[OlsonBW]

"I'm curious to know if this sentiment works both ways. For each person who wants the smallest laptop imaginable and doesn't mind sacrificing expandability or serviceability, there are just as many people for whom expandability and serviceability are important. So when other people want Macs that are easier to take apart and service, or laptops with a docking station and modular drive bay, will their opinions be taken seriously? Or would people (possibly yourself) still go on and on with responses like "who needs that", "but that would add weight and thickness", or "if you don't like it then go buy a PC"? Are opinions only welcome as long as they do not criticize Apple?"

Your wishes are just as valid as those people wishing or finding to their surprise that they like or love the MacBook Air.

The important thing is not to disrespect a computer just because it isn't for you. Ok, go ahead and disrespect Windows computers. It's just too hard not to.

The problem for you (NOT with you) at this time is that Apple doesn't appear to be interested in the type of computer that you want. I KNOW this is frustrating to the nth degree.

Apple used to have pretty much every option (in house) that someone could possibly want. It got to be a real mess to the point that nobody could figure out what to buy. Very much like Windows Vista now if you live in a world where you think you can only buy a Windows computer.

Steve Jobs cleaned up that mess to the huge disappointment to many people. The difference though is that Apple is now very profitable and is growing at a lot faster rate than the Windows PC industry. Of course it's a lot easier to ship a greater percentage of computers vs last year when you shipped a lot less computers the year before.

So ... what does Steve Jobs do? People want lots of options. Lots of options confused way too many people and Apple almost went bankrupt. So when do you get too many options? That is what Steve Jobs has to worry about and avoid?

Keep in mind that MOST of us would have our own short or long wish list of what would be perfect for us. The problem is that those wish lists would be all over the place. Again back to too many options and back to going towards bankruptcy. And yes, I do believe that too many options creates too much confusion and bad things happen.

You can point to the PC industry which is a mess. Even with all those options there is a small percentage of people which probably is quite a few thousand people that build their own machines from scratch and install Windows or Linux or Haiku or ...

You cannot satisfy everyone. You have to pick what you think are the best markets and go after them. The first person you should always ask the main question is yourself. And what is the main question? What would I drool over? Apparently what you see is what Steve Jobs drools over.

As for the Mac Mini, I think he doesn't like it at all but gave in to pressure on that one. Keep in mind that it did not in any way conflict with any other models. That is the key point.

Let me know if I'm not clear enough. Keep hoping though. Steve Jobs has surprised us LOTS of times. He may just come out with yours tomorrow.

Again, your wishes are just as important. But the people that love the MacBook Air are just as important. Don't demean the MacBook Air or them just because it isn't for you.

[georgep]

This is a Macworld forum, so one would expect people here to be Mac biased. I have four Macs in my household, so I am pretty biased that way myself. But, I also use Wintel machines, and while they are not as nice, they are functional. So, when looking at the compromises involved in the MBA, I look at what Wintel machines have been able to accomplish.

This is where I have a problem with the solutions which Steve Jobs has decided to impose on us on this occasion. I see, in the Wintel arena, machines which are as light and lighter, have many ports, have internal optical drives, have exchangeable batteries, and which are built of stronger, more resistant materials than aluminum (carbon fibre and titanium). He may be building a machine for future technologies, but we live in the present. And travelling around the world brings you back to earth on how difficult it is to connect in other countries.

After years of carrying around a Sony Vaio T series, I have spent the last year lugging a MacBook on trips while awaiting the long projected MacBook Light. The MacBook uses lower cost technology, as can be seen by the fact that a 13in MacBook is barely lighter than a 15in MacBook Pro. Mac people may be happy enough with the MBA because it is lighter than a MacBook, uses OS X, and has the backlit keyboard. But, Sony, Toshiba, Asus, Lenovo, and others have proven that they can make just as light machines without all these compromises just by adding a few millimetres of thickness. For me, lightness is the key, functionality is second, and the OS, in this case, comes third.

