Macworld: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative ...

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105 Replies Last post: Apr 14, 2005 3:46 PM by mcd007 Go to original post 1 2 3 4 5 ... 8 Previous Next

cjmahony

17 posts since
Jan 21, 2005

30. Apr 4, 2005 9:28 AM

in response to: Jim Dalrymple

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite

In reply to:<hr />
I just deauthorized CS2 disconnected from the Internet and tried to launch GoLive. It came up with the activation screen and asked me to pick a way to activate.

Last night I was offline and using Photoshop and it worked fine, so it would seem that it's being done without contacting Adobe.

<hr />

When you activated GoLive, this activated the whole suite. So when you ran Photoshop, it had already been activated. You had made contact with Adobe for this activation.

The trouble with activation isn't the 30 seconds it takes when you activate the software, it the 30 seconds after you reformat your hard drive and remember that you didn't deactivate the software.

KARTman

1 posts since
Apr 4, 2005

31. Apr 4, 2005 9:29 AM

in response to: MW Forums

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite 2

I think Adobe's Activation plan sounds fair, and if the users would just take a little bit of time to understand how it works, it will be a great thing.
I have been supporting for Publishing for the past 15 years, and have dealt with all sorts of activation schemes. I have had to sometimes do hacks, cracks and pirates to get a piece of softwork working that we legitimately owned, just to get it work on a particular piece of hardware. I have always battled Quark licensing, particularly for my site of 50+ users. This was especially evident when Quark came out with Quark 6.X and Quark License Administrator(QLA). However, over the last year I have become a real fan of Quark and their activation schema, especially now that I understand it. Quark licensing seems like a real fair way to do things, and it gives me the flexibility of having Quark installed on more machines then users. This is real cost effective, because about 30% of my users are not full time Quark users, so I don't have to pay for full license for them. It also allows me to install Quark on my users home machines and laptops, so they can do work outside of the company, and not have to violate any licensing policies.
I hope that Adobe CS2 Activation will work on par with Quark scheme. I know that Quark's activation ties the activation code in with the Ethernet ID of the machine, so that you cannot easily move the license for that machine around, unless you are using something like QLA. I would like to know if Adobe's Activation also ties in the activation with the Ethernet ID of the machine. I need to upgrade my site license for PhotoShop and Illustrator, and I hope that this will now allow for the flexibility that Quark offers.

moose_n_squirrel

2,886 posts since
Sep 16, 2004

32. Apr 4, 2005 9:35 AM

in response to: salmonstk

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite 2

In reply to:<hr />
Does that mean my computer is checking in with Adobe everytime I run it?

<hr />

I don't think any company on Earth would want to take on that kid of burden, dumping money into huge server farms just to process millions of activations every day of the year. Plus it would mean that nobody could work offline, like on an airplane.

fribhey

708 posts since
May 21, 2004

33. Apr 4, 2005 10:00 AM

in response to: salmonstk

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite 2

In reply to:<hr />
For example when I deauth a computer but try to run the app still on that computer the article says it won't work. Does that mean my computer is checking in with Adobe everytime I run it?

<hr />

no i don't believe that's how it works. from my understanding is that it will work similar to Quark. this is how it is explained to me from Quark: when you initially activate the software there is an activation key generated which is associated with your serial number, this info is stored on your machine. when you deauthorize the software i believe that's when adobe checks in on your computer to remove the activation key.... and in order to run the software you need both the key and the serial number.

but that's what Quark told me, whether that's a load of BS or me not completely understanding her explanation because of her Indian accent is another thing.

fribhey

708 posts since
May 21, 2004

34. Apr 4, 2005 10:05 AM

in response to: Jim Dalrymple

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite

In reply to:<hr />
I just deauthorized CS2 disconnected from the Internet and tried to launch GoLive. It came up with the activation screen and asked me to pick a way to activate.

Last night I was offline and using Photoshop and it worked fine, so it would seem that it's being done without contacting Adobe.

<hr />

right because when you activate software an activation key is put into your prefs along with the serial number. when you deactivate the software that activation key is removed. the software won't run without both the serial number and activation key that is associated with that serial number.

