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I tend to agree. Even though GoLive will see at least one more edition, I sense a commitment from Adobe to move forward with Dreamweaver as their web development platform of choice. You can see it in the wording on the GoLive page of their web site. There are several new tools for "switching" to DW and references to tutorials on switching. The same pattern was used with PageMaker and FrameMaker after InDesign came out. This means the days of GoLive are numbered. I've been a user of both GoLive and DW since each one came out. I have always preferred GoLive for quite a few reasons, but the writing is on the wall. I've been waiting to see if Adobe would make some kind of decision on which product they were going to get behind and it seems they've made their choice. I hope that they've addressed some of the key frustrations designers have had with Dreamweaver, like the limited library capability, the cumbersome CSS support, and that stupid monster-sized break icon which destroyed your ability to see if a page was visually balanced.
Creative Suite 3 largest release in Adobe's history
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#16
Slinky82 
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Posted 27 March 2007 - 11:09 AM
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According to the website, you can upgrade from as far back as Photoshop 7. What is a bit of a short, sharp shock is that doing so has gone up a ton. Making such an upgrade was $549 when going to CS2, with CS3 it's $899.
According to the website, you can upgrade from as far back as Photoshop 7. What is a bit of a short, sharp shock is that doing so has gone up a ton. Making such an upgrade was $549 when going to CS2, with CS3 it's $899.
Where do you get these numbers from? According to this page the upgrade price is only $199.
#17
JeffM
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Posted 27 March 2007 - 11:20 AM
Quote:
Where do you get these numbers from? According to this page the upgrade price is only $199.
Quote:
According to the website, you can upgrade from as far back as Photoshop 7. What is a bit of a short, sharp shock is that doing so has gone up a ton. Making such an upgrade was $549 when going to CS2, with CS3 it's $899.
According to the website, you can upgrade from as far back as Photoshop 7. What is a bit of a short, sharp shock is that doing so has gone up a ton. Making such an upgrade was $549 when going to CS2, with CS3 it's $899.
Where do you get these numbers from? According to this page the upgrade price is only $199.
The numbers refer to the Adobe Creative Suite, which I believe is the subject at hand; not the individual components. The upgrade to Photoshop CS3 is $199 (Up from $169), but to upgrade from Photoshop to CS3 Standard is $899.
#18
chiggins68
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Posted 27 March 2007 - 11:21 AM
The key word being "from $199" when I looked this morning on the Adobe Store(it seems to be down now) it was $899 if you had PSD 7.
#19
adobephile
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Posted 27 March 2007 - 11:47 AM
No, it's not ridiculous nor stupid. And calling two distinctly different product families the same casts a dark shadow over your credibility.
Adobe has obviously invested megabucks on these latest upgrades which not only deliver on its commitment to convert its apps to the Universal Binary format (thereby reaffirming its commitment to the Mac platform), but they've also brought more apps to the platform and added many new features all across the board.
My feelings are that with the CS3 family and with the new Apple hardware and soon-to-arrive Leopard, we have a great new leap forward in production capabilities. Both Adobe and Apple deserve the fruits of their labors.
Adobe has obviously invested megabucks on these latest upgrades which not only deliver on its commitment to convert its apps to the Universal Binary format (thereby reaffirming its commitment to the Mac platform), but they've also brought more apps to the platform and added many new features all across the board.
My feelings are that with the CS3 family and with the new Apple hardware and soon-to-arrive Leopard, we have a great new leap forward in production capabilities. Both Adobe and Apple deserve the fruits of their labors.
#20
Grapho
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Posted 27 March 2007 - 11:56 AM
GoLive, Dreamweaver... To me it makes no deference. I have both, I use both and I like both. If Dreawever has the comparability with the rest of the CS suite that GoLive used to sport, heck, who needs GoLive. They are deferent, but similar enough to make the transition smooth. Its only a matter of willingness.
#21
alansky
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Posted 27 March 2007 - 12:18 PM
"I tend to agree. Even though GoLive will see at least one more edition, I sense a commitment from Adobe to move forward with Dreamweaver as their web development platform of choice."
