[folklore]

Philbert said:

"I'd even pay $2-5 per disc if it were simple (i.e., easier than HandBrake)."

You think HandBrake is "hard"? Pick a preset and click a button ... I couldn't imagine it being any simpler.

Let's compare ripping a CD with iTunes and ripping a DVD with HandBrake, assuming default configurations.

First, HandBrake:

1. Insert DVD.
2. Quit DVD Player.
3. Know that HandBrake exists, download it, install it, launch it.
4. Select a source in HandBrake.
5. Select which settings to use (admittedly easier now that there are several presets).
6. Select which audio to rip (HB usually gets this right, but I've accidentally grabbed commentary tracks on several occasions).
7. Select which title(s) to rip.
8. Select a destination and name for the file.
9. Queue the encode job or start it, depending on...
10. If you're ripping a TV show, repeat steps 7-9 until you've gotten all the episodes.
11. If you care about how the video is displayed in iTunes, manually edit the tags using Lostify or some other tool (including iTunes itself).
12. Import the video files into iTunes.

Is it hard? Not terribly, assuming that you know that HB is out there, how to make it work, and are willing to tolerate a few screw-ups the first couple of times. So let's compare that with ripping a CD with iTunes.

Ripping a CD with iTunes:
1. Insert CD.
2. Click Import when iTunes asks you what to do with the disc.

If it were that dead simple to import DVDs, I'd pay for it. Not to mention tools like HB are sorta in a grey area legally - I support the fair use argument for their existence, but DVD ripping is technically illegal. Maybe. I'm not sure a private-use rip of a disc owned by the user has been litigated yet.

[ibeetle]

folklore said:

Quote

If it were that dead simple to import DVDs, I'd pay for it. Not to mention tools like HB are sorta in a grey area legally - I support the fair use argument for their existence, but DVD ripping is technically illegal. Maybe. I'm not sure a private-use rip of a disc owned by the user has been litigated yet.

But AppleTV owners would tell you this.
Step 1 Click on iTunes video section
Step 2 Choose one of the hundreds of movies and/or televsion shows.
Step 3 click on Buy Now button
Step 4 enjoy your completely legal video on a computer, television, or iPod.

[folklore]

[quote name='Peter Cohen']
>

folklore said:

> The problem is that people misunderstand exactly what the AppleTV is. It's a bridge between iTunes and your TV. That's it. That's why it doesn't have a TV tuner or a DVR or a DVD player or a Blu-Ray player or a milkshake machine built in. Because it's not those things. Tech writers - especially PC-centric writers - seem to want to turn the AppleTV into a completely different device.

No, we don't. Really. We're comparing the Apple TV to other products that offer comparable functionality in a similar price range and find it lacking. I'm not expecting it to brown my toast in the morning. I just know I can get a lot more for $300 out of a box that streams video between my computer and my TV.

And the Zune has an FM tuner, but that doesn't make it better than an iPod. And it comes in beautiful, delicious brown. Okay, so that was a cheap shot. :)

Is there a competing product that is that simple to use? I have no desire for an Xbox 360 - I'd never finish my PhD if I had a modern gaming console. And I haven't found a "video jukebox" type appliance that is as well implemented as iTunes + AppleTV. At least not one with adequate Mac support. Plus, I picked up my 40GB AppleTV from the reconditioned section of Apple's online store, so the price was closer to $200 than $300. :)

[folklore]

ibeetle said:

But AppleTV owners would tell you this.
Step 1 Click on iTunes video section
Step 2 Choose one of the hundreds of movies and/or televsion shows.
Step 3 click on Buy Now button
Step 4 enjoy your completely legal video on a computer, television, or iPod.

Agreed, but compared to what's available on DVD, the selection sucks. The content just isn't there, which is what this article was about. Ripping DVDs (legally or not) is one way to solve the content problem.

[alvino]

I too was confused by AppleTV's inclusion on the 10 worst list. Having used ours for the better part of 2007, I spend a lot of time with it for both iTunes content ("The Universe", iTunes U, and other history related programming mostly). We have also put all of our movies on iTunes from our camcorder collection and the family really enjoys this.

