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Up to Discussions in Desktop Macs
58 Replies Last post: Sep 27, 2004 8:27 PM by enb141   Go to original post 1 2 3 4 Previous Next
Click to view Praxis's profile Enthusiast
Praxis
1,614 posts since
Jul 25, 2003
30. Sep 17, 2004 8:40 PM in response to: MacCheetah3
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
You're not getting it. Some people actually DO like to play high end games. I'd be PERFECTLY happy with an iMac, IF THE GRAPHICS CARD WAS UPGRADEABLE!
Since it's not, I want a PowerMac.
A SP 1.8 for $1599 would be perfect.

Look at it this way. Let's say I want to get a Mac for games. But the only way to do this is to buy a DUAL 1.8 G5 PowerMac, then upgrade the graphics card, because no other computer has an upgradeable graphics card.

But the dual 1.8 costs $2000 minimum without a good graphics card, and most games only use one processor so it's wasted!

So Apple should give the option of a bigger graphics card for the iMac and/or eMac.
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Click to view MacCheetah3's profile Old Hand
MacCheetah3
6,548 posts since
Apr 2, 2001
31. Sep 17, 2004 10:46 PM in response to: Praxis
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
Hi
I understand some play high end games. What I said was no matter which platform you're using, you're going to pay a couple grand, at least, for being able to play the latest and greatest games at decent to great quality.

Apple doesn't really need to conform to gaming needs.

1) There are numerous companies already (yes Windows based PCs) that offer gaming specific rigs
2) You have a handful of gaming consoles
3) Many game developers shun away from Mac OS compatibility because of the sales numbers and they probably wouldn't increase dramatically if your wish did come true.

MacCheetah3
Apple PowerBook G4 Titanium 1GHz, 1GB, 60GB, SuperDrive, Airport, Mac OS X, 20GB iPod (4G)
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Click to view Praxis's profile Enthusiast
Praxis
1,614 posts since
Jul 25, 2003
32. Sep 17, 2004 11:06 PM in response to: MacCheetah3
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
In reply to:<hr />

1) There are numerous companies already (yes Windows based PCs) that offer gaming specific rigs

<hr />

Yes, but I want it on one desktop. I don't want to switch between several desktops or have seperate Mac and Windows versions of software.

In reply to:<hr />
2) You have a handful of gaming consoles

<hr />


Nothing matches a keyboard and mouse.

In reply to:<hr />
3) Many game developers shun away from Mac OS compatibility because of the sales numbers and they probably wouldn't increase dramatically if your wish did come true.


<hr />


So what? They have all the games I want- so I'm happy. Check the list- there's a ton of Mac games.


In reply to:<hr />
I understand some play high end games. What I said was no matter which platform you're using, you're going to pay a couple grand, at least, for being able to play the latest and greatest games at decent to great quality.

<hr />


Are you kidding? A $500 PC + a $200 graphics card (Geforce 6600GT perhaps?) can OWN almost all modern games on high quality.

An iMac G5 1.6 GHz + a Radeon 9800 Pro ($300 upgrade) would be a perfect gaming machine. Even with a Radeon 9600XT would be great.
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Click to view Grant_G's profile Old Hand
Grant_G
5,630 posts since
Jan 12, 2001
33. Sep 18, 2004 11:08 AM in response to: Praxis
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
Actually, Praxis, it's you who doesn't get it. MacCheetah3 has capably explained the Apple business model to you. He has also explained that relatively similar machines at the very high end cost relatively the same amount, regardless of platform. He isn't addressing consumer level products when doing so, nor, obviously, has Apple chosen to do so by its decision to not make the eMac or new iMac to YOUR specifications. He has given you Apple's game plan on a platter -- you persist in wishful thinking. Apple isn't Dell. They don't have the same BTO capabilities. By design, I suspect.

G
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Click to view Praxis's profile Enthusiast
Praxis
1,614 posts since
Jul 25, 2003
34. Sep 18, 2004 6:41 PM in response to: Grant_G
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
Yes, but it's not the Pro's that play the games The Consumer (or prosumer at least) machines should be capable of playing higher end games.
I mean, how hard would it be to get a Radeon 9600 in the iMac G5 instead of the FX 5200 Ultra? It would give gamers a computer to buy, without stealing away any of the light from the PowerMacs.
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Click to view enb141's profile New Member
enb141
75 posts since
Jul 29, 2003
35. Sep 19, 2004 3:13 PM in response to: Praxis
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
Yeah totally agree with you, they should consider to bring a model in where the AGP Card (or a PCI express) could be exchanged by another one (not integrated) like your hard drive or your system memory, even if you cannot choose when you bought it, at least you can replace it by yourself or in an authorized dealer/repair center.
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Click to view MacCheetah3's profile Old Hand
MacCheetah3
6,548 posts since
Apr 2, 2001
36. Sep 20, 2004 10:45 AM in response to: Praxis
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
Hi
The fact of the matter is...Those who play the latest and greatest games most of the day could as much be called professional gamers and, no matter which platform, require professional level computers. They're computer can normally do things like DV and 3D better than the rest of the block but they still only use them for gaming.

