[JakeT]

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I've been reading a lot of complaints of people not happy with the fact that Apple might take 3 days to replace the battery. I think this is ridiculous. First, they offer an iPhone rental. Don't want to pay it? Then find another AT&T phone or unlocked phone, and put your SIM in it. Think Apple should provide it for free? Too bad. These are the things we have to deal with in life.
If my car needs to be in a shop for a week, its my responsibility to deal with not having a car for a week. If my computer needs to be repaired and is gone for 10 days, its my responsibility to deal with it. If I have to go to the doctor, I can't force him to take me at 7pm so I don't have to take time off work.

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The last time I had the battery replaced in my car, they did it while I waited. If it needs more work, they give me a ride to work and give me a ride back when the car is fixed. On other phones, replacing a battery is an easy do it yourself thing that takes about 10 seconds.

[Euge]

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I've been reading a lot of complaints of people not happy with the fact that Apple might take 3 days to replace the battery. I think this is ridiculous. First, they offer an iPhone rental. Don't want to pay it? Then find another AT&T phone or unlocked phone, and put your SIM in it. Think Apple should provide it for free? Too bad. These are the things we have to deal with in life.
If my car needs to be in a shop for a week, its my responsibility to deal with not having a car for a week. If my computer needs to be repaired and is gone for 10 days, its my responsibility to deal with it. If I have to go to the doctor, I can't force him to take me at 7pm so I don't have to take time off work.

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The last time I had the battery replaced in my car, they did it while I waited. If it needs more work, they give me a ride to work and give me a ride back when the car is fixed. On other phones, replacing a battery is an easy do it yourself thing that takes about 10 seconds.

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But if they took your car for 3 days, would they give you a rental at no cost? Would they drive you to the grocery store, and home, and pick up your kids for you? That's why I said, often companies will do what they can, but not at the expense of losing money. These are analogies, so examples like yours don't disprove my point. They're still only responsible for fixing the car. Not for making sure you always have one.
On other products, they have a removable battery. The iPhone doesn't. If it did have a removable battery, it wouldn't be as thin, and maybe as durable. This is Apple's DESIGN decision. Its their product to engineer. And I assume they didn't make it non-user replaceable, just to be a pain in the ass to their customers. (I doubt they're making money hand over fist with the $80 fee.) I trust they took in consideration how many people need to replace their battery, and how often. If 90% of people had to change their battery every 6 months, I trust they would have designed it differently.

[George76]

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So to jwharding28, I find it a little disconcerting that your reconsidering an iPhone purchase, on the sole fact that you MIGHT be without it for 3 days, IF you have to replace the battery. Or is it based on principle? (If so, as I've illustrated above, there are a lot of other companies/industries you can boycott based on the same principle, and especially who charge more than $30.) And the probability that you'll turn in your iPhone for battery replacement is less than the probability that you won't.

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My cell phone IS my phone. I have no home phone. The only other easy access I have to a phone is out work. Being without my cell phone for 3 days would not be good. I know there are others who have also given up their land lines for just a cell phone (really, why pay for 2 phones?). That's why for some 3 days is unreasonable. Others might be using it for work, for the email access where they have to travel. 3 days is likewise unacceptable in that case.
Great, I can rent a replacement (I'm assuming that's accurate since I haven't actually read anything about that and don't feel like looking). So the cost of replacement goes from $86 to $116 (I'm again assuming the $30 figure you used was the rental fee). $116 for a battery. One more time, $116 for a battery.

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And to think that Apple could do a battery replacement with same day turnaround is unreasonable. Here's why: I'm assuming that iPhone battery replacement is similar to iPod, where it might actually be a refurbished replacement. Even if not, these things are not easy to take apart and is not a 5-minute job.

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Why is it unreasonable? Apple designed the thing. It seems like they should have designed the battery to be easily replaced considering how they estimate battery life to be about a year.

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To put it in perspective, let's say that Apple DID offer to do it right there and then. It'll probably take between 30 minutes to 1 hr, between them taking apart the phone, replacing the battery, verifying the phone works, the consumer making payment, then doing the paperwork. So you walk into the store and ask, "Can you replace my battery while I wait?" and the reply will be, "Sure, come back in 2 weeks." Why? Because instead of a Genius taking 10 minutes to pack up the phone, do the paperwork, and send it to a shop where they replace batteries en masse, they spend 30 minutes to an hour with each customer. I don't know about you, but I'd rather hear, "we'll have it ready in 3 days," than "we'll have it for you same day. Come back in 2 weeks."