If you are so anti-Windows that you are willing to make all the necessary compromises in owning an MBA, then good for you. I cannot accept the faults in design (I don't mean style) so I will open my mind to the much more functional range of Wintel machines that are out there. But, I am just enough anti-Windows that I will install Linux on the new machine. It will be more functional for travelling than an MBA, will fit perfectly in my smallest carry-on bag, and take the pressure off my, already, aching back.

[OlsonBW]

Again, what is a compromise to YOU is not necessary a compromise or problem for us.

The few times I got to other countries like Amsterdam or Greece or Germany, I've had little need for a wired ethernet connection in the last couple of years. I rarely have a need for printing and when I do I've had no problem borrowing a printer or even e-mailing the place I'm staying at and having them print it for me. For a little charge of course but that is better than lugging around a printer. CD/DVD drive?

Well, for $99 I can have the little CD/DVD drive made for the air that takes up almost no room at all. But why even do that when I can have anything I need on my 60 GB iPod (G4) or my Nano, both of which I always have with me and I can use the CD/DVD if I need to.

FireWire port? I've NEVER needed a firewire port when I've been in another country. What am I hooking up to? My video camera? Maybe I could but I prefer spending my time enjoying my time there instead working in iMovie or Final Cut Express. What a waste of vacation time.

What else might I be missing? Nothing I can think of while traveling.

The vast majority of the time I'm in the US. The same rules apply. I do my heavy lifting when at home. If I needed more I would buy more.

Those laptops you mention? They all have one serious problem that is far, FAR bigger than anything I can get in a MacBook, MacBook Air, or Pro. That is Windows. The first thing I would do is format it and install Ubuntu or something else but Windows? Sorry, I'm not that sadistic. (Note: I'm a computer systems analyst who has to travel from time to time. I support Windows computer for a living. There is nothing you can tell me about anything up through Vista that I don't already need to know about.)

Sorry that Apple doesn't make THE laptop for you. If they thought they could make a lot of money on the laptop you want, then I'm guessing, if it stood out enough as compared to the MacBook, they would make it. Something is telling them that ENOUGH people are not interested in this form factor. Maybe it is because the battery wouldn't last long enough. I don't know.

As for the MacBook Air's battery. GIVE IT A REST. Any twelve year old with a screw driver can take the bottom off the MacBook Air, take out the battery, and replace it. Sure there are lots of screws. The battery is part of the structure of the MacBook Air. But if you have enough time to worry about devices that plug into the FireWire port, I'm guessing you have enough time to unscrew all the screws, take the second battery that I'm guessing Apple is more than happy to sell you, and install it. The only question is how you are going to keep both of them charged. You never mention that and I could see where you are coming at with that.

By the way, tell us about one of your business trips or other wise as to what exactly you can't do with the MacBook Air. I want a DETAILED list of what you CAN'T do. We already know what can be done. What can't you do. Be specific. Be detailed.

[Brettcamp]

I wonder if some of the Mac users who really need something smaller than the MBA are using iPhones (maybe with external keyboards) instead?

[OlsonBW]

Not if they have to do any writing or entering numbers into a spreadsheet. Or remoting into someone else's computer (I have to do that sometimes).

The best way I can sum it up is:

If you just look at data and reply in short e-mails then the iPhone could be perfect.

But if create data, and I mean more than a short e-mail like having to write up reports, then the iPhone currently isn't good enough.

What I'm really waiting for in this case, is a keyboard that plugs into the docking port. Yes I can definitely see myself and other people using something like this.

As for what kind of keyboard. There are the normal ones, plus roll up ones, plus one that I've seen that is an infrared device that projects a keyboard onto a flat surface and the infrared determines what you are typing. It's really cool. There is one for Palms and other devices but as far as I know, not the iPhone yet.