There are definitely three pet peeves that keep me from giving AppleTV two thumbs up.

1) No 5.1 surround sound. This is also the reason why I REFUSE to buy any movies from Apple's iTunes store. Until they add surround sound support to the hardware, to quicktime, and to the AppleTV, and until they start selling movies with Surround sound, I will keep buying DVD's. No surround sound, no purchase. That simple.

2) I feel that the movies should be compressed at least 100% larger for better resolution. Current programming from the Apple iTunes store is too granulated for our tastes. I have no problem with 4-GByte downloads, and hard drive space is cheap. One of the nice capabilities of the Airport Extreme with Ethernet is that you can attach networked USB storage. We have several Terabytes already, and I could add much more for little money. About $250 per Terabyte currently, including USB enclosures.

3) BIG pet peeve: I do have a thing for music video. The current version of the AppleTV will NOT allow continuous back-to-back play of your entire collection of music video's. WHY? I have no flippin idea, but it's horrible not to be able to put music video's in the background and simply let them play one after another.

[russellb]

I have been saying this since the day Apple TV came out. (and a few of the posts say the same)

People don't get Apple TV

Yes there are those of us (and I have tried it) that are happy to plug a PC , PC media box, imac, mac mini etc in their lounge. Good luck to you .. but my wife and my 8 yr old and a zillion load of other families around the globe would not agree with us. Most people dont want keyboards and mice in the lounge, most people dont want computers in the lounge.

For those that do thats great and i am sure you get heaps of great complicated extras and functions BUT , thats not what the masses want.

Hey there are still people who could never work out programming a VCR or now a DVR. People want simple and easy .. sit in front of your TV , pickup a super simple remote (AKA Appple Remote) and play your content.

The Apple TV is not meant to be a DVR, a DVD player or anything else .. it is meant to be a super simply way to stream content to your TV .. thats it , nothing more and nothing less.

In it's current form yes we all know that it could be so much more with movie content, movie rentals and looks like we are about to see this happen .. but even without that I love Apple TV .. leave the DVR stuff to products better suited .. my Imac records all my TV content with a Tivo like service here is AU , I tell my Imac (AKA EyeTV) all my favorite TV shows and hey presto .. all my TV for the year is recorded on my Imac and auto exported to Apple TV ready to watch .. no fuss , I dont even have to remember to program anything .. if times and dates change EyeTV aut updates the receoridng schedule etc etc whats not to like about that ..

I have said from day one, no company would ever put out a product with such simplistic menu items like Apple TV and fill those items with top 10 itunes movies or the limited trailer menu etc ... They were always from day one place holders for what we are about to see released.

Steve with the old "it's a hobby line" yeh right ... he knows competitors are stupid enough to dismiss Apple TV as a lame product, meantime Apple has had time to have it out in the field, solve any tech problems and hiccups while people streamed their trailers or other Itunes content via Apple TV and hey presto a firmware update and suddenly Apple TV is a killer box that will take people by surprise.

I think Apple TV has prob been a long term vision of Apple that like a lot of their other successful products .. no one can see it till it hits you in the face ... yup 2008 people will be saying Apple TV was the killer product to sneak up on the market.

[russellb]

But Apple Tv does do 5.1 sound

If I rip a DVD with handbrake and play it on Apple TV , Apple TV passes 5.1 sound to my surround sound home theatre system.

Apple TV does do pass through 5.1 sound that your home theatre tuner will play

[alvino]

I haven't been able to get it to work using handbrake yet, on my AppleTV. It's possible I need to learn more and change a setting.



My complaint about no surround sound is more directed at the "machinery" of Apple's iTune's movie sales, and using them on AppleTV. Apple's movies, as far as I know, are not encoded with 5.1 surround sound so when you buy a movie from Apple to use on your AppleTV, you won't get the full rich audio experience that you would have had buying the DVD.



Sound is half of the experience.

[russellb]

I absolutely agree, just having 5.1 pass through is not good enough ... itunes content and any movie hire content need 5.1 sound , those of us with home theatre sound systems know how important that is.