Jim Dalrymple

228 posts since
Feb 16, 2004

35. Apr 4, 2005 10:18 AM

in response to: cjmahony

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite

In reply to:<hr />
The trouble with activation isn't the 30 seconds it takes when you activate the software, it the 30 seconds after you reformat your hard drive and remember that you didn't deactivate the software.

<hr />

Good point -- in that case you would have to call Adobe to deactivate. If you uninstall the software CS2 will prompt you to deactivate.

Jim

Nobody

58,347 posts since
Oct 18, 2007

36. Apr 4, 2005 10:43 AM

in response to: mcdawson

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite

I am in a similar boat. For various reasons I need to run different versions of OSX on different hard drives. I can see that anyone with unusual set-ups is going to suffer. They will have to convince the powers to be, who always seem to be difficult to reach, why they should manage their own machines the way they see fit.

I am also disturbed by the incongruous pricing structure based around Photoshop ownership. Whether you owned just PhotoShop or the entire suite of software you paid the same, very high cost of upgrading last time and I see no difference this time. MacroMedia screwed me one time too many with their "Suites" which was when I gave up on them.

How many people never use the unwanted programs in the suite but are forced to pay for them because the other options are worse?

The extra sting in the tail is that most users upgrade in (usually vain) hopes of specific bug fixes and to not be locked out of opening other peoples' files.

Adobe has made the chain of programs necessary to open legacy files painful. Even if we can get away with it, it won't be long before we have another PageMaker on our hands and sticky notes everywhere reminding us in what sequence conversions must be done.

Unfortunately I think Adobe sees itself as getting the upper hand in its competition with Quark. Won't be long and Quark will be forgotten and then Adobe will be "enforcing existing software agreements" in a far less subtle manner.

----------

btw I am not defending piracy but where companies manage to implement strong protection on their software 4 things happen. The price goes through the roof, complacency sets in, customers drop off and eventually the product fails leaving a very bitter taste in everyone's mouths.

Having to run software on legacy machines that require dongles, I certainly will not recommend them as a solution. They add a whole new level of failure and inflexibility to production. I've spent a whole day trying to resolve a last minute failure to print which I tracked down to the dongle. Like most things in the computer industry they are badly labelled, and an imperceptible hardware (bent pin) or software failure can have catastrophic results.

Will Adobe be giving clear instructions how to backup the crucial activation file or will users be left to hang out to dry when things inevitably go wrong?

pawliger

3 posts since
Apr 4, 2005

37. Apr 4, 2005 11:27 AM

in response to: MW Forums

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite 2

For more information straight from the source, please visit http://www.adobe.com/activation There is a FAQ, as well as details on many of the questions asked here, including answers to "What happens if my machine or hard drive crashes/is stolen and I need to reinstall?", "What happens if I format my disk?", "What if I have many machines to administer (I am part of the Volume License Plan)?", and "Does activated software contact Adobe every time it's used?"

Note the activation now being used in all CS2 versions of products on all platforms is identical in functionality to the activation that was used in Photoshop CS on Windows for the past year and a half.

altivec

31 posts since
Apr 4, 2005

38. Apr 4, 2005 11:50 AM

in response to: adobephile

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite

In reply to:<hr />
First of all, piracy is a phenomenon which, like it or not, does affect us all in one way or another. The "hassle" of more explicit security measures is not as large an effect as that of a company such as Adobe simply closing its doors, not wanting the "hassle" of its products being stolen.

<hr />

Nobody is saying that piracy is good. Activation only punishes the honest. Quark, Microsoft and Macromedia have activation and there software is still getting pirated. If I wasn't honest, I wouldn't be complaining, I would just download the activation workaround patch and make my thousand copies.

In reply to:<hr />
And you're complaining already about something you haven't even seen. The activation process is simple and really no hinderance if you want to install Adobe apps on more than two machines. You click "transfer" on one machine and get a prompt acknowledgment. Then you go to the other machine and click "activate", and it's done.

