[MW Forums]

A three-layer HD DVD disc is still under development and hasn't been submitted to the standard's governing body despite some reports, Toshiba said Thursday. more

[rfmansfield]

I'll be interested to see how high definition drives are implemented into the Mac platform. I'm under the assumption that Apple will incorporate Blu-ray drives into Pro machines later this year. However, I would hope that HD DVD drives would be supported, too by those of us who would want to take advantage of them. The ability to create high definition HD DVD or Blu-ray disks ought to be an option for all of us.
But if Apple doesn't offer the option, perhaps a 3rd party like Roxio will.

[bjojade]

Gotta love how it's 51GB total size. They couldn't have just added another layer, as that would mean it would only be 45gb. They had to increase the capacity of each layer so that they could have bragging rights over Blu-ray.
Now, my question is, how much does it add to the production cost to make a 3 layer disc? That's going to be a deciding factor for sure. Granted, the cost difference may only be fractions of a penny, but when you consider how many millions of discs get produced, it adds up quickly.

[rfmansfield]

The other question is, "Will a 51gb triple-layer disk play on our existing/current HD DVD players?"

[flybynight]

So, could Blu Ray do the same thing? Add a third layer and they would be at 75Gb.

[Nobody]

Blu-ray already allows 200 GB (six layer discs). Apple, go Blu-ray! Fantastic for backups and extra media content.
STOP THE PRESS:
Blu-ray quad-layer (100 GB) discs have been demonstrated on a drive with modified optics.
TDK announced in August 2006 that they have created a working experimental Blu-ray Disc capable of holding 200 GB of data on a single side, using six 33 GB data layers
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Blu-ray_Disc

[Brendan_McKinley]

Quote:

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I'll be interested to see how high definition drives are implemented into the Mac platform. I'm under the assumption that Apple will incorporate Blu-ray drives into Pro machines later this year. However, I would hope that HD DVD drives would be supported, too by those of us who would want to take advantage of them. The ability to create high definition HD DVD or Blu-ray disks ought to be an option for all of us.
But if Apple doesn't offer the option, perhaps a 3rd party like Roxio will.

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Although Apple is on the Blu-ray Disc Board of Directors, they are planning to support burning both formats in their Pro applications, and theoretically you could burn a DVD Studio Pro project on either format today, however I don't believe there is currently anyway to play back the video on a Mac.
If you really want to be on the bleeding edge, Roxio offers Blu-ray support in Toast Titanium 8, and Lacie sells an external FireWire/USB Blu-ray drive. Although currently unless you have a set-top Blu-ray player, it would mostly only be useful for backup.

[Brendan_McKinley]

Quote:

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Now, my question is, how much does it add to the production cost to make a 3 layer disc? That's going to be a deciding factor for sure. Granted, the cost difference may only be fractions of a penny, but when you consider how many millions of discs get produced, it adds up quickly.

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I would imagine the price increase might be significant especially to consumers, look at dual layer DVD discs today, I realize this is only once source but a quick check on DVD media at Other World Computing reveals:
50 Pack Spindle 16X Certified OWC DVD-R 4.7GB Media = $28.99 price per disc = $.58
25 Pack Spindle 2.4X Ritek RiData DVD+R DL 8.5GB Media = $59.99 price per disc = $2.40
Instead of a price per disc difference we might expect of double or slightly higher, since each disc has double the storage capacity, we see a more than 4x premium on the dual layer media.
It makes me wonder what the markup might be on tri-layer media.

[hmurchison]

They'll get the TL51GB disc approved soon enough. The only titles I can really see 5xGB discs being warranted is the EE LotR series movies. Peter Jackson has stated that he has copious amounts of material never seen that he wants to include. Thus we cannot expect this series until 2008 at the minimum.
Toshiba did test small batches of TL45GB discs and had little trouble from what I've read but with these new discs they've shrunk the pitch of the data gaining another 2GB per layer. You could expect to see DL34GB discs as well. This is significant in that an extra 2-4-6GB of data helps out with squeezing in another audio track or adding more interactivity in some cases.
Apple has always been a supporter of both formats. They make authoring tools and need to cover %100 of the market. They are often attributed to Blu-ray because of overzealous reporters who took them joining the Blu-ray Board of Directors as some sort of statement of exclusivity. If you look at the Blu-ray BoD you'll find that %40 of the members make HD DVD products as well. HP being another large IT company.
As long as Toshiba gets this disc ratified for use next year we're sitting pretty. The costs will be expensive as compared to SL and DL discs. With each new layer that is added it becomes more difficult to return back a strong enough signal. 4 layer Blu-ray or 6-layer Blu-ray is going to be a mighty achievment to make IMO. I think home users will be backing up to HDD using Time Machine on Macs personally.

[tjustin7]

Quote:

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50 Pack Spindle 16X Certified OWC DVD-R 4.7GB Media = $28.99 price per disc = $.58
25 Pack Spindle 2.4X Ritek RiData DVDR DL 8.5GB Media = $59.99 price per disc = $2.40

Instead of a price per disc difference we might expect of double or slightly higher, since each disc has double the storage capacity, we see a more than 4x premium on the dual layer media.

It makes me wonder what the markup might be on tri-layer media.

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25GB Blu-Ray disks are pricing in at $16/disk.
So, by similar math we might see 50GB Blu-Ray disks costing in the range of $60+ a disk.
Going Blu-Ray only could be an expensive boondoggle at this point.
After all, it's effectively cheaper to buy an external hard drive than the Blu Ray disk equivalent!
i.e you can get a 100GB external drive for around $60 -- less than the cost of four 25GB Blu Ray disks.
While I'm sure 200GB Blu Ray disks are possible, for all practical purposes they're useless.
Why buy a single-write disk for more when you can get a rewritable disk with more capacity for less?
In other words, while the technology behind Blu Ray is interesting, the practical costs of it make it a poor value.
It would definitely be in Apple's best interests to see how HD DVD evolves and how it compares price-wise.
If a 51GB HD-DVD is cheaper than a 25GB Blu Ray disk, which do you think people are going to choose?