[MW Forums]

The news that Leopard will be delayed until October has PC World's Harry McCracken wondering what's on the way for Mac fans and when it will ever show up. more

[WyoMac]

I can remember somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 years ago that there was a rather large group of Apple II loyalists who resented all the attention that Apple was giving the Mac. To the Apple II crowd, the mac was percieved as an expensive, elite, closed system as compared to the expandable, user upgradeable IIe or IIGS, which was indeed Apple's cash cow. Not too much later, the Apple II finally died. Now the Mac seems to be being taken for granted while the world of consumer electronics seems to be Apple's focus.
Could it be that the Mac as we know it is also on the way out? I used to think that Apple would never again license its software to run on non-Apple hardware, but now, I would not be shocked if the release of Leopard will also come with an announcement that it will run on other Intel-based hardware. The iPod, Apple TV, and the upcoming iPhone are being marketed as much or more to PC users. I could see Apple continuing to offer unique hardware designs, but supporting their consumer electronics offerings by offering their OS on a wider variety of hardware.
To be honest, I don't really think that this is the case. But then, three years ago I would have never thought that Macs would be running on Intel processors either.

[JeffDM]

Bah, it really doesn't matter to me. I'll be waiting for a few months after release anyway and watching to see if all my favorite plugins, programs and extensions are compatible. I'm happy to wait until Spring 2008 if that means a stable system with minimal transition/upgrade disruption when all the third party stuff falls into place.
There are some major changes, like the current input manager system is said to be going away, but I don't know what can be done to make software like textspander work again on Leopard.
The only thing that I think was hurt is Apple PR's credibility. On March 25, Apple PR denied any notion that Leopard might possibly be delayed, and now, two weeks later, they quietly admit that it will be delayed. This happened with AppleTV too, they said that it would ship in February as planned but it was delayed about a month or so, both were hasty responses to rumors that seemed to turn out to be true, with egg on Apple PR's collective faces. Either PR is out of the loop or the company has gone just wacky.

[vfx2k4]

Meh- what difference does it make. Tiger runs great and other than the thrill of having a new toy no one is dying to get their hands on Leopard. Unlike certain other OS developers. And while we're on the subject isn't getting something that work a little later better than getting something broken on time. Or across the pond you can have something late and broken if you'd like...

[pixelcruncher]

Quote:

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other than the thrill of having a new toy no one is dying to get their hands on Leopard

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Anyone who has bought or is going to buy the quad-core (and even the dual-core) is aching for Leopard. It's 64-bit (jack up that memory baby!), and apparently is going to deal with multi-processing MUCH better than Tiger. If you want to see how the quad-cores are nerfed by Tiger, check out some of the speed tests out there. There's some disagreement whether the problems with the quad-core are engineering or OS, but it is a shame it isn't a screamer right now.

[iollmann]

I don't know if I would call Leopard minor. 64-bit literally touches every component on the system. It is the groundwork for what seems likely to be the new app paradigm for the next 10-15 years. It is also a chance for Apple to refine its Intel OS offering from what was a mid-major-release support update to a full blown peer with everything that entails.
I feel compelled to also note that it's not like Apple is actually preventing you from getting Leopard until Fall. You can get it right now, including updates through official release, for about $500.
http://developer.apple.com/products/ (See ADC Select Membership at the bottom)
The ship date is merely when the price goes down.

[krizoitz]

OK, do i wish Leopard was coming sooner rather than latter? Sure i do. But to everyone who is overreacting and thinking that Apple is suddenly going to drop the Mac, take a deep breath. The iPod was a huge success but Apple has kept the Mac up to date and much improved. And i don't think this is going to be a problem now and here's why. Its really quite simple.
iPhone == emerging product that has to be released sooner rather than later
Mac OS X Leopard == upgrade (however big) to an existing, established and still quite solid product
Which of these two do you think needs to come out first??? Leopard can survive a delay, the iPhone can't.

[spiderbat]

Quote:

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Could it be that the Mac as we know it is also on the way out? I used to think that Apple would never again license its software to run on non-Apple hardware, but now, I would not be shocked if the release of Leopard will also come with an announcement that it will run on other Intel-based hardware. The iPod, Apple TV, and the upcoming iPhone are being marketed as much or more to PC users. I could see Apple continuing to offer unique hardware designs, but supporting their consumer electronics offerings by offering their OS on a wider variety of hardware.
To be honest, I don't really think that this is the case. But then, three years ago I would have never thought that Macs would be running on Intel processors either.