[Podesta]

As an owner of the MacBook Air for nearly two months, I find some of the suggestions to 'improve' it really miss the mark. Apple has never uglied up its computers with features such as memory card and fingerprint readers. That certainly is not going to happen to the MacBook Air, which is designed to look like a solid slice of aluminum. Nor is a dock needed. The external SuperDrive, Ethernet dongle and USB port meet most connection needs without the added weight and busyness of a dock. (Some years ago, I chose a PowerBook 165c over a PowerBook Duo for much the same reasons.) Neither is a removable battery as pressing a need as some folks think. We have had years to get used to using such devices with the iPod and months with the iPhone.

Like another informed commenter, I find it difficult to envision what those hyper-critical of the MacBook Air would do with the broad array of features they want added to it. For example, even low-end inkjet printers come with media readers now, reducing or eliminating the need to print from computers.

Another irony. Currently, my MacBook Air is on my desk. I am composing and sending this missive on my iPhone, another 'different' device the hyper-critical said would fail.

[OlsonBW]

"Like another informed commenter, I find it difficult to envision what those hyper-critical of the MacBook Air would do with array of features they want added to it. For example, even low-end inkjet printers come with media readers now, reducing or eliminating the need to print from computers."

Excellent point. I forgot about the media readers on printers.

[Dan Frakes]

georgep said:

I see, in the Wintel arena, machines which are as light and lighter, have many ports, have internal optical drives, have exchangeable batteries, and which are built of stronger, more resistant materials than aluminum (carbon fibre and titanium).

Let's not exaggerate the graces of the competition here. Which Windows laptop has a 13-inch LED display, a full-size keyboard, and a full-size trackpad; isn't made of cheap plastic; weighs 3 pounds or less; has "many ports" (built-in, not via a docking station); has a replaceable 4- or 5-hour battery; has comparable processing power; has a built-in optical drive; isn't considerably larger or thicker than the MacBook Air; and is under $1800? That would be the "Air killer" you're talking about, but it doesn't actually exist ;)

(What's that? Did someone say it's unreasonable to demand an example of a computer that has the best of the Air and the best of the Windows ultralights at a comparable price? Why, yes, it is, which essentially proves my point about compromises. Until such a "dream machine" exists and is affordable, different sets of compromises will appeal to different people.)

georgep said:

If you are so anti-Windows that you are willing to make all the necessary compromises in owning an MBA, then good for you.

The people in this thread have, for the most part, kept the discussion civil, and most, on both sides of the discussion, have made reasoned arguments. This comment really lowers the level of discourse.

[tomwjax]

I'd like to mention the big picture here. I bought my first Apple product in 1983, the IIe. It changed my family's quality of life. Now, I'm preparing to buy an MBA which will further improve my quality of life. (My beloved 12 inch PB is still beloved, but I have a chance to add the MBA to my fleet. We also have a G4 PowerMac which is doing fine.) I bought my first ipod the week they were introduced. I love my current ipod video. As for the iphone, for two months I really believed I did not need it.
I was wedded to my 6 year old Samsung i300 because it did what I then believed a phone should do .. make calls and keep a phone book (Oh God, syncing that thing was a HUGE pain). Finally, I picked up and held an iphone. What a Neanderthal I had been! The iphone catapulted me into the 21st century. And I believe it is really the IIe of portable communication devices. I can't wait to see what Apple will do next. So, just look at what Apples products have done for me in the past 25 years. Is it any wonder I am loyal?

[greg30307]

[quote name='Dan Frakes']
>

georgep said:

> I see, in the Wintel arena, machines which are as light and lighter, have many ports, have internal optical drives, have exchangeable batteries, and which are built of stronger, more resistant materials than aluminum (carbon fibre and titanium).

Let's not exaggerate the graces of the competition here. Which Windows laptop has a 13-inch LED display, a full-size keyboard, and a full-size trackpad; isn't made of cheap plastic; weighs 3 pounds or less; has "many ports" (built-in, not via a docking station); has a replaceable 4- or 5-hour battery; has comparable processing power; has a built-in optical drive; isn't considerably larger or thicker than the MacBook Air; and is under $1800? That would be the "Air killer" you're talking about, but it doesn't actually exist ;)

(What's that? Did someone say it's unreasonable to demand an example of a computer that has the best of the Air and the best of the Windows ultralights at a comparable price? Why, yes, it is, which essentially proves my point about compromises. Until such a "dream machine" exists and is affordable, different sets of compromises will appeal to different people.)