The pricing of CS3's various packages makes it abundantly clear that Adobe is catering here to the professional market, which overwhelmingly prefers Dreamweaver to GoLive. This does not make GoLive a bad program; but it's not reasonable to expect Adobe to put GoLive up against a heavy hitter like Dreamweaver.
Dreamweaver, however, is eminently designer-unfriendly. It is primarily aimed at professional web developers... you know, the folks who compose html strings in their dreams. The rest of us (non-technical designers who design and build websites) have basically been left out in the cold. There are niche products like Rapidweaver, et.al., but nothing like a robust site-building app for professional designers who don't want to write code. This is the niche that I hope will be filled by the next version of GoLive. Bruce Chizen said as much a few months ago when asked about GoLive's fate.
Expecting web artists and designers to learn html is like expecting print designers to learn Postscript. The very idea is patently ridiculous.
The pricing of CS3's various packages makes it abundantly clear that Adobe is catering here to the professional market, which overwhelmingly prefers Dreamweaver to GoLive. This does not make GoLive a bad program; but it's not reasonable to expect Adobe to put GoLive up against a heavy hitter like Dreamweaver.
Dreamweaver, however, is eminently designer-unfriendly. It is primarily aimed at professional web developers... you know, the folks who compose html strings in their dreams. The rest of us (non-technical designers who design and build websites) have basically been left out in the cold. There are niche products like Rapidweaver, et.al., but nothing like a robust site-building app for professional designers who don't want to write code. This is the niche that I hope will be filled by the next version of GoLive. Bruce Chizen said as much a few months ago when asked about GoLive's fate.
Expecting web artists and designers to learn html is like expecting print designers to learn Postscript. The very idea is patently ridiculous.
#22
grbear
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Posted 27 March 2007 - 01:04 PM
Good, Adobe made their CS3 announcement.. now it's time for Apple to roll out the octo Macs so I can stop lusting for one!! Srsly, my aged G4 Sawtooth was replaced with a Core 2 Duo Wintel box (mostly because Second Life and WoW ran, er, crawled unbearably). A octo Mac is just what I needed to justify shelling out that much money again!
#23
Slinky82
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Posted 27 March 2007 - 02:32 PM
Quote:
The key word being "from $199" when I looked this morning on the Adobe Store(it seems to be down now) it was $899 if you had PSD 7.
The key word being "from $199" when I looked this morning on the Adobe Store(it seems to be down now) it was $899 if you had PSD 7.
Well, I just checked again. From Photoshop 7 and up it's $199 to get the CS3 upgrade.
#24
OM_user
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Posted 27 March 2007 - 02:47 PM
Quote:
Dreamweaver, however, is eminently designer-unfriendly. It is primarily aimed at professional web developers...
Dreamweaver, however, is eminently designer-unfriendly. It is primarily aimed at professional web developers...
So true, and is why I dislike Dreamweaver. I have no time (or patience) to learn all that coding stuff. I just want something that lets me be creative and put a decent website together. GoLive allowed me to do that, even though I felt it could be even more designer-friendly. For that reason, I hope it doesn't die completely.
#25
grbear
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Posted 27 March 2007 - 03:19 PM
Quote:
Dreamweaver, however, is eminently designer-unfriendly. It is primarily aimed at professional web developers... you know, the folks who compose html strings in their dreams. The rest of us (non-technical designers who design and build websites) have basically been left out in the cold. There are niche products like Rapidweaver, et.al., but nothing like a robust site-building app for professional designers who don't want to write code.
Expecting web artists and designers to learn html is like expecting print designers to learn Postscript. The very idea is patently ridiculous.
Dreamweaver, however, is eminently designer-unfriendly. It is primarily aimed at professional web developers... you know, the folks who compose html strings in their dreams. The rest of us (non-technical designers who design and build websites) have basically been left out in the cold. There are niche products like Rapidweaver, et.al., but nothing like a robust site-building app for professional designers who don't want to write code.
Expecting web artists and designers to learn html is like expecting print designers to learn Postscript. The very idea is patently ridiculous.
Actually, this is where professional designers and 'artists' butt heads. To make a proper web page, you need to understand the limitations of the medium your working with. Using a WYSIWYG editor more often than not produces unmanagable and bloated code that's neither optimized for cross platform or browser agnostic. I've used GoLive and it produce some of the worst code I've ever seen in my life (next to Microsoft Frontpage and Microsoft Word shudder).
