[dirkrandal]

I work in healthcare... our IT department is a big PITA. Security-schmicurity. I don't understand what they are all uptight about. It was a hell of a lot easier to get protected information before technology made it electronic. Why do I have log on 100 times per day to do my job. That's a waste of time.
Why does business need so much high-level security. I was annoyed when I had to start carrying an RSA SecurID fob. Like my username and password wasn't enough! This is not Global Thermal Nuclear War. Is there really anybody trying to look at my patients latest sodium level (except me). Now my wife -- who works in the scrapbooking industry -- has to carry a security fob. Come on... this is IT job security. No matter what they do, if people want this information, they can get it. It does not matter how much "security" they build in. The people working are the true weakness of any organization.
Stop with the ever-increasing security measures that complicate and decrease productivity.
Further... why wouldn't corporate IT want some on-the-go data access via web capability built-in to the iPhone?

[jpmhughes]

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I support Mac OS X and OS X Server in a SMB environment. It is a nightmare because of half-ass programming from 3rd party vendors, expensive repairs and lack of availability of parts. This is the issue when you go with proprietary equipment.

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Hmm, so do I.
I must say, not a nightmare at all, quite the opposite.
Let's see, around 6 years, no repairs needed.
But even if I did need parts they are readily available (yes, I have checked, I like to be sure :P))
I could wait a while though, because I have a back-up system in place, which BTW, is collecting dust.
I started it up just the other day just to make sure it is still ready to go (it is).
The Server goes down, I have another in place and ready to go in literally minutes.
That is my job after all.
I don't know what "half assed" third party apps you are using, but of the few I use, again no problems.
Sorry I can't come to this discussion without some complaint and thereby coming off as some sort of "Apple fanboi", but well there ya go.
No problems, they "just work".
Jim

[Nobody]

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Woof!
Since this was in reply to me for some reason, allow me to respond.

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No, as you correctly guessed, it's just the nearest reply button. For some odd reason, this site utterly fails to provide a proper general reply button (or at least it's not obvious at the bottom of the page where it's usually found in most forums I read. If I were actually replying to you like now, I'd either quote or reference something YOU said.

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You spent a lot of time and energy quite rationally explaining why you aren't getting an iPhone. We get it. You don't want one.

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No, it's more like I'm disappointed in what iPhone is, but not just iPhone, most 'smart' phones as well. All of them are designed to cost you an arm and a leg to do something that is cheap by comparison using traditional services (e.g. my VOIP phone costs me $35 a month for all calls to US and Canada flat rate; no long distance except overseas and it's pennies to do that as well. Vonage would have been a bit cheaper yet, but there are added bonuses to getting the cable package I got.
As I described, I would like a WIFI enabled internet device that doesn't force me to buy a data plan. I suppose there's a chance iPhone will do that, but I'd say it's about as likely as hoping for pinball to become mainstream... not going to happen. AT&T wants to gouge you. I know this because I tried their Smart Phone offering a few months back, as mentioned. We already know you won't be able to get it as a pre-paid phone. $600 with a pre-paid voice and no data option that still works in free Wifi hotspots WOULD be one I'd be interested in. That's not asking much from Apple really if you think about it. You know, put the customer ahead of the business tie to AT&T, but I'm sure AT&T gave them a better deal to screw the customer. That's how these things work.

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What I don't understand about your post, and that of many others, much less the pundits the article cites, is why you go to such great lengths to tell us why the iPhone is not for you personally.

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Well, in the light that it would make ONE BIT of actual difference, I suppose there is NO point since neither Apple or AT&T gives a crap what I personally want, but OTOH I might as well as you why you're replying. People like wax philosophic about what COULD have been. Of course, if everyone agreed and refused to buy the product until they offered it in a better deal, it might have an effect. Apple clearly has a killer device there that COULD have been world-changing, so you can't help but wonder why they did everything in their power to make sure it doesn't change the world on that level by purposely LIMITING what it can do and whom you can use it with (providers). The answer is obviously $$$, which I have to admit gives me pause about Apple because in the end I'm afraid they're really no better than M$ on that level (putting money before people). I guess I'm not much of a capitalist at heart, but find Linux disenchanting for other reasons (lack of unified standards just to begin with).

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If you wrote about every product you don't intend on buying, I dare say you would have time for little else.

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Ah, I thought I was reading news here about Apple products because I'm intersted in buying a Mac and want to learn more about them and all things Apple before I buy a brand new one.

