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Inside Leopard: Time Machine

#43 User is offline   tatilsever Icon

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 04:34 PM

Quote:

Now, say you have created a file (call it mywork) and made changes over 3 hours and then deleted it. Thus you end up in TM with the equivalent of 3 files in TM, mywork(1), mywork(2) and mywork(3).
Now, however, we reach the point where the hourlies are rolled up. What happens when you go back in TM to that day?
1) TM keeps ALL versions of the file and you see mywork(1), mywork(2) and mywork(3) in your folder.
2) TM keeps the last version of any file that ever existed in any hourly that day and thus only mywork(3) shows up on that day (named, of course, just mywork).
3) TM removes any file that does not exist in the final hourly for a given day. Thus, when you go back there is no file there.


My guess is item 2. Anybody who can actually test this?
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#44 User is offline   jehrler_MW Icon

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 04:39 PM

I hope it is number 2 as that seems the best compromise between space and completeness. It would seem that number 3 would be a real disappointment for anyone who saw the demos with the files magically reappearing.
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#45 User is offline   edmetric Icon

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 05:32 PM

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the next time you connect the drive, Time Machine will detect it and back up automatically.


Automatic connect detection, automatic first backup, automatic hourly backup, automatic stop/delete when drive is full. Apple elegant. From the variety of questions being asked, I'd say there are a lot of non-Apple elegant backup styles being used. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Mr. griffman reported the original drive had 30GB but the backup became 65GB in a few weeks. Any word on how much extra load this automatic background work placed on the CPU? How much resident memory does TM keep in RAM while working? What can we expect for reduced access to the CPU, extra heat removal needed, and RAM impact on apps?
The problem as I see it for me is I only have one firewire port. That port would have to be used for an always connected backup drive, since firewire is preferred by me, if I were to depend on Time Machine all the time. Of course, if I don't use TM, it is not an issue. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
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#46 User is offline   griffman Icon

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 05:48 PM

Yes. From Apple's Time Machine page:
"Time Machine saves the hourly backups for the past 24 hours, daily backups for the past month, and weekly backups for everything older than a month."
I confirmed with Apple today that, even if you have drive space, you will only have 24 hours' worth of hourly backups.
-rob.

#47 User is offline   luckylindy Icon

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 06:44 PM

1. Can TM find a project folder rather than a file within it? If I dumped a project accidentally, I don't want to have to remember one of the file names and/or just retrieve one of perhaps dozens of related/desired files; I want the whole enchilada.
2. I have, in effect, 3 external dives attached to my MacBook: a USB pocket drive that only holds my iTunes library; and a Firewire drive with two partitions. I don't want to have TM b/u the Firewire partitions. Can I tell it not to?
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#48 User is offline   griffman Icon

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 07:00 PM

1) TM backups are simply HFS+ disks. So if you have a folder in the Finder, you have a folder in TM, and can easily restore the whole thing, or just files from within it.
2) Yes.
-rob.

#49 User is offline   sjk Icon

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 09:16 PM

Quote:

Time Machine backs up files, not volumes per se.


But presumably it can back up files from multiple volumes, e.g. boot and a separate /Users? If not, I'd have to undo the current 3-volume setup on my iMac if I intend to use TM.
Wondering about this comment in your article:
Holding down the Control key and clicking the Time Machine icon in the Dock creates a new incremental backup, if you just cant wait for the automatic backup to take place.
Control-click on a Dock icon is usually equivalent to a right-click which usually displays a context menu. Is control-click on TM's Dock icon an exception to that or did you maybe mean option-click?
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#50 User is offline   labman Icon

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 10:05 PM

How does it handle windows through VMWare or Parallels? I have a nice shiny new macbook pro and will be adding Fusion and Vista, and it would be nice if this also backed up that as well.
It's really a shame that it can't back up to a network volume. I have an older Xserve with plenty of drive space that I would prefer to use instead of firewire.
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#51 User is offline   luckylindy Icon

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 10:25 PM

EX-cellent, Rob. Thx!
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#52 User is offline   griffman Icon

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 10:28 PM

It can back up to network volumes, just not Airport disks. If it's AFP-capable and your Mac can mount it, then it should make a viable TM disk.
-rob.

#53 User is offline   griffman Icon

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 10:31 PM

To the Mac OS, the main part of either Parallels or Fusion Windows' installations is one large file. So if you let Time Machine back up these files, you may find the disk filling quickly, as the image file will change each time you run Windows.
I need to experiment with this more when I get 10.5 on my main machine; my test machine didn't have a large enough drive for VMware Fusion and Parallels testing. However, my personal plan will be to back up these files myself (or with another backup app), as I don't need multiple copies of the disk image on my TM disk.
-rob.

#54 User is offline   Regi Icon

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 03:35 AM

I would like to know if it's possible to set up a partition in my har disc for Time Machine. Since I'm going to buy an iMac with 1TB, I would like to use the same HD for back up (despite the risk of damage the entire 1tb HD). Is this possible on Time Machine?
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#55 User is offline   drdreric Icon

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 11:20 AM

Quote:

Quote:

"I expect rebuilding from Time Machine will be a many hour process."
I didn't find that to be the case at all when I tested it. I wiped out my boot disk, ran the installer, then chose the option to restore from the TM drive. You do need to go through a basic OS X install, but then when the migration assistant appears, you tell it to use the TM backup, and it does the rest.
Now I don't have a huge drive in my test machine, and it's only about 30GB full. But really, the time taken should be equal to this: time to restore a clone + about 15 to 20 minutes for the OS X install. So yes, it's slower. But it's not a question of hours vs. minutes.

-rob.


Not if your internal drive has a permanment failure, then having a bootable clone means you can be up and running in seconds instead of perhaps days. This can happen to any drive at any time. If your machine is used for business then this is very important.
Perhaps the answer is to have both.


Good point!
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#56 User is offline   Dan Frakes Icon

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Posted 26 October 2007 - 02:04 PM

Quote:

I would like to know if it's possible to set up a partition in my har disc for Time Machine. Since I'm going to buy an iMac with 1TB, I would like to use the same HD for back up (despite the risk of damage the entire 1tb HD). Is this possible on Time Machine?


Yes, it's possible but -- as you noted -- not recommended. A backup on another partition of the same drive is useful only as convenience if you accidentally delete a file; if the drive has problems, gets stolen, or is physically damaged, you lose both the original and the backup.

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