The iMac is just fine for those who play Doom 3, Quake 3, etc when they have a few minutes or hours in a day when they're bored, whatever, and won't trade their first born for the utmost highest quality settings to run at 60+ fps.

MacCheetah3
Apple PowerBook G4 Titanium 1GHz, 1GB, 60GB, SuperDrive, Airport, Mac OS X, 20GB iPod (4G)
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Click to view Praxis's profile Enthusiast
Praxis
1,614 posts since
Jul 25, 2003
37. Sep 20, 2004 6:20 PM in response to: MacCheetah3
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
Not at all. A 2 GHz P4 with a powerful enough graphics card can run Doom 3 at high quality pretty well. You don't need a dual processor machine to play the latest and greatest games. You only need the powerful graphics card, and a good processor (besides, games don't use the second processor).

But the only Mac that allows you to get a graphics card bigger than an FX 5200 Ultra is a dual processor PowerMac, and the dual processor goes to waste in this kind of thing.

On the other hand, an iMac with a Radeon 9800XT or even 9600XT will run great on the latest games on max quality.
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Click to view enb141's profile New Member
enb141
75 posts since
Jul 29, 2003
38. Sep 21, 2004 7:13 AM in response to: Praxis
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
Agree and also you have to remember that now days Video Cards need to be upgraded as sooner as possible, you can keep your processor for two or three years but if you play games you need to change your video card every one or two years so my point is that Video Cards need to be upgraded faster than processors, in my list of upgrades are:

1) Hard Drive
2) System Memory
3) Video Card
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Click to view MacCheetah3's profile Old Hand
MacCheetah3
6,548 posts since
Apr 2, 2001
39. Sep 21, 2004 11:48 AM in response to: enb141
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
Hi
In reply to:<hr />
ou don't need a dual processor machine to play the latest and greatest games. You only need the powerful graphics card, and a good processor (besides, games don't use the second processor).

<hr />

Agreed.
In reply to:<hr />
But the only Mac that allows you to get a graphics card bigger than an FX 5200 Ultra is a dual processor PowerMac, and the dual processor goes to waste in this kind of thing.

<hr />

There are still some 1.8GHz SP Power Macs in some far corners of the universe. It just takes a bit of research and maybe time. But we won't argue this.

MP doesn't completely go to waste as the game has one whole processor while any, even little, background tasks can use the other. But it isn't worth a MP price tag, I agree.
In reply to:<hr />
A 2 GHz P4 with a powerful enough graphics card can run Doom 3 at high quality pretty well.

<hr />

I can't really agree with this. While the GPU is a large part of the gaming equation, there is still a lot of processing for the CPU to complete before it sends it off the the GPU. Something has to feed it. The only example I could quickly find is this benchmark. This is only Halo. Plus, these benchmarks are using a 3.2GHz P4, 1GB DDR400, and a nice mobo. Look at the 9800XT performance at 1280x1024 or even 1600x1200. You can tell me that you could play Doom III at high quality with a P4 2.0GHz and a 9600XT?

One last time. The iMac is great for those who play games on and off and won't go jumping off the nearest bridge if it doesn't look perfect. For those of you who do, you're going to need a high end system no matter what.

MacCheetah3
Apple PowerBook G4 Titanium 1GHz, 1GB, 60GB, SuperDrive, Airport, Mac OS X, 20GB iPod (4G)
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Click to view Ronaldinho's profile Member
Ronaldinho
425 posts since
May 12, 2001
40. Sep 21, 2004 3:54 PM in response to: MacCheetah3
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
Hey, I agree that the one feature missing on this iMac is an upgradeable graphics card.

But I think it's a pretty damn good machine. I am curious how well it'll play Doom3 when it comes out.
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Click to view aliasfox's profile Member
aliasfox
401 posts since
May 14, 2001
41. Sep 21, 2004 3:57 PM in response to: Praxis
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?

Praxis said:
In reply to:<hr />
Are you kidding? A $500 PC + a $200 graphics card (Geforce 6600GT perhaps?) can OWN almost all modern games on high quality.


