[jedi228]

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all I'm asking is that Apple not intentionally prevent what's already been developed from working.

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I understand that you aren't actually against an official SDK, and you were trying to make a point. However, you are asking for too little. Doing nothing is what Apple would like to do anyway. It costs money to add security to lock people out and it costs money to maintain compatibility as the OS evolves. Neither hurting nor helping is the least expensive alternative. It also seems to be the path of least blame if Apple can successfully focus attention elsewhere.
But asking for nothing is not expecting enough of Apple. "Please sir, please kind sir, I beg you to do nothing." Apple controls the iPhone and no other 3rd party can compensate if Apple chooses not to spend resources on opening up the iPhone. Even 3rd parties with deep pockets are immobilized if Apple does nothing.

[griffman]

Well, my referenced first post quite directly asked for an SDK, which is still the best long term solution. I guess I shouldn't have chosen to open this with the fictitious letter to Apple /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Basically, what I'm saying is: what's developed works great, Apple please don't break it on purpose and make it impossible to fix, and yes, get an official SDK out so we can stop worrying about such things.
My only real concern about a true SDK is that it wouldn't be quite as slick as the package management system that's been developed independently; it really is an amazingly well done implementation.
-rob.

[griffman]

You have to manually create the proper folders.
-rob.

[NewGuyontheMac]

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make it impossible to fix,

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I find it hard to believe they could EVER make it impossible to fix. Maybe really hard and maybe it'll take a few weeks, but the PSP is supposed to be closed, too, and that keeps getting broken as well. EVER

[bynkii]

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Once upon a time, Rob Griffiths asked Apple to involve itself more with third-party development for the iPhone. Now he just wants Apple to leave the third-party developers to their own devices. <a href="http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2007/09/iphoneapps/index.php">[more]</a>

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It's an embedded device, not a general purpose computer. That means updating the OS/firmware safely and reliably trumps all. The fact that your phone may have unsupported third party mods should not even BEGIN to factor into that equation. What this is saying is "I know you don't support third party applications, but I want you to spend money and time test your updates with them so that you don't break them". That's called supporting third party apps.

[griffman]

That's not at all what I'm saying, John. I just don't want Apple to break them on purpose (i.e. iTunes 7.4.1, 7.4.2 and free ringtones). I don't care if things break accidentally, and I fully expect that they will. I do not expect Apple to spend time and money testing to insure things don't break. But similarly, I do not expect them to spend time and money making sure they do break.
-rob.

[Dan Frakes]

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Hey Rob, I have a Treo and one of things I miss the most is the To-Do list and a little app called Handy Shopper, which made errands and shopping easy. I scanned the list of third party apps but did not see a To-Do function. I miss the alarms for To-Dos too, and how you could snooze them. Any 3rd party solution for that?

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There's one called, oddly enough, MobileToDoList /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It's available via Installer.

[Dan Frakes]

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Er I think you're overestimating the usefulness of the 3rd party software so far.

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If third-party software is actually useful to him, he's not overestimating that usefulness /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Personally, I use Connect, iLight (seriously), RSS, ToDoList, and VNotes on a regular basis. I also use weDict.

[trip1ex]

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Er I think you're overestimating the usefulness of the 3rd party software so far.

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If third-party software is actually useful to him, he's not overestimating that usefulness /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Well I'm sure the third-party software was useful to him for writing the article. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Anyway I don't see most of the iPhone market being interested in this. Treo market this ain't. That's where my over-estimation comment comes from especially at this point in time.

[griffman]

To you it's not the Treo market. To everyone who owned a Treo, is tempted by the iPhone but has been held back by the lack of third party applications, it's definitely of interest. Two friends of mine have purchased iPhones recently, and both did so only because the third party apps are out there.
For those not interested, they don't even need to know or care about such things. But for those coming from more "open" devices, the ability to run true third party apps on the iPhone will be of great interest.
-rob.

[drimwit]

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It's an embedded device, not a general purpose computer. That means updating the OS/firmware safely and reliably trumps all.

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What a load. It's a computer. My Nokia is a computer. My microwave oven is a computer. So is my Mac. They all have input devices, output devices, firmware and sometimes third party software. The principles for maintaining all of them are the same. Firmware is just low-level system software, one step removed from the hardware. The iPhone runs most of its software off of the flash disk, which is a regular file system, and is being updated with third party apps. If it all goes wrong you can reset it, just like re-installing the system on your laptop. It makes absolutely no difference and doesn't justify restricting the device.

[drimwit]

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To you it's not the Treo market. To everyone who owned a Treo, is tempted by the iPhone but has been held back by the lack of third party applications, it's definitely of interest. Two friends of mine have purchased iPhones recently, and both did so only because the third party apps are out there.
For those not interested, they don't even need to know or care about such things. But for those coming from more "open" devices, the ability to run true third party apps on the iPhone will be of great interest.
-rob.

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I unserstand why Apple does it, they actively market to users who don't know and don't care, they just want things to work, but Apple has also appealed to the nerd with taste, providing performance with style. These are the people who are clamouring for third party apps, unlocking and generally no restrictions, becuase minus the corporate cabal, open is the right way to go.

[bynkii]

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It's an embedded device, not a general purpose computer. That means updating the OS/firmware safely and reliably trumps all.

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What a load. It's a computer. My Nokia is a computer. My microwave oven is a computer. So is my Mac. They all have input devices, output devices, firmware and sometimes third party software. The principles for maintaining all of them are the same. Firmware is just low-level system software, one step removed from the hardware. The iPhone runs most of its software off of the flash disk, which is a regular file system, and is being updated with third party apps. If it all goes wrong you can reset it, just like re-installing the system on your laptop. It makes absolutely no difference and doesn't justify restricting the device.

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Ah, so if all computers are exactly the same, please, do tell us the third party mods you have for your car's various computers? I imagine playing Doom on your microwave is teh bombz0r too. Of course, you can use your Nokia as part of an Apache cluster, and it has totally AWESOME WebDAV features, right?
Yeah...see, a computer is not a computer is not a computer.

[bynkii]

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That's not at all what I'm saying, John. I just don't want Apple to break them on purpose (i.e. iTunes 7.4.1, 7.4.2 and free ringtones). I don't care if things break accidentally, and I fully expect that they will. I do not expect Apple to spend time and money testing to insure things don't break. But similarly, I do not expect them to spend time and money making sure they do break.
-rob.

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What do you define as "accidently"? How do you determine this? Keeping in mind that ringtones are a special, bizarre, kinda stupid case due to the music companies, exactly how do you determine when an update breaks an application "accidently" vs. "on purpose".