[scotts13]

I am in fact currently having this conversation with a person who wants to buy a new computer, but hasn't used one since Windows 3.1. What she's heard from friends so far is that "Gateway has the best support" and "OS X is made by the Devil."
I started explaining viruses and spyware, and she'd never heard of them... Oh, boy.

[kennethfcooper]

I had an experience this weekend that reminded me of the difference between PC's and Macs. I was looking at the M-Audio Fast Track Pro for microphone, guitar and MIDI I/O. I downloaded the manual which is for both PC's and Macs. The PC section had an extra page describing an additional tab in the setup software for controlling latency. You could could choose "varying degrees of latency" from 80 to 2048. A "degree of latency" is actually buffer size. If you choose a larger number, recording gets more difficult and less accurate. If you choose a smaller number you introduce noise into the recording. The MacIntosh just works.
Then I searched for reviews. In most cases, if the review was positive, the reviewer was using a Mac and if the review was negative, the reviewer was using a PC. There were exceptions, but I found only one Mac user that was not happy.
Note that they were not reviewing the computers, so that bias was removed. Interesting.

[hgwells]

Taldrich, my mother lives a couple thousand miles from me. I do maintenance on her iMac, help with problems or confusions, and do training on anything that might confuse her from here using Apple Remote Desktop with or without iChat or the phone. That may not be worth the investment for you if these are "just friends" and not really special friends who might help buy it for you (they won't need it) or relatives for whom you may get it anyway. But as long as both have a decent speed Internet connection, you don't need much else unless a hardware issue arises. Hardware issues are problems anywhere but Apple can handle them directly in most places. I don't know about Wales, but it doesn't sound to me that it should be beyond Apple support.

[montoid]

. . . not really. Just had a quick look on the apple uk store site. 1699 for an "entry-level" pro, that's interesting! Err, I would expect the majority of buyers to be mid-level, yes? What use is an integrated screen when you want to change your computer again? I say again, one thousand!, six hundred! and ninety-nine pounds! for ENTRY level! . . .

[np2]

Yes, Macs are great for first-time buyers (except masochists), graphics professionals (except where Mac-hating IT departments have the last word) and portable users (almost in general). However, Apple is not offering me anything decent to take the place of my two year old G4 mini, unless I throw away my 19" screen...

[hautster]

Yes, but with that, you just contradicted yourself. An "entry level" pro. think about it. That machine is for people who either make money off their computer, or do a lot of gaming.
You state the iMac as not being a choice because of the built-in monitor. Good. Sell the thing and get quite a lot for it when you want to upgrade. That's the nice thing about Macs-they hold their value VERY well. Use that money to put towards the next machine.
Finally, for entry level stuff, as the article says, the mini is a good choice. Max out the Ram and it's a very capable machine. 399 for the entry level. (529 for the suped-up one). No, it doesn't have slots, which might be a downside if you are one of the people who do your own upgrades.
Again, the article is for the casual or entry-level user, which it hit on pretty well.

[MrMuckle]

leicaman has my thoughts exactly. Who hates OS X? I've never heard of such a thing from anyone who has actually used it. The better question, besides "What computer should I buy?" is probably, "What operating system do I want to use?" If someone wants to use Windows, God help them. Better just let them go. "There is no companionship with a fool," the old saying goes.

[TheShadow]

I don't believe that the Mac isn't the best recommendation for any computer user. Here why:
First, even though the Mac can run Windows (via Boot Camp, Parallels or VMWare), the user still has to go out and buy a several hundred-dollar version of Windows XP or Vista, on top of the price they just paid for a new Mac computer.
Second, Who's going to install the Windows XP or Vista on the Mac? Install Windows the Mac might be a turn off for the average non-geeky person.
Third, who's going to install all of the programs that I need to run on my Windows partition? Well the user is going to have to do that.
Fourth, who's going to transfer over all of my documents to my new Mac with a Windows parathion? Well the user is going to have to do that.
Fifth, who's going to support my new Mac, running Windows? If the user has a problem whom do they call? You can't call up Apple, and expect them to support your Windows partition.
Sixth, what about upgrade options? Upgrading the motherboard, CPU, GPU and hard drive on the Mac isn't an easy process (unless you shell out $2,500 bucks for a Mac Pro). And whos going to do that when for the must part most users just want to check email, surf the web, and type out Word documents.
Seventh, Hardcore gamers want to build their own computers, that way they get exactly what they want for the price that theyre willing to pay.
So you see, even though the Mac can run Windows it's still not the best option for every computer user. From the non-geeky users who doesnt want to mess with install Windows and all of their programs and files, to the super geeky users who want to build their own high end gaming systems. The Mac simply can't be the end all be all to all users, unless Apple addresses these areas. Which I don't see them doing anytime soon.