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Much speculation has been bandied about, some if not all of it may turn out to be accurate, but the truth is that we still don't know. Until we do know, how about a moratorium on idle conjecture?

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That suits me fine. Tell everyone else to shut up and not talk about it while you're at it, though. Why single me out?

[Nobody]

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Good bloody grief!! You have taken leaps of faith, or unfaith, chasms of speculation, abysses of non-sequitors and reams of iPaper to conclude what??? That the iPhone might be more expensive than you are willing to pay? Kai-yi-yippee-yai-yo!!!!

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And so you've replied to it anyway to say what? Hi, I'm another Apple fanboy with no point to make or opinon to give, but hear me roar anyway???

[JEB]

IT to Gartner: Avoid Gartner

[gaefstan]

"Youll have e-mail in a place thats unsecured. There are no firewalls on the device. Theres no ability to wipe (data from) the device if its lost, Dulaney says."
Can you do this with a Blackberry that's lost? Wipe all the data on it including your own files? Hmmm...
"The high price tag up to $599 is exorbitant for most enterprises, he says."
Heh. Have you seen what some enterprises (especially government agencies) spend on disposable technologies? It's amazing the true amount of waste there.
"Enterprises are not going to buy this so employees can buy music and watch movies, Dulaney says."
Very important statement and probably the best argument they have. There are programs in place that ensure that iTunes is not loaded on a corporate or government computer (you can actually get your system dropped off the network for having iTunes - made getting Quicktime difficult through our G6/IT). Funny thing is, they allow MS Media Player with access because it comes "bundled" with the OS.
"Tony Rizzo, ..., doubts ... that the iPhones battery will provide up to eight hours of talk time, six hours of Internet use, seven hours of video, and 24 hours of music playback. If a user were to click on the Wi-Fi radio inside an iPhone, the battery life would probably significantly drain." (emphasis mine)
Gee, no kidding. The same holds true for my regular mobile phone too. If I have a weak signal, the phone eats its battery up faster. Go figure. The numbers are no different than any mobile phone, MP3 player or any other electronic device that states battery life. It's all based on single function use in the best of conditions. As for the Wi-Fi issue (?), the phone battery time for internet use was tested using Wi-Fi (on a closed network using a dedicated web and mail server.
"the product does not support Microsoft Exchange or Lotus Notes, so corporate users would have to forward e-mail to an Internet service provider"
Funny here too since in the military I have to forward my email from the required client to the local base Exchange server.
"There are no firewalls on the device."
It states that it runs on OS X. OS X has a built in firewall. Is he privy to information that states otherwise or is this based on no listing in the iPhone ads for it? I don't know if it will be enabled or not.
to MagnusVonMagnum:
"It seems like I have to wade through tons of fanboy comments"
One persons fanboy is anothers evangelical or maybe just someone that likes what they have...Unfortunately around here we also have the other end of the spectrum, those that denegrate the system no matter the article and call anyone that supports it a fanboy.
"iPhone for the time-being at least will undoubtedly REQUIRE a data-plan AND a regular rate plan from AT&T."
Maybe, maybe not. For those that already have it, it seems a non-issue, for those that don't want it, this device isn't for them. Apple stated at the outset that they are only shooting for 1% fielding in the mobile space.
"No flash...Apple purposely leaving plugins out of the phone so they can try and leverage the iPhone to PUSH Quicktime..."
Where did you read this? I don't remember reading this anywhere although the Apple pages say full web capabilities. Also, QT is a plugin, it isn't built into the browser.
"For some odd reason, this site utterly fails to provide a proper general reply button (or at least it's not obvious at the bottom of the page where it's usually found in most forums I read."
The general reply button is on the first entry in the forum. The one marked MW Forums and containing the title of the article.

[suicideking]

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Can you do this with a Blackberry that's lost? Wipe all the data on it including your own files? Hmmm...

