[NewGuyontheMac]

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Apple underestimated the demand, hackers sprang forth with a solution, Apple, doing the calculus for how their platform is percieved, decided they were better showing their hand and providing the functionality people wanted.

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More like Apple didn't want to spoil the ongoing contest. Do you REALLY think that in a week Apple just threw together BootCamp??? And just so HAPPEN to release it after the "winners" had accepted their prize?
For anyone that laments the back and forth of cracking/update cycle, there's two ways out of it. Never update OR don't use the cracks. Simple.

[michaelb]

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I don't know if Rob can tell you, but I can. No, my Safari doesn't crash. Neither does my iPod app.

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You probably haven't combined them. Safari often crashes while listening to the iPod.
(And when it does so, it loses its place in the podcast, unlike when stopping playback gracefully.)

[MacPro]

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I don't know if Rob can tell you, but I can. No, my Safari doesn't crash. Neither does my iPod app.

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You probably haven't combined them. Safari often crashes while listening to the iPod.
(And when it does so, it loses its place in the podcast, unlike when stopping playback gracefully.)

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Well, um, no, but good try. I'm not saying my iPhone has never crashed, but it has been extremely rare.

[MacPro]

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"I do have a question for Rob or anyone who's installed some of these apps. How much space do they take up?"
As I recall, when I first installed the installer, it told me I had about 125MB available for apps. That figure today is at 95MB with about 20 different things installed.
-rob.

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Thanks, Rob. And one more: am I correct that if I want to back out, a restore will delete everything installed and put my iPhone back to its pre-third party state (apps, prefs, etc. and all)?

[Thrudheim]

Didn't someone from Apple just say that they weren't going to disable third-party apps intentionally?

[trip1ex]

Wow I can't believe some folks say Safari never crashes because I observed that behavior on multiple phones. It quits back to the HOme menu quite often for me. It's very graceful mind you. Same effect as hitting the home button. It happened, for example, at least 3 times today. Maybe there are certain sites that trigger the crashing. I haven't noticed a pattern yet though. The iPod (on shuffle) quit at least twice while surfing (today) too.
I won't even mention the crashes I get with Google Maps.
AS for the 3rd party stuff I just get the feeling that it's more about having all these apps on your Phone (and 'hacking' it) than it is about them actually being that useful or needed.
Now I'm not saying some might not find 'em useful, but just that those folks are the small minority.

[griffman]

Read my article again -- I link to a story (and its update) where Greg Jozwiak first said, basically, 'we like third party devs, but we won't guarantee compatibility with future updates. However, we won't go out of our way to break things.' That sounded good, but then later it was updated to say 'future updates will most likely break third party apps.'
-rob.

[griffman]

"Thanks, Rob. And one more: am I correct that if I want to back out, a restore will delete everything installed and put my iPhone back to its pre-third party state (apps, prefs, etc. and all)?"
Yes, a restore will get it back to factory condition (I did that two or three times while trying to get one app going, early on). Other than having to resync everything, it's only a minor annoyance.
-rob.

[drimwit]

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Apple underestimated the demand, hackers sprang forth with a solution, Apple, doing the calculus for how their platform is percieved, decided they were better showing their hand and providing the functionality people wanted.

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More like Apple didn't want to spoil the ongoing contest. Do you REALLY think that in a week Apple just threw together BootCamp??? And just so HAPPEN to release it after the "winners" had accepted their prize?
For anyone that laments the back and forth of cracking/update cycle, there's two ways out of it. Never update OR don't use the cracks. Simple.

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I never said they developed it in a week, read the post. The question is when would have they released it if not for the hacking. And I wouldn't call them cracks. The APIs ar there to be used, they're just not supported by Apple, probably becuase they're too busy with their own development. I doubt there will be extensive breaking on updates. What are they going to do, disable all the UNIX APIs?

[griffman]

"What kind of support do people expect to get when they install third party applications on the iPhone? How can third party developers support their users when Apple doesn't officially support the developers?"
At this stage of the game, support is minimal: this is clearly not something for those who need much assistance. There are various sources of help, mainly IRC channels and some web pages (linked in the article), but it's spotty at best.
Third party developers could support their products quite easily - they could include a support link in the program's detail screen that either sends an email or takes you to a web page where you could find support.
-rob.

[MacPro]

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I won't even mention the crashes I get with Google Maps.
Now I'm not saying some might not find 'em useful, but just that those folks are the small minority.

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Google Maps has crashed on me more than any other app, but not in the last month.
I think Rob's point is that the whole process is so (apparently, I've not tried it yet) easy, even though it's been only a little more than two months. I could see myself using MobileChat a lot. And the terminal with SSH (to log in to my university server on a few times when I need to).
What I really miss from my Treo 650 is a way to sync with Bluetooth. And (as someone else mentioned) a To Do capability, but for that I'll hold my breath that Apple adds it to the Calendar app.
Oh, and copy/paste. And some kind of TextExpander-type utility. And an encrypted data program for securely storing stuff on my iPhone.
This new Connect application for easier logging in to wireless networks looks intriguing too.

[drimwit]

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Read my article again -- I link to a story (and its update) where Greg Jozwiak first said, basically, 'we like third party devs, but we won't guarantee compatibility with future updates. However, we won't go out of our way to break things.' That sounded good, but then later it was updated to say 'future updates will most likely break third party apps.'
-rob.

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I think they're just covering their arses. Things will break, the later statement just states the obvious. The important point is their intention is not to break. I think things are so fluid in iPhone dev at Apple they probably haven't got any choice but to break things, even if they were offical APIs.

[toosweetnitemare]

hey Rob i have this installed as well on my iphone. i was just wondering how you got the roms for the NES emulator installed on the iphone. where did you put them and under what extension? cause i downloaded them as zip files and i just can figure out how to get them on my iphone from my macbook. thanks in advance if you can help me out there.

[griffman]

You need to install the OpenSSH package, and then you can use Transmit (or any other app that does SFTP) and you can connect to the phone. As to where they go, the NES iPhone page explains the process.
-rob.