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iPhone lawsuit seeks over $1 billion in damages

#71 User is offline   CaptVole Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:10 AM

Quote:

Quote:

No-one ever said you could... Why do you feel entitled to it?
You have to BUY your ringtones. That was clear from the start.


Why do I have to buy ringtones without an option to use music I wrote myself, while my wife on the same family plan I'm on, with a FREE phone, can use whatever music she wants? If that sounds okay and fair to you then I want some of whatever you're smoking.
I see nothing frivolous about this suit.
We could make a thousand analogies that aren't the same, like the car oil filter analogy above but it won't change the facts of this case. You could be upset (thanks, lame Maccentral censor that won't let me use a common word here..) that Honda won't let you use a Toyota oil filter on your Civic, but AT LEAST HONDA WON'T REMOVE THE STEERING COLUMN from your Honda when you bring it in for service with your Toyota oil filter attached. That's what Apple has done here. They set out to nail people for being creative because they couldn't get a revenue stream out of their creativity so they intentionally broke their hardware. It's just plain wrong.


1) Verizon (or maybe Motorola) will not let you install custom self-made ringtones on certain models of the RAZR. You have to buy popular music from them. This is from experience. Therefore we are talking about an industry-wide problem that isn't going to be solved by a lawsuit singling out one company and provider with a ridiculous penalty amount. If these lawyers weren't only interested in some publicity at the expense of the most technologically visible company (at the moment), we actually might see this problem solved. Unfortunately we are living in a time where the government (and the citizens) are not interested in holding companies to some sort of common standard when it comes to public services, maybe in a few years.
2) Maybe a Honda dealer won't remove the steering column when they see a Toyota filter wedged into their engine but they would likely revoke the warranty on the engine at the least. Try hacking the car's software and see how that goes over. They would restore the car's computer to company specs at best. What if your hack did something that shut the engine off after they restored the software. What are they supposed to do then? Replace the computer for free?
3) Creativity is great in lots of ways, however criminals can be very creative too, but that's not something a victim would consider as they are being robbed or assaulted. To continue business Apple (and all other profit companies) has to maximize the revenue stream. iPhone hacks threaten to create a situation where a large number of people could avoid AT&T but still use the device. I don't have an iPhone specifically because of AT&T. Regardless of the money Apple makes from AT&T, if Apple didn't aggressively uphold the user agreement, they would probably be in violation of their agreement with AT&T and in jeopardy of a more realistic (and winnable) lawsuit from AT&T!
Leonardo Da Vinci was a creative person, but he was too creative with his secret paint formulations and couple of his paintings cracked badly within a few years while his contemporaries' paintings last without cracking. A creative person takes chances, however.... hanging off the Empire State Building's observation deck could be a creative expression in the hands of certain individuals but the building isn't going to take down the fence and find out by chance.
Once you get creative with any device made by someone else beyond their stated intent of the device, you gain full responsibility for that device and they are free of it. It becomes your artwork so to speak. Why should anyone but yourself be responsible for your creativity?
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#72 User is online   jonespita Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:15 AM

Someone, anyone, prove it was malicious. Someone, anyone prove the profit Apple makes off of this thing. No one can, it is all speculation. Apple should just cease making the iPhone, refund all of the money and scrap the line.
That wouldn't work, because someone would sue for 'loss of technological fix' or 'loss of right to use of a phone I wasn't happy with.'
Get over it, move on, you bricked it, you bought it.
Oh, by the way, they just released the software fix to 'unbrick' the 1.1.1. Oh my, better sue Apple for what might happen if you install that software, and Apple has to fix the phone with a software fix again.
Pita
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#73 User is offline   lkmd Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:21 AM

I think we should sue in a class action suit against these two individuals for being really stupid. I tried to hack my Sony tv to do what my Hitachi does. It caught fire and now doesnt work. They didnt tell it wouldnt work like the Hitachi. I think thats worth 100 million. lkmd
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#74 User is offline   hayesk Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:23 AM

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At least the Macs can install linux and it's software if you want.


