[barbandterry]

I appreciate the review. About a week after the take 2 update my wireless connection slowed to an impossible crawl and it actually took an hour to sync a 3 minute video...I had to connect ethernet cable to the box to sync anything. But I filled it up with material that will take months to go through.
What I use it for? I have discovered the incredible collection of podcasts and ITunes U. I have a full physics course on my Apple TV. I can climb to Mt. Everest. I have cooking shows. I have several tutorials, very complete, on Photoshop. I am a physician and on the apple tv now have probably 40 different lectures. The ability to collect this type of variety and watch it instead of the usual TV is what I love about this little TV.

[jbbevan]

This is an outstanding, comprehensive, and accurate review. However, the response to ATV has always been way too "glass half empty" for my liking. I love the box and have since the 1.1 version. It is the center of home entertainment in our home and we use it to the exclusion of most other sources.
I don't think the absence of DVD is a big deal. My system has a functioning DVD player. The point with ATV is you sit down THEN decide what you want to do. With DVD you make that decision before you ever sit down. The ability to select from a large number of video/audio/tv options is really quite wonderful.
Up until ATV-2 I streamed everything (without hiccups 99.9% of the time) and had no use for the hard disc in the ATV unit. For me the hard disk is only useful now that I can download to it and the have it silently but effectively join the download (not rental) to my central iTunes "server". The hard disk makes sense now. It was useless for me until ATV-2. The 160Gb version was for people who didn't get it.
Finally, I just had the experience which defines Apple TV. I want to watch Michael Clayton. Netflix tells me I'm in for a very long wait. I can watch it tonight in HD on my Apple TV.
The glass is very much more than half full !! :)
JBB

[amigasteve]

"and while it has not replaced my DVD player or my cable company's On Demand and DVR service,"

..and therein lies its biggest flaw! ATV still falls well short of a real need for a single STB that does everything. If I could connect it to a server that had inputs from my collection of satellite boxes, not to mention ATSC/NTSC tuners so I could also watch live TV it would be a start. Add to that the ability to schedule recordings on the server from any of these sources, and the ability to burn these recordings to DVD you'd have something really desirable. OK, a lot of this is the server's responsibility but even so the ATV GUI needs to comprehend these capabilities, which AFAIK it cannot do.

(in reply to another post in this thread, why would I want to rent a missed TV show from iTunes if I could record it instead).

I know it's going to be messy but it still seems the most flexible, integrated solution is something like Myth or Sage.

BTW, how could the reviewer, with a straight face describe the ATV's excellent HD capabilities and then wax enthusiastic about playing YouTube videos?

[Chris Breen]

amigasteve said:

"and while it has not replaced my DVD player or my cable company's On Demand and DVR service,"

..and therein lies its biggest flaw! ATV still falls well short of a real need for a single STB that does everything. If I could connect it to a server that had inputs from my collection of satellite boxes, not to mention ATSC/NTSC tuners so I could also watch live TV it would be a start. Add to that the ability to schedule recordings on the server from any of these sources, and the ability to burn these recordings to DVD you'd have something really desirable.

Let us travel back in time to the early days of the iPod:

...and therein lies its biggest flaw! The iPod still falls well short of a real need for a single portable music device. If I could dial into my local FM radio station and record what's playing, attach a microphone or line-in that supports 48k audio, stream music wirelessly from my iPod to any audio receiver within 500 yards, invert the phase so I can create on-the-go karaoke tracks it would be a start.

In short: Have we learned nothing from the iPod experience? Of course the Apple TV won't replace your DVD player or On Demand and DVR Service ? yet. But it takes no more than 7 ounces of imagination to extend what we have today to what could easily be possible tomorrow.

[amigasteve]

LOL! I guess that explains why I still don't own an iPod to this day. My phone plays MP3s AND tunes FM stations, so why would I want to carry another box around with me? (even if the iPod is cute and has a great UI).

That's also why I don't have an iPhone either, as long as it cannot replace all the functionality I have in my Palm it would just be another box to carry. I hope with the forthcoming SDK that capability will soon be available.

I've applied my 7 ounces of imagination to spell out what today's ATV should have been compared to yesterday's original version. I guess what I'm saying is that the folks behind Myth and Sage have already applied their 7 ounces and Apple is lagging behind. Apple clearly has superiority when it comes to computers, I just wish they'd do the same for their STB. I would respectfully suggest that Apple take a look at what Elgato is doing with EyeTV and EyeConnect and build upon that, ATV is notably absent from the list of mediaplayers supported.

[Chris Breen]

Then clearly you're not the customer for this device.

But I'll bet there are a hell of a lot of people who are.

As much as I like Elgato's stuff, they're looking back rather than forward ? another device to replace existing devices that offer similar functionality. The Apple TV is a forward-looking technology ? one where discs are a thing of the past and where our media lives in the ether.

[Philmco]

Geez. If you don't even own an ipod (or try to compare what your cel phone does to one) you probably shouldn't be commenting!

Granted everyone has a right to an opinion, but I'm afraid your credibility and understanding of a great product are sorely suspect.

