[Lancetx]

I just hope you all understand that 98.9% of iPhone buyers don't give a rip about hacking their phones, much less installing what are to this point some rather lame third party apps. You're doing nothing more than spitting in the wind here...

[sparks]

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Lest we forget, the original iPhone software was discovered by security researchers to run all of its applications with root privileges, which is, to put it mildly, a security hole big enough to sail the QE2 through flanked by a couple of aircraft carriers. By encrypting the firmware, Apple has made the phone a much safer device. Yes, this strategy breaks all the clever third-party applications that folk have developed in the last few months, but that is a side-effect.
Personally, I dont want my iPhone easily rooted by a hacker, and if the encrypted firmware makes that less likely, Im willing to accept the loss of third-party apps for the moment.

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Hey Lymand, FYI, those apps still run as root under 1.1.1, so the risk is still there if not more so because now you can't even remove apps you don't want to use and worse, you'll have no way to know if you've been rooted. Locking down the phone by encrypting the firmware does NOTHING to protect the firmware once it's on the phone unencrypted. All Apple changed in 1.1.1 is encrypt the firmware image and changed the restore procedure from a push to a pull. Neither of those things will give the type of protection you describe.

[griffman]

"I just hope you all understand that 98.9% of iPhone buyers don't give a rip about hacking their phones, much less installing what are to this point some rather lame third party apps. You're doing nothing more than spitting in the wind here... "
1.1% of 10 million target iPhone sales is an additional millionish iPhones, which is another $400 million to Apple, along with whatever take of $60 million a month they get from AT&T. And that's if 1.1% is correct; based on the poll results I linked to, and the commentary here, I expect the actual figure is higher. Why walk away from such meaningful revenue?
And for the 98.9% (or whatever) that don't care about such things, that's fine: they don't need to care. But for those who do want to use their phones to their full potential (really, is recording voice notes and using iChat "out there" in terms of desired uses for a communications device?), it would be very nice if we at least had the capability to do so.
-rob.

[Chris Breen]

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I just hope you all understand that 98.9% of iPhone buyers don't give a rip about hacking their phones, much less installing what are to this point some rather lame third party apps.

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So you consider an IM client a lame third party app? A dictionary? Thesaurus? GPS-like client? Ringtone installer? Functional NES emulator? Screen capture utility?
All lame?
Really?
Have you ever actually used an iPhone with these applications installed?
Sir, you know not of what you speak.

[Steve_S]

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Ive chosen not to upgrade because I value the productivity, entertainment, and customization abilities offered by the third-party applications Ive added to my iPhone.

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For whatever your reason, the position you are taking seems a little short sighted. Yes, some of your hacks will be disabled, at least temporarily. However, you probably don't have visibility to the depth of the updates. It's more than just a wifi store. I've noticed improved stability in existing apps, particularly Safari. So, I'm not sure I even agree with your "productivity" reason. In any case, for a completely new platform, taking the position to stay on the 1.0 (or 1.02) version will surely limit your use of the product, especially as future updates come down the road.

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What I dont understand is that Apple apparently doesnt see any upside to allowing third party applications on the iPhone.

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I don't know if that's a fair assessment. More likely, I think Apple realizes this is a very new platform, despite the familiar OS X name. I think Apple realizes that stability is a real problem for other platforms. I've witnessed stability issues with both Palm and Windows Mobile devices. I think Apple realizes it will probably take a year or so just to get its own applications in good working order. Realistically, I'd expect Apple to build a few more applications, develop solid interface guidelines and eventually develop an SDK - in that order.
Like you, I'd be disappointed if Apple didn't eventually open the platform to 3rd parties. Where we differ is our expectations of when that should happen. I think you're aware that it takes a very significant effort to provide an SDK, right? I think you're also aware that the iPhone platform is still very immature. I'm seeing a lot of impatience out there. People need to relax a bit, let this play out over the next year or two and see what happens. Yes, Apple is probably losing out on developer efforts initially. However, I think it's better for Apple to do it right the first time. 3rd party developers shouldn't mind that Apple is building a very large installed base for their products in the mean time.

[Craig_A]

Hey, Rob! I'd be happy to concoct an alternate scenario. It assumes more an overextended development team than that Apple is a bunch of morons. I suppose nobody knows that for sure. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
1) The team responsible for writing and debugging said SDK (the Developer Tools group) got called back to Cupertino to work on their other hobby project (that would be Leopard /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ).
2) The embedded OS X firmware people must have already spec'd the first couple of updates for the iPhone by the time of initial release, or they wouldn't have had them finished by now.
3) That same crew was also doing the firmware for the iPod touch, so the last thing they wanted was for the two versions to develop a wide separation. Although I can easily imagine the team meetings on the iPod ("Hey, what can we cut on regression testing so this gets out on time? Mail? Cool.")
4) Dashcode, which is the likeliest bet for an iPhone/TouchPod development tool, recently expired in public beta but should be in the new version of Xcode tools.
5) There may yet be another addition to the family, maybe in January, and they're trying to protect another one of them trade secret thingies. Who knows?
6) No doubt AT&T griped long and hard about preventing unlocking, and have the contract lawyers (plus a revenue stream to Apple) to back it up.
My conclusion: the unlocking issue will continue to be a fight (because of the AT&T contract) but the SDK will arrive when the tools are ready to support it. My prediction is that it will be released for WWDC 2008, if for no other reason than they will need something to talk about then, and it's not likely to be 10.6. I think that conference will focus heavily on iPhone/TouchPod/whatever application development, using an enhanced version of Dashcode.
Anyway, just a set of reasonable wild guesses, I think.

