[bdkennedy1]

I don't feel sorry for Sony. How many years did they have to figure all this out?

[tallscot]

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Because their quality control sucks total a$$.

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Interesting, I've heard from both sides of this question. I have had three PS1s and three PS2s, all were replaced by Sony free of charge long after going out of warranty. I've also got a 15 year old 27" and a 9 year old 56" projection screen, neither of which has ever had an issue. We have two Sony DVD players in the house that have never had problems as well as a DVD burner in my Mac. I also have a Sony camcorder that has gone through the ringer and still works like a charm. So, I come from the opposite perspective.
From my experience Sony quality control is fantastic and I've had great experiences with every product of theirs that I've ever had.

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I'm sure there are a lot of people who have no problems with Sony products.
I had two ~$1,500 Sony TVs require service after only three years each over the last ten years.
I've had two ~$1,500 Sony camcorders go bad within two years each over the last ten years.
I've had two Sony DVD players go bad within three years over the last five years.
I had one Playstation that lasted about a year before dying.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Sony rates well with the customer satisfaction or loyalty surveys that we see Apple win regularly. And when reviewing C|Net user ratings, Canon consistently does better with digital cameras and camcorders.
But go with what gives you the best experience. That's what customer loyalty is all about, right?

[hayesk]

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Isn't this contradictory? You say going through the motions is fun then turn around and say you don't need to go through the motions.

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I said I could just sit there and flick the remote around, but it's more fun to go through the actual motions. How is that contradictory? Need and fun are not the same words.
Besides, you'd get a sore wrist if you tried to just flick the remote to simulate the action.

[hayesk]

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It takes motion to make the game fun? Interesting how that works. For the past 30+ years I guess that we haven't been having fun sitting on the couch and not jumping around.

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Sorry, I should have said "makes it more fun."

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Well, you've already stated that everybody that plays a Wii already figured that out so it wouldn't take any "figuring out". Nope, most people playing on a Wii aren't aware and probably do believe that they need to jump around. Heck, read the forums, many believe that they need to jump up in the air to get their "Mii" to jump too, when in fact the Wii-mote doesn't detect jumping at all in that game.

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Ah, yes, take everything I say literally. Who cares if a few people thought they could make their Mii jump? What does a few people have to do with it? By everyone, you know darn well I don't mean "every single last person who ever even looked at a Wii." Instead of nitpicking, address my comment by substituting "everyone" for "a lot of people"

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Why? They do. You, me and everybody else look like a tool when I stand in front of my TV doing things that are way over the top to accomplish what can be done with a wrist flick.

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I don't understand that reasoning. If part of the fun in playing a tennis game is making tennis strokes, then why do they look like tools? Maybe people like going through the motions?
You can play Dance Dance Revolution with the regular PS2 controllers too, but it's a whole lot more fun to use the dance pads. Guitar hero is hugely popular right now - would it be just as popular if you didn't get a guitar shaped controller?

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I haven't met anybody that wasn't embarrassed when they found out that the same thing can be accomplished without the need to jump around.

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Everyone I know who has played Wii realized you can just flick the controller - not one of them chooses to do so.

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As if hunched down into the couch covered in Cheetos dust getting fat and playing Grand Theft Auto is a sight for sore eyes.

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I find it laughable that you blindly assert people playing GTA are covered in Cheetos dust and are getting fat. Give me a break... /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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Wow, isn't that my point? That making blind assumptions is ridiculous?
Regardless, this article is about Sony's sales figures and revenues. I offered an explanation that it could be that more people would rather play Wii than have ultra-modern specs and the same gameplay that they already have with the PS2. I must admit, I'm a little embarassed that I foolishly got led into an argument, not against my theory of why Sony's sales are less than optimal, but instead how much of a "tool" I look like when I play my Wii. Oh well, at least I'm in good company.

[bgillander]

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The Wii, however has it's place, it's a niche that's meant for the non-gamers.

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That has got to be the strangest quote ever, and I can't believe that no one seems to take issue with it.
So, is the Wii used mainly for spreadsheets then? It is a serious business machine?
This is like some bizarro world where games are serious business. It's like the 80's all over again, when the IBM guys would disparagingly call the Amiga a "game machine" until they finally got the ability to play some decent games, at which point it was suddenly important and "look what I can do!" Now it is gamer elitists disparaging Nintendo for being "for kids." Maybe simple, fun games aren't a bad thing.
Wow, games for kids... what a fascinating, new, untapped market!
Maybe not everyone wants their game experience to be made up of detailed beads of sweat and drops of blood. Maybe they sometimes just want a fun game. Maybe one size does not fit all.
The Wii is, by definition, most certainly for gamers... just not your kind of gamers.
PS. Before you reply that I am a Nintendo fanboy, I don't own a Wii and I will probably end up buying a PS3, if only for the SACD and Blu-ray playback. But I wouldn't mind getting a Wii, too, since they do look like a lot of fun. I'm just saying that they are all games and variety is a good thing.

[tallscot]

Wii or PS3, as long as you don't but a Microsoft product and contribute to their global domination!! Mwua ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!

[d00d]

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I like the Sony concept that you can use (most, not all) old games on the new machine (as on PS2)

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The Wii can play Gamecube games natively (as well as NES, SNES, N64, TurboGrafix16, and Sega Genesis games on the Virtual Console).

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As you mention not all are for the family games and personally I have had enough of Manga style characters, but hey just an opinion... I miss Zelda though

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I was being a bit facetious about the family titles thing. I love GTA as much as the next person, but it alone isn't enough to sell me on the Xbox 360 or PS3. I wanted to like the PS3, but there's nothing quite that compelling yet (perhaps because I lack an HD TV).

