[MW Forums]

Apple's newest iMacs feature radical changes on the outside but only modest changes inside, so it's no surprise that there's only a solid gain in performance over the last Intel Core 2 Duo-based machines. However, the real eye-opener is to compare these new Intel-based iMacs to their PowerPC-based predecessors. more

[icerabbit]

Thanks for including the G5 score.
It is nice to get a reference to older hardware; as the incremental version changes are always marginal and don't really stand out. It is good they're put to the test ... but the results lack the extra perspective is what I'm trying to say.

[mitchelljd]

what do you expect, it is a mere modest cpu upgrade within a nice new case.
biggest problem here is that the cpu is still the same old laptop chip line that powers the macbooks and mbp's.
The graphics chip sure aint stellar, it's like Apple decided to use a cost effective solution. this is pretty lame as they are saying that macs are getting better with games. not here, these GPU's may be ok for basic use. but hardly for real gaming or video editing.
Apple really needs to give more options. like the opportunity for a person buying one of these models a better graphics chip. i like the idea of the core 2 extreme on the 24" model, but without the ability to get a better graphics chip, it won't hit its real potential.
a move in the right direction design wise apple! but you are really skimping on the options !! and it shows!
give a better graphics chip, and ability to buy a better one. Your Mac Pro towers are just too expensive and there needs to be a midrange option. if not, give more upgrade options on the imacs.

[montgomery_burns]

With every new generation of iMac after the original iMac G5, Apple has shown complete disregard for ease of service. Apple doesn't realize that by making their iMacs and laptops so difficult for technicians to take apart, Apple is also forcing customers to wait longer for repairs to get done. Believe it or not, technicians actually have more than one customer each day. So a technician can't afford to spend all day working on a single iMac while the phone is ringing off the hook and other customers are waiting in line.
If Apple does not start making dramatic improvements in ease of service, then technicians should start taking matters into their own hands. If customers continue to act like ease of service is not their problem, then technicians should make it the customer's problem. If Apple continues to make things miserable for technicians, then technicians should start making things miserable for Mac customers. Technicians should automatically put all iMac repairs on lowest priority regardless of whether that iMac came in first. In fact, they should just let the iMac sit on the shelf for a couple of days out of spite before even looking at it. Another way for repair shops to screw with Apple is to wait for the Mac technician to get swamped with iMac and MacBook Pro repairs, and then load him up with a dozen other repairs that same day. If the Mac tech complains that he can't take any more calls because he is too busy, the call dispatcher should respond with a smartass remark like "But I thought Macs were so easy to work on". Apple authorized repair shops should also complain constantly to Apple Service Provider Support regarding the poor serviceability of iMacs. They should refuse to work on iMacs locally, and just ship all iMacs out to Apple using the slowest shipping method. This provides the added benefit of making the iMac owner wait even longer for repairs. Repair shops should not be afraid to punish iMac owners since Apple has no problem screwing the technicians who support their products. If Apple won't make iMacs easy for technicians to repair, then Apple should repair all iMacs themselves, and customer service be damned.

[mrbach]

I have the upgraded 7600 Nvidia in my 24 inch, so it is strange to see the "fresh" one perform slower in FPS using the 7300.
All I can say, is that it makes me feel good about my purchase in January. I find the graphics amazing on my machine and feel it was a good investment.
Yes, an upgrade path on a graphics card would be nice, but we have wanted this on all in ones since the original iMac. Apple knows this and also knows it would extend the life of a computer.
So my "heavy lifting" graphics system continues to be a PC box.

[MacTel]

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Our build-to-order iMac with the 2.8GHz Core 2 Extreme is on order. Look for those resultsand a review of the updated iMac linesoon.

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Yep, that will be neat to see those numbers. Thanks!

[k95dl01]

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If Apple does not start making dramatic improvements in ease of service, then technicians should start taking matters into their own hands. If customers continue to act like ease of service is not their problem, then technicians should make it the customer's problem. If Apple continues to make things miserable for technicians, then technicians should start making things miserable for Mac customers. Technicians should automatically put all iMac repairs on lowest priority regardless of whether that iMac came in first. In fact, they should just let the iMac sit on the shelf for a couple of days out of spite before even looking at it. Another way for repair shops to screw with Apple is to wait for the Mac technician to get swamped with iMac and MacBook Pro repairs, and then load him up with a dozen other repairs that same day. If the Mac tech complains that he can't take any more calls because he is too busy, the call dispatcher should respond with a smartass remark like "But I thought Macs were so easy to work on". Apple authorized repair shops should also complain constantly to Apple Service Provider Support regarding the poor serviceability of iMacs. They should refuse to work on iMacs locally, and just ship all iMacs out to Apple using the slowest shipping method. This provides the added benefit of making the iMac owner wait even longer for repairs. Repair shops should not be afraid to punish iMac owners since Apple has no problem screwing the technicians who support their products. If Apple won't make iMacs easy for technicians to repair, then Apple should repair all iMacs themselves, and customer service be damned.

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Um, tell us how you really feel.