[montoid]

Surely cost is a large part of the buying process and the "competitive price example" given in the article was for a high-end pro machine, not for mid-level users. By "entry level" I meant the base pro model. I'm surprised by the resellability of Macs, I have an old XP laptop at home which among other things I use to watch divx movies, because I'm a bit of a nerd I decided to upgrade one of the old obsolete macs at work of comparable age and power (a G4) with OS X and see how it coped with divx, it was useless, so I looked into upgrade parts for it, just not cost effective in any way.
As I said, I'm a Mac fan, especially seeing as I use one all day, every day, BUT I'm not biased towards them like some . . . (thank the lord my boss pays for everything!, lol)

[griffman]

1) Through XP, you could buy a legal-to-use XP for about $129. Sadly, Vista seems to have ended that practice (not an OEM disk, a system builder disk).
2) There are at least two places I know of that will pre-configure your Mac with Boot Camp and Windows.
3) Who would do that if you bought a Windows machine of your own? You would.
4) Who would do that transfer if you bought a new Windows machine to replace your existing Windows machine? You would.
5) You would call Microsoft, of course, since you're running their OS. If you have a hardware problem, you call Apple.
6) If all a user wants to do is surf, check email, and write Word documents, they will not have a need to do any of the things you've listed. If they do happen to run out of drive space, they can easily add a FireWire or USB2 hard drive. I also noted right there in the article that those who like to tinker with their hardware are not ideal Mac purchasers.
7) I also wrote that hardcore gamers are not ideal Mac purchasers, so I completely agree with this one point.
-rob.

[TeaEarleGreyHot]

Quote:

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I don't think I'd consider a mac on the simple fact of price/upgradeability and performance.

---

Your G5 Dual will retain its value and usefulness far longer than generic PCs, don't you think? And the ability to run multiple OS's further increases the life of the hardware. My Pismo powerbook is over 7 yr old now, and it's still going great, and does everything I need quite well. All I've done is upgraded the RAM and the drive. I think we forget that even 2 extra years' service from a Mac (compared to a generic PC) translates to savings in three ways: (1) fewer total purchases overall; (2) the delay in needing to replace hardware means the future hardware will have even greater capability and lower price than if it was purchased sooner (because with time, prices drop and power increases); (3) fewer changes in hardware/software/OS means less time and productivity lost to the "learning curve" of adapting to new versions.

[bnw]

Hello.
I have a first generation Intel core duo mac book pro. Up until a little over a month ago it was a swell machine. I use it to develop online learning applications using such tools as Flash and Final Cut Pro.
In mid-May I was introduced to Second Life www.secondlife.com at a university conference. I was quite impressed it. I immediately created an account and off I went.
That's when the problems began. My computer started running very hot to the point where I could no longer have it in my lap. I downloaded smcFanControl and found that with Flash running the cpu temperature was a warm 120 or so degrees Farenheit. The temperature shot up to a toasty 165-172 F when I ran Second Life. The computer periodically locks up; I'm not sure if it is completely a heat related problem as I have noticed on the second life blogs some dissatisfaction with the Second Life viewer.
My question to you: given that I need to run Flash, Final Cut Pro, and Second Life what computer should I get?

[Axilon]

Well, i'm probably one of those hard-core gamers everyone is referring to. I have a pretty beefy rig that was built back in December. Blah Blah... how does this work into the Mac forums? Am I a fanboy here to flame? The answer is, a resounding no. The day Vista launched I ordered a MacBook Pro. <grin>
I game pretty avidly with it, well ok, like every night. I spend more time playing games on the MPB at my friends house then using my tower at home. The x1600 256 meg card isn't terrible, it runs WoW very well and runs Battlefield 2142 extremely well. It does what I wanted it for, school and gaming.. and it hasn't let me down in either of those capacities.
When I first tried OS X, I hated it.. I mean it was appalling to me... then I kept trying it (over a month or two at Comp USA.. they would stare as I walk in and just stand at the Mac section for 30 mins every once a while).. now its so simple, i've converted three people.. and my parents want one when they are ready for a new comp. The computers are just, well, incredible. I love the OS now because its fluid.. and yes it has bugs, it locks up, it crashes.. SBBoD!
As for gaming. I find myself more and more inclined to buy a Mac Pro in a year or two then to build a new computer.. for one simple reason, I'm STUCK with the hardware configuration for the most part. I keep dragging myself onto NewEgg and perusing their computer hardware and thinking to myself.. I can save up 800 dollars and get a new processor and video card and have a rig that isn't... seven months old anymore! It wasn't until a few days ago that I realized just how silly that really is.
However; I have found a machine, that if it holds true, I will buy.. that isn't a Mac.. its the fabled EEEPC.. because, well, its not a 2500 dollar investment that I'm scared to carry around campus at night.

To boast a bit, ill say what my rig is and you can see how converted I am.
C2D 6600
2 x 150 Raptors = Raid 0
2 x gigs Corsair Extreme
Ati 1950 XTX
Id trade this machine in for a Mac Pro right now.. if it was monetarily feasible. Minus the hard-drives, of course.
Just my two cents.. The OS is flawless.. and this is coming from a man who is in school for a Computer Networking degree and A+ Cert.. and MSCDT(which I may decline to actually get).
I might spent my time getting Mac Certs.. I have a feeling they will be coming into high demand soon.

[griffman]

"My question to you: given that I need to run Flash, Final Cut Pro, and Second Life what computer should I get?"
Sounds like a Mac Pro would be your ideal machine. However, I'm surprised your MBP does that on Second Life, which has very modest (as I understand it) 3D needs. I run quite a few 3D games on the MBP, and it's never gotten anywhere near that warm (though it will get warm and the fans speed up when gaming; it's the nature of the beast).
-rob.