Your comment about not expecting print designers to learn postscript is wrong.. it's like expecting print designers to learn about ink, and how different types of printing will affect the final output. You need to understand the medium your working with to produce anything better than a hack attempt.
People that "compose html strings in their dreams" don't bother with the likes of GoLive or Dreamweaver, they prefer to be unrestrained by the limitations of web design programs and use the likes of BBEdit.
At least Dreamweaver tries to offer the best of both worlds, it doesn't force you to choose sides.
edit: extraneous 'e' removed.
#26
chiggins68
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Posted 27 March 2007 - 03:39 PM
Slinky82,
The price your pointing to in your original post is for upgrading to Photoshop CS3 for $199. The Price to upgrade from Photoshop (versions 7,CS and CS2) to Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard is $899. It used to be $549.
Heres the link from the store:
Adobe Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard Pricing
The only thing interesting as far as upgrade options is Adobe is now including Illustrator 10 and up now for an upgrade path.
The price your pointing to in your original post is for upgrading to Photoshop CS3 for $199. The Price to upgrade from Photoshop (versions 7,CS and CS2) to Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard is $899. It used to be $549.
Heres the link from the store:
Adobe Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard Pricing
The only thing interesting as far as upgrade options is Adobe is now including Illustrator 10 and up now for an upgrade path.
#27
Grapho
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Posted 27 March 2007 - 03:46 PM
Quote:
At least Dreamweaver tries to offer the best of both worlds, it doesn't force you to choose sides.
At least Dreamweaver tries to offer the best of both worlds, it doesn't force you to choose sides.
You obviously used both. Like a said, I know both and each has it's strengths. To me the only thing that GoLive had on Dreamwaver was CS integration, now I have that on Dreamwaver and Flash. I can finally for go of GoLive and simply concentrate on Dreamweaver.
#28
ColoradoBill
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Posted 27 March 2007 - 06:27 PM
About a month ago, I received the official announcement of the the live video feed of the March 27 CS3 introduction. Adobe created a special page www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/launchevent/ which, if you visited it, invited you to "bookmark this page and join us back here on March 27." at "3:30 PM Eastern time."
So I put it on my calendar, rearranged my work schedule, and at the appropriate time, sat down to eat my lunch and watch the dog-and-pony show.
3:28 No preview or warm-up, I note.
3:31 Are they late starting? Well, considering the timing of the software release... why shouldn't the announcement be late as well.
3:45 Fashionably late is one thing... I keep refreshing the page, thinking that they must be having technical difficulties.
4:00 I have given up being hopeful and am seriously annoyed. Can't these people do anything right?
4:09 Time to go back to work. Thanks for nothing, Adobe.
4:10 One last act of desperation. Go to their home page. Oh, there's a link. To a totally different page. Live feed with your choice of views. "Now we'll take questions from the audience..." I seem to have missed everything. Quick trip back to the special "bookmark" page. Still the same image which has been there for weeks.
Adobe, I hate you! You cheated me. I will remember being the butt of your stupid practical joke for years after this software is obsolete and replaced by something better.
So I put it on my calendar, rearranged my work schedule, and at the appropriate time, sat down to eat my lunch and watch the dog-and-pony show.
3:28 No preview or warm-up, I note.
3:31 Are they late starting? Well, considering the timing of the software release... why shouldn't the announcement be late as well.
3:45 Fashionably late is one thing... I keep refreshing the page, thinking that they must be having technical difficulties.
4:00 I have given up being hopeful and am seriously annoyed. Can't these people do anything right?
4:09 Time to go back to work. Thanks for nothing, Adobe.
4:10 One last act of desperation. Go to their home page. Oh, there's a link. To a totally different page. Live feed with your choice of views. "Now we'll take questions from the audience..." I seem to have missed everything. Quick trip back to the special "bookmark" page. Still the same image which has been there for weeks.
Adobe, I hate you! You cheated me. I will remember being the butt of your stupid practical joke for years after this software is obsolete and replaced by something better.