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Yes, you can. If one of my execs looses a Blackberry, I can flip a switch on our BES (Blackberry Enterprise Server) and the next time the device contacts a GSM or CDMA network, then makes contact with the BES, the device initiates a wipe.
Is it 100% secure? Dunno. Of the few Blackberries lost by my execs, I've never heard of issue where info was taken from the handheld and used in an illegal manner. Maybe that's luck of the draw. But I can tell you this - provided you've got an experienced admin properly setting up a Corporate BES, chances are very good that info on the BB will remain secure, stolen or otherwise.
There are methods around it. Steal the Blackberry, rip it open and directly access the storage chip on the device. Crack whatever encryption set via policy downloaded from the BES upon initial activation. That's how its theoretically done.
My company deals in some pretty sensitive information and loosing a device like this to corporate "insurgents" would be fairly embarassing. Obviously it becomes encumbent on any Security IT personnel worth his/her salt to scrutinize every potential security issue coming down the pike. The iPhone was flagged as such the day it was revealed. No one...and I do mean no one...in our IT group will be helping iPhone users setup their device to receive Exchange email.
There's no way to manage these devices from afar, at least from an IT perspective. Not in the fashion that Exchange 2007 and Blackberry Enterprise Server can. I can't send a remote wipe to an iPhone. I can't send a password lock. I can't send IT policy on pictures taken by the device (very bad for corporations that deal in Gov't or Defense contracts). I can't pull data from the device or log IM chats, SMS/MMS messages, emails from POP3 or external SMTP accounts, ad nauseum. (And yes, the BES can do all of these things - not many corporate BB users are aware of this)
At least....the iPhone can't do all of that yet. If Apple hopes to break into Enterprise environments with this device, they will absolutely need to address these sorts of security needs.
You might say this is all paranoia, but after having dealt with a few internal security issues at my company, some of which stemming from sensitive information being sent via Blackberry PIN to PIN communications...well, lets just say I don't think its paranoia anymore.
That said, I'm not going to get all snooty about our "secure handheld devices". My apologies if it sounds like I have been. I'm just speaking to the reality of the situation, or at least the perception of the situation. Heck, our corp doesn't even support Goodlink or Exchange direct-push because the perception is that Blackberry is more secure. We are a 100% Blackberry shop because of that perception. And I know plenty of IT admins in jobs similar to mine at other corps whose internal security and audit divisions feel exactly the same way.
Right now, the perception is that the iPhone is an unsecured device and unsuitable for an Enterprise environment. If the perception is incorrect, it might be helpful if Apple would educate us to the contrary.

[kingarthur]

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I work in healthcare... our IT department is a big PITA. Security-schmicurity. I don't understand what they are all uptight about. It was a hell of a lot easier to get protected information before technology made it electronic. Why do I have log on 100 times per day to do my job. That's a waste of time.
Why does business need so much high-level security. I was annoyed when I had to start carrying an RSA SecurID fob. Like my username and password wasn't enough! This is not Global Thermal Nuclear War. Is there really anybody trying to look at my patients latest sodium level (except me). Now my wife -- who works in the scrapbooking industry -- has to carry a security fob. Come on... this is IT job security. No matter what they do, if people want this information, they can get it. It does not matter how much "security" they build in. The people working are the true weakness of any organization.
Stop with the ever-increasing security measures that complicate and decrease productivity.
Further... why wouldn't corporate IT want some on-the-go data access via web capability built-in to the iPhone?

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Most IT's version of security is not computer based but JOB SECURITY! Heck why make things easier if it makes you lose your job? /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[kill953]

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Which is still more secure than forwarding it to your Yahoo! account, which is what you'd have to do on the current iPhone. That said, I'm a bit surprised with your comment. I'd have thought the military would have multiple layers of security on their e-mail. Forwarding it from server to server just adds more points where it can be intercepted.

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You won't have to forward it to your "Yahoo!" account - you can use your outlook web page site on the iPhone to access your corporate e-mail.

FWIW, for everyone complaining about the lack of Flash and/or Java. There is a blindingly obvious reason why it doesn't exist on the iPhone and is has nothing to do with excluding third party plug-ins: Flash content is served at fixed resolutions that you can't easily scale. IOW, you wouldn't be able to see or use 99% of Flash content on an iPhone because the screen is too small. Unless the site designer specifically creates content for mobile device-sized screens, you just aren't going to see flash on these devices.

[doglesby]

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If a user were to click on the Wi-Fi radio inside an iPhone, the battery life would probably significantly drain. Using a large touch screen to do anything is going to eat up a lot of battery life, Rizzo says.

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Gee, he's right I'm sure Apple didn't take into account these fundamental features during battery tests! Like the wifi radio wasn't on when they tested the battery life for internet use.
He likes the trackball on his Blackberry? It sure would be a shame to completely obviate it. I like the click wheel, but the touch screen seems a better navigation tool.
All the comparisons to the Blackberry are a laugh. The Blackberry's killer feature is email, not Office. Turns out the iPhone does email too. As for the firewall, who needs it? Who knows for sure it won't be there? Like the telnet, ftp, and http ports will be open on an iPhone. I agree that the iPhone is not a business tool (yet). But they went all blue in the face about it. That simply detracts from the report if you ask me.