[mario_capo]

I think he's spot on, Apple can make everyone of his complaints into a reality with a revolutionary box. I don't think they are behind competition but I do believe they have all the potential to make this into an amazing device that makes it easy and convenient to replace a few components in someones entertainment center. I would spend even more on it if it could do the things he mentioned. But it is an Apple product and it will probably sell regardless. I already listed my few complaints about the device, but it seriously can have potential that I never considered until reading a few of these posts. Not sure how good it would be for Apple if it had DVR possibilities though, could cut into iTunes sales in a big way.

[amigasteve]

Chris Breen said:

Then clearly you're not the customer for this device.

But I'll bet there are a hell of a lot of people who are.

As much as I like Elgato's stuff, they're looking back rather than forward ? another device to replace existing devices that offer similar functionality. The Apple TV is a forward-looking technology ? one where discs are a thing of the past and where our media lives in the ether.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with that comment, Chris. EyeTV is not really a disc based offering but does have the ability to pluck content out of the ether, be it over-the-air local channels or satellite-delivered programming, neither of which ATV offers. How do you propose we watch live sporting events in the future, or do you think we should wait until we can download the Superbowl for rent from the iTunes store?

I would put the ATV firmly in the category of a "device to replace existing devices" - look at all the other media players that are out there. Maybe for some people movie rentals is the killer app that makes it a must-have toy, but I think it could have had so much more and really stand out from the crowd.

[Chris Breen]

EyeTV is a DVR for your computer. DVRs exist. Thus the looking backwards remark.

And my point about the iPod in relationship to the Apple TV was this: We're not looking for a device that does everything. The iPod doesn't do everything -- no radio, no recording, no shoe shining, etc. I understand that you want that complete convergence device but the iPod pretty well demonstrates that the majority of people don't.

So, no, we don't need the Apple TV for live TV. Live TV's got that one covered. But it would be cool if we didn't need to depend on discs any longer or take a trip to the video store or wait for the mail to arrive to get movies. The puzzle that no one's been able to adequately solve is video on demand and the Apple TV along with a well-stocked Apple Store offers that possibility.

To me that's pretty powerful.

[amigasteve]

Philmco said:

Geez. If you don't even own an ipod (or try to compare what your cel phone does to one) you probably shouldn't be commenting!

Granted everyone has a right to an opinion, but I'm afraid your credibility and understanding of a great product are sorely suspect.

Sorry, Philmco, didn't realize you have to own an iPod to have any credibility. (Does that include iPhone owners too, who have traded in there iPods?).

"Hey, Steve, is that an iPod in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?"
"Yes, it's my new iPod"
"Why did you get that?"
"So I can play tunes while I'm out and about"
"But doesn't your phone already play tunes?"
"Yes"
"But doesn't your Palm also play tunes?"
"Yes"
"Oh, Steve, you're so credible, tell me what you think about Apple TV"

[mario_capo]

Haha, I liked that little dialogue ^^, but i have an iPhone and and iPod, so my opinion matters more than anyones. Bwahaha!

[amigasteve]

mario_capo said:

Haha, I liked that little dialogue ^^, but i have an iPhone and and iPod, so my opinion matters more than anyones. Bwahaha!

Mario, I bow down in awe before you!!!!!

So, oh credible one, how are we going to solve all the world's problems?

[amigasteve]

Chris Breen said:

EyeTV is a DVR for your computer. DVRs exist. Thus the looking backwards remark.

And my point about the iPod in relationship to the Apple TV was this: We're not looking for a device that does everything. The iPod doesn't do everything -- no radio, no recording, no shoe shining, etc. I understand that you want that complete convergence device but the iPod pretty well demonstrates that the majority of people don't.

So, no, we don't need the Apple TV for live TV. Live TV's got that one covered. But it would be cool if we didn't need to depend on discs any longer or take a trip to the video store or wait for the mail to arrive to get movies. The puzzle that no one's been able to adequately solve is video on demand and the Apple TV along with a well-stocked Apple Store offers that possibility.

To me that's pretty powerful.

OK, Chris, I'll leave ATV alone for now! (However, I notice the article says it takes about 2 hours, my max download speed is about 2.5Mbps, before I can start watching an HD movie. I can go to the video store, watch the DVD, and return it before I can watch it on ATV!).

But I think you're well off the mark with your comments that DVR's exist and LiveTV's got it covered. While they do exist they don't work the way we'd like. Consider ATV, by sticking one on each TV in the house I can have access to my entire library of stored music and videos. Even if I stick a satellite box, DVR and HDTV tuner on every TV in the house, I still don't have this sharing capability. (It's even worse for me because I have 4, count 'em, satellite boxes and plumbing coax to multiple TVs would be a huge hassle. Let's say I'm sitting in bed watching a movie, get tired and decide to record it to watch later. The next day I'm sitting in the den and decide I'd like to watch the rest of the movie. Well I guess I'll have to go back to the bedroom and watch it on the DVR up there. Instead wouldn't it be great if I pooled all those resources on a single (or multiple) server(s) and could access that content on any TV in the house with an ATV like box? No-one has that (although AT&T initially promoted their Uverse DVR as having that capability they never did make it work) and wouldn't it be great if Apple made it possible, and even better, easy to set up and use?

OK, I may be well beyond ATV's mandate but some of Apple's more recent products have raised the bar, and I would love it if they could do the same for TV sharing as they've done for music and movies.