[palane]

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If Apple does not start making dramatic improvements in ease of service, then technicians should start taking matters into their own hands. If customers continue to act like ease of service is not their problem, then technicians should make it the customer's problem. If Apple continues to make things miserable for technicians, then technicians should start making things miserable for Mac customers. Technicians should automatically put all iMac repairs on lowest priority regardless of whether that iMac came in first. In fact, they should just let the iMac sit on the shelf for a couple of days out of spite before even looking at it. Another way for repair shops to screw with Apple is to wait for the Mac technician to get swamped with iMac and MacBook Pro repairs, and then load him up with a dozen other repairs that same day. If the Mac tech complains that he can't take any more calls because he is too busy, the call dispatcher should respond with a smartass remark like "But I thought Macs were so easy to work on". Apple authorized repair shops should also complain constantly to Apple Service Provider Support regarding the poor serviceability of iMacs. They should refuse to work on iMacs locally, and just ship all iMacs out to Apple using the slowest shipping method. This provides the added benefit of making the iMac owner wait even longer for repairs. Repair shops should not be afraid to punish iMac owners since Apple has no problem screwing the technicians who support their products. If Apple won't make iMacs easy for technicians to repair, then Apple should repair all iMacs themselves, and customer service be damned.

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Punish your customers. Not exactly a sound business model. How about charge for repairs based on the length of time servicing requires? If it takes an extra half-hour to service an iMac, then charge for the amount of time it takes.
If a shop refuses to service Macs or treats its customers poorly, I suggest that they should lose their certification. [Not to mention the customers should punish said shop by refusing to do any business with them.] That way, they'll have all the time in the world to work on PCs.
BB

[Macdev8]

At least your tirade is consistent.
I guess I am lucky that I have personally only had a couple of instances in the past 23 years in which I had to call in a technician to look at my Macs. As a software developer, I offer tech support and if any of my clients had problems with hardware that I couldn't look after in an hour or so, off to a service tech or more lately a call into Apple support. Interesting, even those shops that don't do servicing anymore, I never heard them complain; "just send it back to Apple." And those that did take the job on, "hey, that's how I make a living." They charge their time. How do they get screwed by that?
As for speed of service, even those that have used Apple's pickup/repair/return service, it was basically instantaneous, i.e., a matter of days. And just in case you think of jumping all over that scenario, that is not an issue if one has the proper backup program in place, and if necessary a Mac Mini/monitor available as a loner.
By the way, I thought that Apple did most or all the repairs now anyway. And if service was such an issue as you are attempting to belie us, how is it that Apple is so high on the list (often at the top) of Customer Service and Support surveys?

[OM_user]

While I agree that Apple should make these machines more easily serviced, I think your characterization is a bit over the top. It does not take technicians "all day" to repair an iMac. I've personally witnessed a local repair tech dispatched by Apple to our office to repair a dead iMac G5 iSight, which uses basically the same hard to open case as the Intel iMacs.
He had to replace the mobo and power supply, which is no small task on a machine like this. I saw him pop open the case and start dismantling the machine. I left him to work and about 20-25 minutes later he came by my office to let me know he was finished.
So, it hardly takes these guys all day to repair one. Still, it would be nice if it was easier for the end user to replace parts like the hard drive. I don't care about most of the other stuff. Just let me get at the memory and hard drive and I'd be OK. Most of the other parts are not things I'd want to try replacing unless I knew exactly what I was doing.
The second half of your rant is pretty silly. I assume you're referring to local repair shops. Considering these places are already losing some business to the Apple Stores that have popped up all over the place, it would be incredibly stupid of them to start refusing to repair these Macs just because they take a bit longer to do. It would be a nice way for the techs to lose their jobs, or the shop to go out of business altogether.

[Ponceno]

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Your Mac Pro towers are just too expensive and there needs to be a midrange option. if not, give more upgrade options on the imacs.

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I buy a Dual G5 in 2003 for $3,000; today you can get a Mac Pro with 4 Cores starting at $2,200.
How is that they are expensive?

[joebot]

I'm not really sure what the logic behind "86 frames per second instead of 90! this video card SUCKS!" is exactly, but in my experience it's typical of PC users. They're all balled up about benchmarks and statistics and raw performance in its pure state, and completely miss the bigger picture of stability, thoughtfulness, ease of use, and simple good taste. If you're a hardware hack and hardware for hardware's sake is your gig, that's just fine. But if that's the case with most of the people who make these statements, it isn't coming across in their postings, and I think they're full of crap. Of course performance is important, but I have no doubt that these machines will handle X-Plane with ease. If another video chip would give me an extra 3% frames per second, well I guess I really don't care.
If the new model is half again as fast as a late-model G5, I wonder how much it beats the 800 MHz G4 that I'm about to replace? Whee!

[MacCheetah3]

HI
Experience certainly helps. Apple also offers specific tools for specific tasks on some models i.e. Mac mini.
Stop with the gaming gripes already. Two problems with your complaining...
Good luck getting a high end GPU to not melt that poor iMac.
If they could get a better GPU cooled you'd just complain about the price and the possible audible levels
Gaming is a specific niche and those who truly care about that niche will accept the disadvantages ( price, size, noise from cooling, ... ) that go along with it.

[jdb8167]

From the article with my emphasis:

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The top-of-the-line iMac outperforms the fastest PowerPC G5-based iMac by 43 percent in our Speedmark 4.5 tests.

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How is the 2.4 GHz iMac "top-of-the-line"? There is a 2.8 GHz machine which you specifically note at the end of the article that you haven't tested.
These are the penultimate machines and not top-of-the-line--at least not for the specific subject at hand which is performance.