Well, I don't know, Dan. The Lenovo/IBM X-series seems to be all you said except for the integrated optical drive (and personally I do not think it is necessary in an ultra-portable). I also do not know the comparison between the processors.

Lenovo X-series

But otherwise, the X-series seems everything the MBA could have been--3 lb., full size keyboard, multiple ports, ethernet, solid built, and for about the same price--if Apple had not wanted to make what seems to have been a marketing decision to make the thinest possible notebook. They could have even put in a 13" screen if they had wanted.

And for those of who say Apple could not build something that pleases everyone, are you saying would you have not bought the MBA if it was the same weight, good build, full size keyboard, etc., but INCLUDED all the X-series does?

[Dan Frakes]

greg30307 said:

Well, I don't know, Dan. The Lenovo/IBM X-series seems to be all you said except for the integrated optical drive (and personally I do not think it is necessary in an ultra-portable). I also do not know the comparison between the processors.

The X300 is the closest thing to the Air right now on the Windows side. However, while it has some features the Air doesn't?such as more ports and a built-in optical drive?it's also got a considerably slower processor, less RAM, no software other than the OS, and, most significant, costs over $1000 more than the standard Air?partly because it's available only with an SSD drive. (It's also got a plastic enclosure, but it's supposedly pretty sturdy.)

The lower models in the X-series line are thicker, heavier, and also underpowered compared to the Air. In fact, once you upgrade them with comparable memory, OS, battery life, and wireless capability, as well as optical-drive compatibility, you're getting close to the Air's price for a larger, heavier, slower machine with a smaller, inferior-quality display.

That's not to say that the X-series laptops aren't good computers, or that they won't satisfy many people. I've heard very good things about them. My point is only, as I noted above, that the "best of everything" machines georgep describes don't currently exist anywhere near the Air's $1799 price point.

greg30307 said:

And for those of who say Apple could not build something that pleases everyone, are you saying would you have not bought the MBA if it was the same weight, good build, full size keyboard, etc., but INCLUDED all the X-series does?

I've said quite clearly that it would be great if the Air had all those features. But it doesn't, and there currently isn't a laptop on the market that offers the best of the Air and the best of the X series without a price considerably higher than the Air's $1799 price tag.

To beat the dead horse: compromises.

[greg30307]

[quote name='Dan Frakes']
> [quote name='greg30307']
> Well, I don't know, Dan. The Lenovo/IBM X-series seems to be all you said except for the integrated optical drive (and personally I do not think it is necessary in an ultra-portable). I also do not know the comparison between the processors.

The X300 is the closest thing to the Air right now on the Windows side. However, while it has some features the Air doesn't?such as more ports and a built-in optical drive?it's also got a considerably slower processor, less RAM, no software other than the OS, and, most significant, costs over $1000 more than the standard Air?partly because it's available only with an SSD drive. (It's also got a plastic enclosure, but it's supposedly pretty sturdy.)

The lower models in the X-series line are thicker, heavier, and also underpowered compared to the Air. In fact, once you upgrade them with comparable memory, OS, battery life, and wireless capability, as well as optical-drive compatibility, you're getting close to the Air's price for a larger, heavier, slower machine with a smaller, inferior-quality display.

That's not to say that the X-series laptops aren't good computers, or that they won't satisfy many people. I've heard very good things about them. My point is only, as I noted above, that the "best of everything" machines georgep describes don't currently exist anywhere near the Air's $1799 price point.


>

greg30307 said:

> And for those of who say Apple could not build something that pleases everyone, are you saying would you have not bought the MBA if it was the same weight, good build, full size keyboard, etc., but INCLUDED all the X-series does?