True, but if you hack the EFI firmware in a Mac to do something, and the next Apple firmware update breaks your Mac because it expected the original firmware to be there, Apple won't (and shouldn't) support you.
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#75 User is offline   Pennywigeon Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 10:11 AM

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Apple & AT&T is wrong on this. I hope they lose BIG! They are doing what MS does. No, they are worse. Manufacturers may not be able to install linux under their MS contracts (probably can nowadays) but if I install it, that's MY RIGHT. Just like you should be able to install whatever you want on the iPhone. It's yours! not apples, not AT&Ts (especially since they are not subsidized)
What if GM said they're car will only run on BP gas, but you want to use Marathon because you feel it's better gas, your car works just fine and then one day over OnStar they send out an update to not allow any other brand but they one they require! Intentionally Broken on purpose AFTER it worked just fine. This is exactly what apple is doing.
At least the Macs can install linux and it's software if you want.


Reality check here. Ever heard the term PROPRIETARY?
If we use your logic then lets sue Microsoft for $600 BILLION dollars!
Why? Simple. HALO 3 is EXCLUSIVE for the XBOX 360. It is not available for Wii nor PS3.
Oh wait lets further use that logic. I buy an XBOX 360. I buy a PLAYSTATION 3 Game.
I should be able to sue Microsoft because that stupid XBOX 360 won't play my Playstation 3 games!
This is a direct violation of my consumer RIGHTS!. I OWN THE XBOX. I OWN THE PS3 GAME. THEY SHOULD WORK!
Idiots.
It is sad when you think sueing for your own stupidity and selfishness is a viable way to earn a living.
Lets sue WALMART for not excepting TARGET CHARGE cards! Yeah!
Lets SUE Direct TV for not working on DISH NETWORK EQUIPMENT! Yeah!
Lets FORD for using a transmission that uses a DIFFERENT transmission fluid than other car manufacturers! Yeah.
Lets Sue Nokia because their phone charger won't charge my LG phone! Yeah!
Lets sue TV manufacturers for not making all TVs compatible with every know connection (coaxil, RCA, Svideo, HDIM) Yeah!
WHy not sue Hair dryer manufacturers for making it were if you use one in the SHOWER it could KILL YOU! OMG!!!! major lawsuit here! I won THe SHower. I own the water. I own the hairdryer. By golly they should all be compatible!
I should be able to watch TV under water with ANY TV available for purchase! Yeah!
Why can't I use my Charcoal Grill in the kitchen! THose darn fumes kill people! That is it lets sue for making charcoal that is incompatible with indoor usage!
Lets sue clothing manufacturers because not everything is available in one size fits all!
Lets sue Tire manufacturers every time we have a flat! Yeah! Who cares if I ran over a box of nails.
Let us sue Weapons manufactuerers for violating our Consitutional rights!. Yeah! We ahve the right to bear arms so Why can't I go to Wal Mart and By a nuclear weapon! That is an insult! yarggh!
Lets sue Apple because you CANNOT install OSX on a Dell or other PC that does not have the EFI firmware and intel CHipsets installed! Yeah! I should be able to run OSX on my Atari 2600 because by golly I WON IT AND IT SHOULD RUN ANYTHING!
Lets sue all car manufacturers becuase they make EXCLUSIVE MODELS! Yeah!
I don't want a FORD mustang. I want a NISSAN mustang. I want a Honda Corvette, A Jeep Escalade, and a Volkswagon Maserati. It is sooooo unfair that someone would make a product and lock you into one company. Boo Hoo hooo.

Wake up losers. It is called BUSINESS. It happens everyday. Just because you are some cheap skate who wants to not spend $.99 on a ring tone or another that is too cheap to buy a pay as you go phone overseas doesn't entitle you to Billions of dollars.
When did society start awarding people for stupidity. ALL HAIL THE MOVIE JACK-ASS! That is your future.
Every iPhone consumer KNEW in ADVANCE that they would be tied to AT&T. THEY VOLUNTARILY AGREED TO IT. They were also notified that that ANY SOFTWARE MODIFICATIONS would VOID THE WARRANTY. Yet they still VOLUNTARILY hacked their phone (software modifications) and VOLUNTARILY applied the Update. How much more STUPID can one idiot be?
Look! I bought a gun. I loaded it with bullets. I pointed it at my foot and pulled the trigger! YEAH!
Let me sue the gun manufacturer for $2.6 Billion dollars for designing something that could cause me harm or even KILL me!
In truth it comes down to this. Anyone whining over this is looking for an exuse to not look like a complete idiot.
It is hard to run from embarrassment. Suck it up. You are an idiot. Now go make some toast in the bathtub.