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I don't think, either. I'm stating the obvious here, but one fundamental reason why Mac OS X is [much] more stable and user-friendly than other present operating systems lies in the fact that it has to run only on a restricted variety of hardware devices, which have been developed by the same company that developed the sw. Steve seems to know this fact very well, since:
1- it did something like that already with Next, and we all know the result
2- one of his first actions when it took the helm of Apple again was pulling the plug of clones
3- the Alan Kay's quote at the last keynote: "People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware."
Maybe Apple will drop the computer production altogether, specializing in technological gizmos for the consumer market, Mac OS X will fade out gradually into the sea of unix-based os distributions, and three young people in a garage will found the company that will bring out the real new thing, the [will it still be a "computer"?] for the rest of the rest of us... /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[jhoskins]

My concern is that Apple is so tight on crucial engineers that they can't handle both of these intiatives. These engineers are probably moving from Leopard crunch time because it was due this spring, to iPhone crunch time because it is due in June, then back to Leopard crunch time to meet the October release commitment. I'm afraid they will burn out and Apple will suffer from a brain drain. This equates to the analysts being concerned about Apple's "ability to execute".

[rfrmac]

I too am concerned about Apple's abilities to do what they say they are going to do. I don't like being lied too. Operating Systems are one of the most important parts of a computer. It has to be done right. But Steve, Apple can afford the people to do what it needs to do! You don't pay any dividends to us stock holders anyway. When you do things like this your hitting at your core loyal customer base. One week, no problem it will be out on time and the next, see you in October. It reminds you of a song doesn't it? The question is not whether Tiger is a good enough operating system or not. That has already been decided, it is, Like in every other business, including your own Steve, "Do What You Say Your Going To Do". And no, "everyone has to make choices" is not good enough. javascript:void(0) /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[sandman619]

Although it is disappointing, if the iPhone needs additional resources to reach the market on time, then this is the right thing. Apple has invested heavily in the iPhone. Both product design & launch is critical. If they were to let the iPhone slip to continue work on the OS that could lose their current momentum and cost Apple severely. An OS slip will have less of an impact. As I see it, Apple has a good handle on their priorities. That doesn't mean that they are loosening their grip on computers to go consumer electronics. Apple has managed a series of updates over the years, almost one a year. Steve Jobs even said that they could not possibly keep the current OS development pace indefinitely. Jobs is right. To be a great tech innovator like Apple, your focus cannot simply be on the next OS. New product lines, will also help maintain a healthy Apple through market cycles.
As for MWExpo, Apple made the right choice in focusing soley on the iPhone. By doing so, they got one message to the media and consumers. Had they introduced or covered other products, that added noise would have cost the iPhone considerable PR. Look for a more traditional software and hardware focus at the next Apple WWDC.
Cheers!

[trinigianetti]

What has not been mentioned is that resources are probably also being directed also to what should be the next generation iPod. I imagine that the wonderful new technology being touted in the iPhone, such as touch screen and wider display using different navigation than the click wheel will eventually show up in the 6th gen iPod. If I was Apple, i'd be aiming at Christmas for that. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[akira34]

I wouldn't have an issue with Apple delaying the release of 10.5 IF it was to fix code, add some important features that were dropped earlier in development, or some other OS X related reason. BUT to delay it because of the stinkin iphone???? That's just moronic. As others have mentioned, if Apple is too strapped for developers GET MORE!!!!!!!!! Have the people in power at Apple gotten so far out of touch with reality to think that delaying the heart of their computer line for a gadget is a good idea? It was bad enough that they locked the service into one that's crappy at best (in my area) but then they had to swipe resources from one division to get it out on time? Sounds like very poor project management/resource management to me.
If the company where I work announced that we're not going to release a vital product on time, and it's going to be MONTHS (days/weeks are understandable, not months) because we had to put some of the key people onto a pet project we're be in SERIOUS trouble.
I think all the analysts, and others, are missing the point from the people that are expressing outrage over this. Yes, the OS will be released in a finished state (not half baked). Yes, it's not a huge deal BY ITSELF. BUT, add to that the poor reason and you get outrage. It's not like with Adobe's products where we've been waiting for the next release to FIX major issues with the previous one.
Of course, it also goes back to Apple's tight lips about products coming up, and when changes will happen. EVERY other computer maker in the WORLD will tell at least their corporate customers when they will be releasing new product so that we can get ready for it. Why order 50-100 systems that are one model, when the new one coming (in a matter of weeks) is much better and fits the user's needs better? With Apple, we have NO WAY OF KNOWING when a new product will get released. Some listen to the rumor mill, but that's JUST rumors. Companies can't plan purchases based upon rumors. Of course, with all the other computer makers, we can get seed models (or eval units) before they are actually released to test them out. We ARE told if certain options are available at release time or when they will be available (still have no word on IF Apple is going to release a RAID card for their Intel Xserve line, have to assume it's a thing of the past).
Apple, IF you want to be serious about going after enterprise class customers, BECOME and enterprise class provider. Otherwise, you're just a little hippie run company with the mentality of still being run out of someone's garage.

[macnuke]

iLifone

OS X, iLife, Phone, all rolled into one.
I still wish for what Apple won't give....
small desktop, GPU card upgradable.
HD upgradable.
and something more than a laptop CPU in it.