[gregspeck]

With over 600 movies, 100 TV shows, 6500 photos, and 13,500 items in my ITunes music library, AppleTV is doing exactly what I want. In the latest issue of Electronic House, they reviewed media servers which cost from $2500 to $15,000. While not duplicating each and every item of every server reviewed, AppleTV put out some great sound and video when hooked up to my 42in LCD and JVC sound system.

One unit is operating via wired ethernet, and the other unit is wireless. Both perform equally well.


A simple remote, even my wife can use this one. Simple interface. I had been using IHome for several years, but this beats it easily.

[tracyvalleau]

As an AppleTV owner who doesn't use it much, what would tip the scale for me is for it to play MPEG program stream files. The one thing that's a drag is using EyeTV to capture, say, a 2 hour movie, which it can then export in a matter of minutes as mpg, but have to spend 2 or three -more- hours to encode it into H.264 just for AppleTV.

[Chris Breen]

russellb said:

Quote

People don't get Apple TV

I agree. After initially reviewing the Apple TV and offering up a few opinion pieces on it that praised the device I had a longish email exchange with a guy who had a fairly substantial knowledge of home theatre. He argued, time and again, that the Apple TV's specs weren't good enough -- too little storage, sub-par video, no surround. My response, time and again, was "try one."

He finally did and after he lived with it for a couple of months he kindly responded with a revised point of view. He got it. He saw the value in streaming the content of your iTunes library to a home theatre system. He reported that while he could tell the quality wasn't what he got from true HD, the Apple TV was something you could watch without shuddering. A bit like the iPod when it first appeared (and yes, I was among those who suggested I wanted more from a $400 MP3 player), this is a device you have to try in order to appreciate.

As for the XBox 360 stuff, I think we need to remove the geek goggles and view this stuff from the perspective of the typical consumer. I could have an iRiver MP3 player that offers far more features than the iPod. But I, and millions of others. don't because it's not about the features. It's about convenience and simplicity. The XBox 360 may be a wonderful gaming console that also does cool media stuff, but my mom isn't going to use it for that. She wants the kind of simplicity found on an iPod and the elegant marriage between Apple's media hardware and iTunes. This is ultimately what the Apple TV will offer.

[jcburke7]

I understand all of the gripes about ATV, but I have really enjoyed mine. It IS the content I guess. A little advertised or talked about feature caught my attention and I bought it. PHOTOS!!! I have close to 15,000 digital photos for the past 7 years of having kids, vacations, travel, family gatherings, etc., and they were never very accessible. I just kept moving them from hard drive to hard drive as I changed computers.

Now I have imported them all into iPhoto ('08) and arranged most of them into albums. iTunes then syncs it to my ATV and voila! We can all sit there browsing through the photos by album (yes, I know some of you are barfing at this point). It's a blast. Now I have to start scanning the pre-digital age photos. Then I'm going to start with my home movies (put away the razor blades, I won't invite you over to watch them).

If I never purchase a single thing from iTunes to watch, this thing has been great fun. But I wouldn't mind downloading HD movies and shows to watch someday.

Regards,
John Burke

[Adwiz]

I agree with Christopher: it is the content. I've had an Apple TV since day 1 and love it, though it hasn't been without some frustrations. The interface and ease of use have been awesome, typical of Apple's innovative thinking. My biggest complaint has been the need for so much storage space. I've been gradually ripping my 600+ DVD collection to iTunes, at a cost of upgrading to a dedicated 500GB iTunes hard drive which is already running out of space, and I'm less than halfway through the process. The convenience of not having to find the DVD I want has been worth it, especially for large collections of TV shows. I'd gladly stop going through all of that and sell a big chunk of my DVD collection if I could just rent video content through iTunes. The other complaint with Apple TV has been the less than ideal streaming approach, which doesn't queue up enough cached content during the streaming process, causing it to stop from time to time while playing streaming content -- something that I consider unacceptable in a leading-edge device like this. I use two 80211n base stations to maximize bandwidth and this is still a problem. I'm hoping Apple improves the internal caching which will be essential when downloading large amounts of content live through a rental interface.