<hr />

I am not denying the fact that it may be simple to activate, however, what if your hard drive crashes or your computer dies. You say simple. just call in long distance, spend 10 minutes on hold (being generous with hold time), get the third degree answering a billion questions and hopefully you get your machine deactivated. That's fine and dandy if all you own is Adobe's Suite. If this is allowed to become the norm, soon even simple things such as your photoshop filters will have activation. How in the world do you expect to deal with a failure. Everyone will have a slightly different procedure and different levels of support. I would need to set up a database to organize this. It would take me literally months to get back to normal. To say this is ok, is absolutely ridiculous, considering this doesn't even solve the problem they are trying to fix.

So these are the facts:
Pirating will continue as pirates always find a way
Honest users are punished
Adobe increases prices (this should be going down if they believe they are actually cutting piracy)

I will guarantee you that Adobe sales will go down and not up like they are thinking. So far every company that has introduced activation has seen their sales tank. Adobe will be no exception. I will not budge from my stance. I will not upgrade any software that has activation. I own Office 2001, Quark 5.1, and the last Macromedia Studio with out activation and so far my life still seems to go on. In fact my software budget keeps getting bigger because they refuse to take my money.

I never thought in a million years that I would be looking at photoshop alternatives such as GIMP but when I get a chance, that will be the first thing I do. Apple if your listening, I've got a lot of money saved up for a photoshop killer.

mdawson

3,067 posts since
Aug 31, 2004

39. Apr 4, 2005 11:51 AM

in response to: MW Forums

Adobe releases Creative Suite 1984

While Adobe, or any software developer has the right to protect the sales of their merchandise, they do not have the right to punish honest customers to do so. The entire software activation scheme is such an Orwellian Microsoftism in it application that it is reminiscent of a police state mentality. When I buy music or movies, I do not have to activate themnot that the RIAA and MPAA would not like to try such a tactic, but their closest attempt, DivX, failed miserablyso when I buy software the same should apply.

As has already been mentioned here, this will create logistical nightmare in corporate and lab settings where multiple machines are managed and several software packages are installed. In any given academic computer lab, a single machine can have dozens of applications installed to meet the computing needs of a very diverse user base. As for the personal user, especially on the Windows side, this can also be a nightmare. Every time someone needs to re-install software for whatever reason, they have to deactivate the old copy and activate it again. This is punishing the customer pure and simple.

Also, as was mentioned here, this gives far too much control to the software developer in terms of upgrades. I know several people that have very old versions of certain software packages for various reasons. The underlying logic is often that what they have fits their needs. While they may not upgrade their software often, some do regularly upgrade their computers. What happens when developer A decides to not permit activation because the user is trying to activate an older version of software that the company no longer supports? No developer has the right to tell me that I can no longer use software that I have legitimately purchased. Can you imagine what kind of world we would be living in if car manufactures could force people to purchase new cars every few years or if components of your home audio system were essentially designed to fail after a set period of time?

What Adobe, Macromedia, Microsoft and all other companies are doing with this activation scheme goes beyond being unethical. When I buy food I do not have to call General Mills to get permission to eat it. When I buy a car, I do not have to call Saturn to get permission to drive it. When I buy a television, I do not have to call Sony to get permission to watch it. When I buy clothes, I do not have to call Eddie Bauer to get permission to where them. Once something is purchased, the manufacturer is out of the loop excepting customer support issues. This tactic is wrong no matter how you try to look at it.

“Cannot run out of time. There is infinite time. You are finite. Zathras is finite. This is wrong tool.” 2.3GHz Power Mac G5/4GB/500GB HDD/OS X 10.4.11/30-inch ACD, 60GB iPod (Color)

melgross

237 posts since
Sep 9, 2004

40. Apr 4, 2005 12:05 PM

in response to: MW Forums

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite 2

It is a joke when people threaten to never buy Adobe's products again because of this.

Either you guys have NEVER bought the products in the first place, or you are just smoken'.
There is no comparable product out there, and it's highly unlikely that there will be.