I've said quite clearly that it would be great if the Air had all those features. But it doesn't, and there currently isn't a laptop on the market that offers the best of the Air and the best of the X series without a price considerably higher than the Air's $1799 price tag.

To beat the dead horse: compromises.

Dan, I agree, you have to make compromises. And a compromise on which I agree with Apple is not having an integrated optical drive. With today's technology, to get a full-size keyboard, 12" or 13" screen, weight 3 lb. or less, and costing less $2000, one has to leave out the optical drive. I, at least, think that is a good compromise.

I disagree that Apple really had to make the other compromises it made. As you said, the X300 is in a different class than the conventional HD MBA. A better comparison is the X61s, which is slightly older but still a current model. The X61s has many options; the below is configured as close as I could to the MBA.

MacBook Air.......................................................Lenovo X61s
12.8" wide x 8.9" deep x 0.16-0.76? thick...............10.5" wide x 8.3" deep x 0.8-1.1" thick
3 lb.....................................................................3 lb.
13.3" screen........................................................12.1" screen
5 hours battery life................................................4 hours battery life (3.5 lb for 8 hr battery)
aluminum body.....................................................magnesium-alloy & carbon-fiber
full size keyboard.................................................full size keyboard
Intel Core 2 Duo 1.6 GHz 4 MB L2 cache 800 MHz FSB.....................................Intel Core 2 Duo 1.8 GHz 4 MB L2 cache 800 FSB
2 G of 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM............................2 G of 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM
80 G 4200 rpm HD..............................................80 G 5400 rpm HD
WiFi..................................................................WiFi
Bluetooth 2.1.....................................................Bluetooth
1 USB...............................................................3 USB
no firewire..........................................................1 firewire
no ethernet.........................................................ethernet
no modem..........................................................modem
$1799................................................................$1519 (periodic sales), $1948 regular

I can tell you from personal experience with IBM/Lenovo notebooks, the body is extremely durable, the build quality is high, and the keyboard is the best I have ever used. The screen, I agree, is not as good. I don't know: how much faster is the MBA's processor and does it make up for the slower hard drive?

So, yes, compromises have to be made, but my point is that for the bragging rights to the world's thinnest notebook, Apple gave up a lot more than it had to.

My other point is this: I wonder if Apple left out the ethernet and wifi not just to produce an extremely thin and beautiful computer, but also to appeal only to certain kinds of people, people who are upper income or at least willing to pay up for technology, the kind of people who have easy and ubiquitous access to secure wifi and can do without wired connections. Same reason, I believe, that the modem was dropped from the MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Believe it or not some of you, high speed in not easily available in more rural areas and in lower cost motels and hotels. I already have to carry an external modem for my MacBook. With the MacBook Air, I would have to carry an external modem and an external ethernet.

It is hard to argue with Apple's current financial position and it is certainly better than Apple be healthy and growing. But it is just too bad, in my opinion, that Apple, the company that originally built "the computer for the rest of us" seems to deliberately not want to appeal to more ordinary people in this and many other ways.

[Martian]

greg30307 said:

My other point is this: ... high speed in not easily available in more rural areas and in lower cost motels and hotels.

I will add that so many urban, business class hotels across the price range spread, that were early adopters of in-room Ethernet broadband, have not switched to WiFi.

[OlsonBW]

Quote: I will add that so many urban, business class hotels across the price range spread, that were early adopters of in-room Ethernet broadband, have not switched to WiFi.

For $99 you can buy an Apple AirPort Express Base Station http://store.apple.c...&nplm=MB321LL/A which you can plug into the wired ethernet at hotels/motels and then you have wireless networking.

Just make sure you have some way of remembering to take it with you when you leave. Other people probably have a pretty good idea of ways to remember. Like putting velcro on the AirPort Express and attaching it to your luggage or your wallet and keys.

If you can't afford $99 for this after buying the MacBook Air, my guess is you can't afford to eat so the problem "won't be an issue" for too long.