[nmjim]

There doesn't need to be a second-generation iPhone. It has another great feature--an easy software update mechanism, right within iTunes.

[gaefstan]

KPO'M and suicideking - Thanks for the info as I was unsure if it had this ability. Since the ability to connect with your Mac remotely is being introduced as part of the OS in October, I wonder if that ability will be inheirited on the iPhone giving you the ability to do the same. Also another question, if I don't connect to the BES can I still gain accessto the files on the device?
KPO'M - it's only an issue for smaller businesses - larger corporations are rife with excess spending. Also if they do spend on things like this it is usually only for the upper tier and not a trickle down purchase. The government is even worse in its fiscal management.
On my military mail, it isn't more secure when it goes from the first Exchange server to the next Exchange server since it runs through the same ether as everyone else's email. I have actually received spam from one of my military accounts. I agree with the need for the ability to access other types of servers but most of the compatability isn't controlled by the phone maker but rather by MS or big blue.
suicideking - great info and I agree with the abillities requested. Actually my comments were directed at the assumptions everyone is making without ever having seen or worked with the device so far. The tone of the article is such a knee jerk attempt at climbing onto a device that's garnered such interest with what should already be a non-sequitur. Your company is a perfect example - they determined that it wouldn't meet their requirements and therefore said they wouldn't support it. Do we really need a company coming out and warning corporate IT that the iPhone isn't to be used or supported? I would have assumed that any IT worth their paycheck would already know what is acceptable on their network. Just knowing that you have to have an iTunes account to sinc the device should be enough to determine this since corporations (and government IT) tend to require that this program be deleted from any corporate owned computer.

[lakorai]

jpmhughes
There is plenty of half-ass Mac software. Developers make excuses all the time to why their software performs poorly or is missing features. Here's a list:
Timeslips - Dumped the mac in 99. No other software is as powerful for time and billing. You can claim MYOB or Quickbooks, but they do not have the reporting/page layout or reports features of Timeslips 2007 for Windows.
Quickbook Pro (JUNK!)
MYOB - Almost Junk. Runs slow/poor and is missing major features required for accounting and time and billing.
Mac Law Office software. Overpriced, outdated software interface missing enormous features that are available for a much lower price for Windows.
Microsoft Office (Can anyone tell me why Entourage is such a piece of junk and performs horribly slow? Why does word autoformat everything and why do I have issues with the beach ball spinning constantly when I do something as simple as change formatting? Why can't I sync tasks and notes with the Exchange server from Entourage?) Our employees still like to use Wordperfect 3.5e for OS9 because it performs better and runs faster. Office has sloppy, horribly written code. You can tell what a POS it is just by using it. There is no reason why a 1.5 G4 iMac should run Office 3-4 times slower than 1.8 GHz Athlon XP system running Office 2003.
OpenOffice/NeoOffice. The open source community is trying, but the Mac version is still much slower than the Windows version. It's still better than MS Office 2004 however.
MacLink Plus - still no Intel version. Still has major issues with screwing up formatting.
RETROSPECT - We dumped the Mac version and back our mac clients from the Windows version due to half-ass support from Dantz. Still no Intel support. Still no advanced featyres. Still no AES encryption. STILL NO ADVNACED BACKUPS (iterations) KEEPING THE PAST TEN OR SO BACKUPS FOR BACKUP VERSIONS. All these features are found in the Windows version. There are some very expensive enterprise applications out there; but they are not affordable. Apple is coming to the rescue again because a third part developer is doing a piss-poor job of keeping their software current and supported. TimeMachine Server should fix allot of issues, but Mac OS X 10.5 will require massive hardware upgrades to our G4 Powermacs due to more complex software, core image etc. It will be the only good solution for Mac OS X backup (Mac Server and Mac clients I'm talking about)
The point of the article is that the iPhone is not a business IT grade device. Unlike a Blackberry and WIndows Mobile, you can't remote push e-mail, remote wipe, remote change password, sync calendars/contacts/e-mail from your own server etc. On top of that there is no third party applications except through SOAP/Java programming on specifically designed websites. The Apple developers were very disappointed in Apple at this year's WWDC because of this. Apple and third parties might be able to turn this around; but until then the iPhone will not be supported in our organization. I will not allow access to our e-mail systems until these issues are resolved.
I do like the device and I will consider one for personal use when the third-party applications issue is fixed.
-Mike