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Um, how many people do you think will be bringing in iPhones on a daily basis to have the battery replaced? Again, it goes back to the design issue. Apple should have designed so that both Apple AND AT&T support could have relatively easily replaced the battery. There are plenty of AT&T retailers around that any wave of iPhone battery replacements could be spread out across them (as opposed to all falling on the Apple Stores which aren't very well distributed).

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So then you think, well then Apple should hire more people. No problem! But who is going to pay for them? Either the cost of the phone goes up, or the battery replacement cost goes up. The money has to come from somewhere.

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And $86 for a replacement battery is reasonable? The battery is roughly 20% of the phone's total cost? It's not easy to remove and replace the iPhone battery, you say? Again, that was an Apple design issue that the customer is supposed to deal with. When my Verizon battery died because of moisture damage, I paid all of $15 for the replacement. And it was done while I stood there.

[jwharding28]

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Don't want to pay it? Then find another AT&T phone or unlocked phone, and put your SIM in it. Think Apple should provide it for free? Too bad. These are the things we have to deal with in life.

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Did I suggest that I didn't want to pay for it? My question was whether or not I had a reasonable expectation. Please note that I allowed for the possibility that I was wrong. And again, I never objected to price.

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If my car needs to be in a shop for a week, its my responsibility to deal with not having a car for a week. If my computer needs to be repaired and is gone for 10 days, its my responsibility to deal with it. If I have to go to the doctor, I can't force him to take me at 7pm so I don't have to take time off work.

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But a car being in the shop for a week would be regarded as a major repair. If I took a hammer to my iPhone, then surely I would expect the repair would take a long time. This is a repair that I would imagine would not take as long. If your timeline is correct, then it makes more sense. That's why I asked my question.

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I wish car rental were freely provided by my mechanic/dealer/insurance.

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It often is. It's an extra on your insurance, but I'd be happy to pay for AppleCare to have this happen. I'm not asking for something for nothing. Somehow you got that out of my question regarding turnaround time.

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So to jwharding28, I find it a little disconcerting that your reconsidering an iPhone purchase,

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Disconcerting? Wow. As long as you aren't overreacting.

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So then you think, well then Apple should hire more people. No problem! But who is going to pay for them? Either the cost of the phone goes up, or the battery replacement cost goes up. The money has to come from somewhere.

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And now it's a good thing you aren't putting words in my mouth. Again, I'd be happy to pay for AppleCare the same way I have for my iPod and my MBP. Heck, I don't mind paying the fee for the repair. Repair. A word I used in my original post. I never suggested that I get something for nothing. I'm a capitalist. I believe in companies making a fair profit. How you got anything else from my post is beyond me.

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Anyway, I had no idea this would turn into a rant. And to jwharding28, I don't mean to reply with any hostility. Its just that its natural for consumers to think in their own little world, when usually there's much more to it than that. Companies need to make money, and (usually) make decisions based on this, not just to randomly stick it to their customers.

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But it did turn into a rant, you were aware of it, and you still hit send. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I teach Economics, I don't need a lecture on the most basic concepts involving consumer behavior or on the need to make money in a capitalist system. I'm sorry that I upset you so. Really. All I wanted to know was whether or not this turnaround time was reasonable. You eventually provided an solid argument for why indeed it might be. I just wish you hadn't felt the need to slam me quite so hard, particularly when I did not suggest most of the issues you raised in your reply.
You mentioned a rental program? That would in fact resolve my issue. Do you have a link with info on that?
Thanks for the info. And enjoy your iPhone if you end up with one.

[jwharding28]

I feel responsible for things going somewhat off-topic here, so let me say this. I'd like to echo the sentiments regarding the depth and breadth of the review so soon after the device's release. Well done.
A concern with regard to the Calendar. Is it reasonable to expect that color-coding of calendars will be functionality that will come later down the line? It's something I like about my Treo, that I can have colors to match those on iCal, and it syncs perfectly with The Missing Sync. I expected that the version on the phone would have been a close match with iCal...
It isn't earth-shattering, but a nice feature I hope will emerge over time.
I'm locked into a contract with Sprint for now. Besides, I'm certain iPhone 2.0 or some later iteration will have a stronger feature set, more storage, and perhaps a lower price. I have a useful phone that suits my needs for now, but an Apple solution looks mighty nice as a possibility down the road.
If it can in fact have enough storage in a year or two to replace my 60 gb iPod, well, that would flat-out seal the deal. But I imagine we're looking quite a bit down the road before flash storage of that capacity becomes inexpensive enough.
One can hope...