[HumanJHawkins]

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I find it laughable that you blindly assert people playing Wii look like tools. As if hunched down into the couch covered in Cheetos dust getting fat and playing Grand Theft Auto is a sight for sore eyes.

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Actually, you don't see the Cheetos much because they get trapped and hidden in folds of skin. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[blecch]

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The Wii can play Gamecube games natively (as well as NES, SNES, N64, TurboGrafix16, and Sega Genesis games on the Virtual Console).

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Nice, except for the fact that you have to buy all of your old games again to play them on the Virtual Console.
Not that Sony isn't doing the same thing - trying to sell you your old PS1 games again so you can play them on the PSP. A more customer-friendly solution would be to allow you to convert your existing collection (e.g. using the PS3) to PSP format...
Then again, a lot of those old games are better than new games anyway... and some of them are hard to find and/or very expensive on eBay, so a reasonably priced download option can be nice.
However, all of this is a digression from the main topic at hand:
When is Sony going to drop the price in the US?
49,980 is something like $410, which is a much better price than the $599 which we're seeing at the moment in most stores...

[warlock7]

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The Wii, however has it's place, it's a niche that's meant for the non-gamers.

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That has got to be the strangest quote ever, and I can't believe that no one seems to take issue with it.
So, is the Wii used mainly for spreadsheets then? It is a serious business machine?

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Not my intended point, but I understand what you are saying. The Wii, however, is a game console that is intended to attract a new audience to gaming, mainly non-gamers, Nintendo has said as much.
This doesn't imply that the Wii does anything other than run games, which of course it does more than that, but it does imply that there is an untapped market of non-gamers that will be interested in the Wii. The hardcore gamers, not the fanboys, aren't going to make the Wii their first system purchase. It's generally the second if not third choice, as in my case.
So, yes, I stand by my remarks, the Wii is a niche system intended for non-gamers.

[Stratmosphere]

I worked in retail consumer electronics for 20 plus years and durring that time sold almost everything Sony. It was my experience that Sony was the leader on some fronts (TV, VHS VCR, DVD, Walkmans, and Videocams) and failed badly on others ( Beta, Minidisc, Elcassette, Car Stereo, and cordless phones).
If there was a out of the box failure, we would exchange the unit for the customer. Sony would then require us to repair the unit, and NEVER take it back. These guys were the most difficult to deal with. They had horrible prolems with their Stereo receivers. The famous P light ! These pieces of garbage could not be fixed, Would they take it back ? NO ! The public perception is misguided to say the least as far as the moral compass of the company. We had mountains of broken product that could not be repaired, sold or used in any way .
I will also admit that sony makes some of the finest products, bar none. I just bought a KV40XBR3. A great TV for the PS3. While I am not in the Stereo business anymore, all I can say is that I hope it doesn't break !

[warlock7]

I do agree, the Wii games are more fun when you jump around and look like a tool.
Sorry to take you literally, but you gave me the opportunity, so I took it.
I've got to say that while jumping around looking like a tool playing Wii tennis is fun, but I don't think that it's any more or less fun than playing Rockstar's Table Tennis on the 360, as a matter of fact, Table Tennis is much more involved, has vastly more nuanced gameplay and you don't jump around looking like a tool. That being said, Wii Tennis is still fun, but the controller scheme doesn't make for a better game.
I was unaware that you could play DDR without the floor mat. But, yes that game has to be better when you jump around with your friends looking like a tool, a coordinated tool, but a tool nonetheless.
You don't seem to believe me when I say that playing the Wii and flailing around for the enhancement of gameplay makes you look like a tool, well, hook up a camera and film yourself from the perspective of the tv and you'll see what I mean. The Wii makes the people that play it look like tools.

[warlock7]

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I worked in retail consumer electronics for 20 plus years and durring that time sold almost everything Sony. It was my experience that Sony was the leader on some fronts (TV, VHS VCR, DVD, Walkmans, and Videocams) and failed badly on others ( Beta, Minidisc, Elcassette, Car Stereo, and cordless phones).
If there was a out of the box failure, we would exchange the unit for the customer. Sony would then require us to repair the unit, and NEVER take it back. These guys were the most difficult to deal with. They had horrible prolems with their Stereo receivers. The famous P light ! These pieces of garbage could not be fixed, Would they take it back ? NO ! The public perception is misguided to say the least as far as the moral compass of the company. We had mountains of broken product that could not be repaired, sold or used in any way .
I will also admit that sony makes some of the finest products, bar none. I just bought a KV40XBR3. A great TV for the PS3. While I am not in the Stereo business anymore, all I can say is that I hope it doesn't break !

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Well, you've had more experience than I have in the industry, time-wise, but I too worked retail electronics for just over a decade and I can't say that your experiences are universal. The RTV (return to vendor) status of Sony products appears to depend on the contract that they enter into with the retail outlet.
From my experience, I didn't see any one Sony product have more failures than any other manufacturers individual products, the big difference is that you don't have many companies that have such a vast number of different types of consumer electronics than Sony. Sony does it all, very few other manufacturers can say the same thing. Sony does, portables, phones, tv, stereo, car audio, computers and a lot more. They have more electronics categories than most other manufacturers. I would bet that since you sell so many more Sony products that you have the tendency to perceive that there are many more Sony failures, but as a whole I don't think Sony has any higher failure rate than any other company, except, of course, when it comes to laptop batteries. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Kurtster]

As soon as I can afford a PS3 I will buy one. I don't buy all the doom and gloom and FUD. I wouldn't be surprused if 50% of the anti-PS3 stuff came out of Redmond.
I REALLY want Blu-Ray. The fact that it's the same price, sometimes even cheaper than the current crop of BR players, and it comes with a leading edge gaming system is a bonus.