if they can manage to write huge theses and dissertations on computers. There's just something about playing media on a computer that short-circuits their otherwise clear thinking. I think that the (Apple logo) TV would totally change that - just because it doesn't look like a computer. Even though they are still technically using a computer. It's friendly, like a DVD player.
Oh - and the students would absolutely LOVE it if the (Apple logo) TV could natively browse YouTube. My spidey-senses are tingling, and I suspect there will be a lot of essays and class presentations about YouTube, the culture of YouTube, YouTube in a post-post-modernist, post-feminst-punk society, etc. coming up this year.