[Euge]

jwharding28 -- I'm sorry you took the post personally. It wasn't meant to be. Your post just sparked a general rant I have. Here are some useful links to the battery replacement program and rental:
http://www.apple.com...ervice/battery/
http://www.apple.com...vice/faq/#faq11
http://www.apple.com.../service/terms/
And if anyone's responsible for the thread going off topic, its me /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Regarding the Calendar app, I think it'll get much better. Especially considering my theory that its the one application they put on the back burner before launch. I think it'll eventually incorporate general iCal functionality such as multiple calendar colors, and hopefully being able to assign new events to different calendars. I theorize these were functions they could let slip, and take care of in a software update after launch.

[jwharding28]

I appreciate it. Thanks for the links too.
I'll say this; now that I have more info, while I don't object to the process, given that a service phone will be made available, I do think that a total cost of $115 is pricey. I also think that a program similar to what is offered with the iPod whereby battery replacement is included in an AppleCare purchase would be desirable.
But my concern about a lack of a phone for 3-6 days (let's say you bring in the phone on a Thurs., 3 biz days would mean no phone until Tues. or Weds.) is allayed by the rental availability.

[Peter Cohen]

The thing to bear in mind is that "iSync," as we've known it, has largely been incorporated into a foundation Tiger technology called "Sync Services." To that end, a lot of applications employ Sync Services as a method for synchronizing data exchange between each other and between the Mac and external data sources including PDAs and smartphones.
So no, I don't see iSync or iTunes as a means to an end to force peripheral makers to do what Apple wants them to do; the fact is, Apple has exposed what needs to be exposed in the operating system, and it's largely already up to individual developers and peripheral makers to take advantage of what's there.

[jwharding28]

If Apple were to kill iSync, the solution for folks like me with Treos would be to user The Missing Sync. In fact, I do use it already. But that's by choice, because I feel it brings added functionality.
If the functions can be written into iTunes, then there wouldn't be much of a prob, because there would still be a no-additional-cost proggy with the OS that would provide full syncing.
Here's a question that I suppose I should direct to the folks at TMS; does the software architecture permit them to write a program to sync the iPhone? Or is it closed to the point where they won't have the chance to do so?

[dansterpower]

Yah, I've had one of those treos and the Pearl too.
No thanks, I'll take the sealed case on the iPHone. In three days, I can already tell it blows the other two in terms of strength.

[d00d]

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Anyway, something that, from what I can tell, no phone does, but would be nice to have to extend battery life is a smart charger (or built-in functionality into the phone) that would shut off the charger once it reached 90% capacity, vs. 100% capacity, should the user desire. Lithium-ion batteries lose capacity over time as the full charge causes crystalization of the chemicals inside. Charging it just below full reduces the rate of crystalization, extending battery life.

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If this is true, why don't all devices that use these batteries charge only to 90%? Or better yet, build it into the spec, and make 90% the new 100%?

[debohun]

The phone itself sounds amazing and apparently lives up to the hype; we wouldn't expect anything less from Apple. That's not the problem. As Jim McBee points out on his MostlyExchange blog (http://mostlyexchange.blogspot.com/), the problem is not with the phone, but with the total cost of ownership and the precedent-setting two-year contract requirement for an unsubsidized phone. AT&T appears to be trying to leverage iPhone mania to change the rules on how consumers and cell carriers do business.

[bigpics]

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Apparently, if the battery loses it's ability to charge.. you must send it out and lose use of the device for 3 days!
Seriously, that might just keep me from getting this phone.
Am I wrong to think that a reasonable solution would be to have it be a repair that could be done in an Apple Store, with same-day turnaround???

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Doubtful.

The battery's soldered in, so it's not just a matter of screw drivers and having a set of instructions. This is probably for device reliability and to avoid any current leakage to max out talk/play time. And they're not doing procedures like that at either Apple Stores or ATT&T storefronts and kiosks.
Yet.
But maybe when there's 30-40M out in the wild and they start to need batteries en masse 18-24 months from now....??

[BreakOnThrough]

Jason did a great review!!!! Told all the good and bad points. I like the iPhone, I think it will be a very useful device to me. I have really never been into cell phones, but the iPhone I like the internet, email, music & video player, map functions. It's like having a mini computer with access to information you need where ever you happen to be. Could it be better, sure, but right now I'm very impressed.