[sdf]

Sooner or later, an exploit will be found that can completely violate your iPhone. The security fix will come only to those running newer software. So you really have a very simple choice: Give up the third party applications now, or give them up later. Personally, I think it'd probably better to not get used to relying on them.

[lymond]

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Hey Lymand, FYI, those apps still run as root under 1.1.1, so the risk is still there if not more so because now you can't even remove apps you don't want to use and worse, you'll have no way to know if you've been rooted. Locking down the phone by encrypting the firmware does NOTHING to protect the firmware once it's on the phone unencrypted. All Apple changed in 1.1.1 is encrypt the firmware image and changed the restore procedure from a push to a pull. Neither of those things will give the type of protection you describe.

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First you gotta get the exploit on the phone. Apple's update has made that harder. That's my point.
Oh, and why should I value your opinion when you can't even spell my name? /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Swift2001]

Well, just one thing about that poll: like 99% of polls you see on the Internet, it's invalid because it's self-selecting. I'd be very surprised in that big a percentage of people disapprove of Apple disallowing 3rd party apps. The great majority aren't even aware of the whole thing.
I don't disagree with anything Rob says, for someone who can hack the phone as well as he can. Most can't, or don't want to bother with it, and they're most likely delighted with the new update, because they didn't hack it in the first place.

[chrisgalen]

You know I waited years for a decent hand-held device to come out. I figured it would come from Apple. The Palm weird lettering is sooo cumbersome. The Windows CE devices just required all these levels of movement through the software just to do the simplest thing not to mention the stylus poking...uggh! Then along comes the iPhone and Apple solved the most glaring problem...the interface. We were just about to plop down and buy about a dozen of the iPhones when we discovered "What no message client?" No iChat? I took a look at the browser based one and they're shadows of what iChat, MSN messenger and Yahoo Messenger programs can do. We restrict texting on the company phones because it was running into too much money. Still I waited, figured Apple would do something about it, then somebody else did something about it and made a IM client. "Ok, let's get them". "What, Apple's about to nix all 3rd party apps?". Now We're back we're we were a year ago. A year wasted. My level of frustration is nothing compared to my boss'. He's been using Macs from day one in 1984 and he's soo frustrated with Apple that he's told me to get PC's in the next round of purchases. Being that our main program, Media Composer, runs on both. I think it's the hubris that really got him and I. I suppose they're are a bunch of Apple people feeling the same way we are but what ya gonna do? I guess we're getting Blackberries.
Oh, by the way....nothing to do with this but I've been using the Netscape Navigator 9 and wow...it's seems really slick. I typed this post using it.

[icerabbit]

Next up:
"Citing security and stability reasons, Apple and ATT prevent iPhones - which do not have the latest firmware installed - from accessing wireless services."
Could happen.
I agree with the general sentiment and points posted.
Personally, I know I'm not buying an iPhone until 3rd parties applications are officially supported, till the tie-in with ATT is over and some of other the current restrictions (see common wish & bug lists) are removed. I could care less about the iTunes Wi-Fi store and the ringtone scam. The plausible iPhone store won't see any sales from me either. If Apple won't support open and 3rd party apps on the iPhone, then it's too bad for Apple. I won't buy into buying apps just like with iPod games. New iPhone ... have to buy that app again.
Hopefuly the Nokia open source N series can lead the way.

[Uncommon]

I agree completely - just this morning I used Apple's iPhone feedback form to tell them I'm not upgrading if it means losing my custom ringtones. Stability has not been much of an issue on my iPhone, and I don't care about accessing the iTunes Store (I mostly listen to podcasts these days). So I'll stick with what works.

[MCJ]

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1.1% of 10 million target iPhone sales is an additional millionish iPhones, which is another $400 million to Apple, along with whatever take of $60 million a month they get from AT&T.

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It would actually equate to 110000.

[jmelrose]

Y'know, there is a precedent for a hardware company locking out 3rd party software development and calling it a warranty-voider if the end-user alters the hardware or software to suit their own needs:
It's called a gaming console.
Sure, there ARE hacks that allow emulators, or other such software. Hell, the UNIX OS on Xbox is possible. But Xbox Live isn't available on hacked XBoxes. And probably there are some people out there unhappy that those systems aren't wide open for anyone to develop for them. Anyone running 3rd party non-Nintendo-licensed Game Boy games much lately? Seen a lot of 3rd party Wii software? PS2 games? etc etc. I didn't think so. The major manufacturers license the ability to develop for their systems, and they have been doing it for a long long time without the kind of outrage being vented on here.
Bottom line, you bought a product that is a closed system. It was never advertised as being open for any 3rd party developers aside from Web apps, and as someone who gladly plunked down $600 for its as-is functionality, well, I just can't feel sorry for those who want more. As many have pointed out, there are many options on the smartphone market. Enjoy them.
I don't agree that the 3rd party apps are lame. Some seem pretty cool. However, I do agree that 99% of the iPhone buyers don't give a rip about hacking their phones. I also think Apple will, eventually, make apps available on the iPhone but at this time it isn't in their plan. I can wait. Up until 3 months ago, my phone didn't do a LOT of the things my iPhone can.
Anyway, these kinds of conversations always entertain me in that they're like "Crossfire" used to be. There's no dialog, no useful ideas. Just a thread full of "I'm right and you're wrong" opinions and bitterness. Clearly that's the iPhone's biggest gift to us all: the ability to be spiteful from just about anyplace service by an EDGE network. Hallelujah.