<hr />


I just built up the $418 system at iBuyPower.com. Of course, that $418 system didn't come with a DVD drive (sometimes needed for program installation), basic works suite, screen, or even an operating system. After adding those in (and boosting RAM to 512 MB), it comes in at $879. Oh, and it still has a GeForce 5200 (non-Ultra) with 128 megs of RAM. For gaming, it is a rough match to the combo drive eMac running with 512 MB RAM. That is to say, Each machine will most likely run anything you throw at it, but neither will run anything modern with any alacrity.

Oh, and in case you're talking about those $500 complete systems that Gateway or Dell seem to offer every week as an "awesome deal." Good luck finding an AGP slot in those machines to put that $200 graphics card- you'll probably be stuck with PCI, as the AGP bus is used for their awesome Intel Integrated Extreme Graphics. And good luck pumping any speed out of the Celerons those machines come with- even at 2.6 GHz, they're still a joke to the entire PC community.
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Click to view JackMac's profile Enthusiast
JackMac
1,060 posts since
Mar 7, 2002
42. Sep 22, 2004 7:33 AM in response to: Praxis
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
What you are looking for seems like the G4s that were available for about a year after the G5s were introduced. It also made me think about my StarMax clone as well as the other clones that were reasonably priced very upgradable alternatives to the Apple manufactured models. It might be interesting to see the guts of an iMac or eMac in a box without a monitor or keyboard and mouse just to see what kind of price would be put on it. It wouldn't have to be visually stunning and unique like the Cube, but then it wouldn't really be a Mac now would it.
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Click to view Praxis's profile Enthusiast
Praxis
1,614 posts since
Jul 25, 2003
43. Sep 22, 2004 8:36 AM in response to: aliasfox
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
In reply to:<hr />

I just built up the $418 system at iBuyPower.com. Of course, that $418 system didn't come with a DVD drive (sometimes needed for program installation), basic works suite, screen, or even an operating system. After adding those in (and boosting RAM to 512 MB), it comes in at $879. Oh, and it still has a GeForce 5200 (non-Ultra) with 128 megs of RAM. For gaming, it is a rough match to the combo drive eMac running with 512 MB RAM. That is to say, Each machine will most likely run anything you throw at it, but neither will run anything modern with any alacrity.

Oh, and in case you're talking about those $500 complete systems that Gateway or Dell seem to offer every week as an "awesome deal." Good luck finding an AGP slot in those machines to put that $200 graphics card- you'll probably be stuck with PCI, as the AGP bus is used for their awesome Intel Integrated Extreme Graphics. And good luck pumping any speed out of the Celerons those machines come with- even at 2.6 GHz, they're still a joke to the entire PC community.

<hr />



No no no, you're missing the point. Those deals SUCK. That $500 machine isn't no where near as good as the iMac, but it will OWN the iMac in gaming.

My point was, a $500 machine with a good graphics card is AWESOME for gaming. Some of the others in this thread said that if you want to play games you should get a PowerMac (ridiculous- the second processor is useless in games, and while its nice for professionals, paying over $2000 just to get a system that ALLOWS you to upgrade the graphics card is silly). My point was, if Apple let you stick a good graphics card on the iMac (a $1200) it would ALSO own in gaming- you don't need a $2500 PC with a good graphics card to play the latest games, so why would you need a $2500 Mac? If you put a good graphics card on the iMac, it'd be a perfect gaming machine. They just need to give that option. They'd suddenly have a much bigger market for that iMac.
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Click to view Dubbalubagis's profile Member
Dubbalubagis
209 posts since
Jul 23, 2001
44. Sep 22, 2004 9:01 AM in response to: Praxis
Re: When will be available afordable PowerMacs?
Hi,

It is impossible for a $500 PC to "OWN" an iMac in gaming. Even if you put a fantastic graphics card in a $500 machine where is the money for the processor and RAM? I mean c'mon who are you trying to kid? The iMac is a consumer level machine there is no possible way they could keep the cost low and please everyone and still put a higher end graphics card in the machine. People complain about the price as is.

In reply to:<hr />
Some of the others in this thread said that if you want to play games you should get a PowerMac (ridiculous- the second processor is useless in games, and while its nice for professionals, paying over $2000 just to get a system that ALLOWS you to upgrade the graphics card is silly).

<hr />

No one said that the second processor is what makes the powermac good for gaming they just were saying that it is the only mac option for hard core gaming.

In any case your graphics card is only as good as your processor lets it be. So put it to rest already about the cheap PC gaming machines, they can't run high profile games either.

Dubbalubagis
Apple iBook G4 933MHz, 640MB, 40GB, Combo Drive, Mac OS X, 15GB iPod
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installation 05 halo action figures and actionclix
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