I should be able to sue people for stupidity.
"Judge, they have wasted my time. They cannot use simple things that are taught in public school, such as READING an agreement before agreeing to it. I would like them to pay me $10 for every time they do something idiotic for the rest of their lives."
Trillions would trickle in daily.

Oh and to those that "hacked their phones using exploits to switch carriers." This proves you are a liar so why bother arguing. You lied in your agreement. You are lying about everything.

IBRICKER 2.0 is available now for any idiot that is working on a matching set of bricks.
I hear their priority is getting a NES emulator on the iPhone.
NES Emulator > Warranty and Functionality.

LOL [shaking heads] idiots......
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#76 User is offline   daneb Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 10:22 AM

Nevermind. They'll settle out of court for a large sum, I'm sure. These people don't really care about the iPhone or Apple, they just want a chunk of money.
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#77 User is offline   bawilliamson Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 11:01 AM

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Monopolistic behavior is wrong. So when a company gets to be big they can just do what they want? Trample on the public? Start dictating terms? I don't think so.
Vivre La Revolution.


Methinks you should look up the word monopoly in the dictionary. Apple is not a monopoly. Never has been, never will be. Why? BECAUSE YOU HAVE A CHOICE to use other computer and mobile phone products and software. Apple, however, IS a mostly closed system in that it controls hardware and OS software integration for all of its products. This is probably one of the reasons they could come up with an iPhone in the first place. It just might be why many Apple customers get rather smug, because Apple's products are actually useful to them and the design is also a pleasure to experience. Can Apple always keep improving? Of course! But to hear your adolescent whining about "revolution" is pretty funny when we're talking about a company such as Apple who actually HAS started more revolutions than we often give them credit for.
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#78 User is offline   Chris Breen Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 11:12 AM

I understand that this is an emotional subject for some, but please try to keep it civil. Remarks that denigrate one coutry/nation/continent are not helpful.

#79 User is offline   robb1068 Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 11:23 AM

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Go ahead call us stupid all you like.


OK, you're stupid. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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#80 User is offline   Kurtster Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 11:59 AM

I may be "stupid" to you but at least I strive to do better than a dog bark, a duck and a "boing" sound for my ringtones.
Quote:

Nevermind. They'll settle out of court for a large sum, I'm sure. These people don't really care about the iPhone or Apple, they just want a chunk of money.


I don't want a large chunk of money...I want to be able to use my own music as a ringtone, same as my wife does on the same plan with a different phone.
Allow me to clarify for those who continue to call me "stupid" for supporting this suit:
There are three fundamental issues at at hand here:
1.) "Hacking" the SIM to use other carriers than AT&T
2.) Installing third party apps
3.) Using one's own music as a ringtone
I think #1 is NOT ok. Apple has a right to protect their relationship with AT&T. The other carriers passed on the deal so too bad for them.
I don't need #2 but I see why people might want that. I'm in the middle on this and if a court decides Apple needs to open the iPhone to developers (which I seriously doubt they will), I'm okay with that. More fun for everyone. If not, I'll hold out for Apple to eventually release an SDK.
I'm 100% behind issue 3. Whoever said this is like demanding a CD for free after buying the LP is misinformed or doesn't get it. Using that analogy would mean you woudn't have a right to rip a CD and put it on your iPod, and you'd have to buy everything all over again from the iTunes music store to adhere to copyright law...that just isn't so and no amount of repeating it here will make that the reality.
I just got my iPhone 2 weeks ago. My wife got a Nokia phone as part of our new AT&T family plan. Her phone is capable of using music I've written as a ringtone, my iPhone isn't. Her phone can do Bluetooth file transfers, my iPhone can't. Since Apple broke Ambrosia's iToner application AND denied me the ability to use my own music as a ringtone, they have essentially told me to use what iTunes shovels as ringtones or deal with it. They don't even offer me a means to pay a dollar for the PROCESS of putting my own music on the phone as a ringtone, they simply shut me out completely. On that premise alone I hope that this lawsuit is able to open up the ringtone dilemma for everyone. I dont' want money, I want my own music to use as ringtones. This lawsuit may be a means to achieve that.
Nobody can prove at this point that Apple's move was malicious but I'm confident that under full disclosure they will be shown to have done so. Everything seems to point that direction, but we'll have to see how it plays out in court to know for sure.
For those arguing that courts don't prove anything, I can't help you. You either believe in our judicial system or you don't. This is not the forum to discuss the merits or justice of our legal system.
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#81 User is offline   greekdish Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 12:29 PM

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Buy different phone, it's that easy? You really don't get it do you. Go ahead call us stupid all you like. if I can get in on this suit I will.
Apple maliciously and intentionally with pre-mediation BROKE THEIR OWN CUSTOMER'S $600 (or $400) piece of hardware. They can claim that hackers damaged the software but I'm betting the court will prove that they sought to intentionally cripple phones. You should be outraged at Apple, not calling their customers stupid.
I didn't hack my phone, but to tell me that I should have to give up entirely on the cool features Apple included int he iPhone simply because I want to use MY OWN music as a ringtone on my phone is completely absurd.
Everyone hates our litigous society until they need representation. Then it suddenly becomes important for them. This is a perfectly valid case and they've [censored] off lifelong customers like me in the perocess.
Name call all you want but your self-righteous diatribe isn't going to matter much when this gets to court.


Yes Kurtster...its that easy. Your analogy is so flawed, and whats wrong with so many people in this world. First off...you have to PROVE that Apple "maliciously and intentionally" broke your iPhone....well, when they WARN the dumb people that hacked iphones might get bricked, woops, there goes that argument. How can it be "malicious" if they warned people??
Also, yes, you own the iPhone, but you DONT own the software that runs it. You LICENSE it. You own a PC or Mac, but you DONT own the software, you LICENSE it. Get a clue dude. And you didnt give up any cool features....the cool features are whatever Apple allows onto the phone when they sell it. Thats like complaining when you cant install a rocket engine on your new car without voiding your warranty, or a new engine, or complaining your lowrider Jap car cant go on dirt roads (offroading).
You dont seem very mature. And its one thing to litigate, and sue someone for not providing you with a service they PROMISED....but when did Apple promise you the ability to use the iPhone on different carriers or install 3rd party software?? And when did Apple promise you billions of dollars?? Most people would just want their iPhone replaced....but to sue for billions of dollars is just greedy and stupid. No, sorry, I disagree completely....I dont hate litigous society until I need representation, because I would never sue someone for my stupidity....i.e., spilling coffee on myself and crying that the coffee is too hot. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
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#82 User is offline   Gatesbasher Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 12:29 PM

Quote:

I'm 100% behind issue 3. Whoever said this is like demanding a CD for free after buying the LP is misinformed or doesn't get it. Using that analogy would mean you woudn't have a right to rip a CD and put it on your iPod, and you'd have to buy everything all over again from the iTunes music store to adhere to copyright law...that just isn't so and no amount of repeating it here will make that the reality.


I swore I would never post to this forum again, but I just can't restrain myself from wondering how many hundred thousand times people like this have to be told that it's the RIAA not Apple that is responsible for you having to pay again for the "new public performance" that is a ringtone. There was even a very lengthy article: http://www.macworld....tones/index.php in this very magazine laying the whole thing out. Read it! And yes, the record labels do consider ripping your cds to your iPod "theft," they just haven't prosecuted anybody for it (yet.)
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#83 User is offline   MacCheetah3 Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 12:36 PM

Hi
I understand that you may want it and that many other phones do have such a capability but that doesn't change the fact that is what Apple chose to do and it was never a hidden or changed feature. Either deal with not having that ability but having many others or change phones. No phone is perfect and a person will always need to weigh the pros and cons...On any product. Point being...It is by no means a grounds to do anything more than cry about it. If one feels that they have some kind of right to get financial gain or that Apple owes them such a feature because competition has it is delusional.
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#84 User is offline   Pennywigeon Icon

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 12:58 PM

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I may be "stupid" to you but at least I strive to do better than a dog bark, a duck and a "boing" sound for my ringtones.


$0.99 = Custom ringtone
We are talking 1 dollar. That is cheaper than a 20oz Coke.
Now really. You paid $599 for a phone but you are to cheap to pay $0.99 for a custom ringtone.
[shaking head]
This logic escapes me........
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