As for GIMP, that's a laugh! I have GIMP installed as well. Sure for basic things it can be used. If you really want to spend several times as much effort, more complex work can be accomplished as well. But I would NEVER consider using it for more than experimentation. It's clumsy, incomplete, and doesn't fit into a modern publishing workflow. It will never be a competitor. Why do you think that Linux users consider Photoshop to be one of the most important apps? Ditto for InDesign and Illustrator.

I admit that activation is annoying. I'm not happy about it either. but we are going to have to live with it.

My audio and 3D programs have always used either activation or dongles. If you think that a dongle is better, think again. Even my calibration tools use a dongle.

I've always had to buy several copies of Photoshop, etc. for my shop. The reason, for those who obviously don't know, is that you can't run more than one copy at the same time over a network if it has the same serial number. This is nothing new. It's been in place for quite some time. So there is no difference there. Most shops will need the same number of licenses they needed before.

My wife is an attorney for CitiGroup, and has dealt with Adobe a number of times over the years. She tells me that they are the easiest software company to do business with, that they understand the needs of their customers. I would imagine that they will work something out on that high level, if they haven't already.

This is the way of the future. It's too bad, but that's the way it is.

mdawson

3,067 posts since
Aug 31, 2004

41. Apr 4, 2005 12:11 PM

in response to: altivec

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite

In reply to:<hr />
I am not denying the fact that it may be simple to activate, however, what if your hard drive crashes or your computer dies. You say simple. just call in long distance, spend 10 minutes on hold (being generous with hold time), get the third degree answering a billion questions and hopefully you get your machine deactivated. That's fine and dandy if all you own is Adobe's Suite. If this is allowed to become the norm, soon even simple things such as your photoshop filters will have activation. How in the world do you expect to deal with a failure. Everyone will have a slightly different procedure and different levels of support. I would need to set up a database to organize this. It would take me literally months to get back to normal. To say this is ok, is absolutely ridiculous, considering this doesn't even solve the problem they are trying to fix.

<hr />

You hit the nail on the head my friend. If this had become the norm before I bought my Cube and the software I now have on it this would mean that when I am finally in a position to upgrade in the next six months to a year, I would have to deactivate and re-activate:

Microsoft Office:mac
Vectorworks
Adobe Acrobat
Macromedia Web Studio
Micromat TechTool Pro
Canvas Pro
Alien Skin Eye Candy
GraphicConverter

and a number of other little apps that are on my Mac that I cannot recall right now. The task of re-installing software is daunting enough, particularly for those of us that run several packages, without adding activation/deactivation to the process. This is especially true for someone like me for whom the next Mac purchase also means finally moving from Mac OS 9 to OS X and replacing all of my apps with OS X versions.

Also think of this. With the Mac mini making the cost of switching financially less burdensome for those people that are fed up with all of Windows failings, imagine if they had to activate all of the software that they installed on their new Macs. While this would not be Apples fault, the simple fact that they had to go through such an ordeal will leave a bad taste in their mouths. After all, the whole point of switching to a Mac is to escape all of the hassles associated with using a Windows-based machine.

“Cannot run out of time. There is infinite time. You are finite. Zathras is finite. This is wrong tool.” 2.3GHz Power Mac G5/4GB/500GB HDD/OS X 10.4.11/30-inch ACD, 60GB iPod (Color)

Steve_S

1,100 posts since
Sep 9, 2004

42. Apr 4, 2005 12:21 PM

in response to: adobephile

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite

In reply to:<hr />
Your irritation is based on false assumptions, and on misunderstandings of what was said in the article, of Alec's, and of my prior statements.

<hr />

Okay, perhaps you can enlighten me.

In reply to:<hr />
First of all, piracy is a phenomenon which, like it or not, does affect us all in one way or another.

<hr />

Agreed. As a software developer / IT Manager, I fully understand this.

In reply to:<hr />
The "hassle" of more explicit security measures is not as large an effect as that of a company such as Adobe simply closing its doors, not wanting the "hassle" of its products being stolen.

<hr />

Sorry, but I disagree here. For starters, product activation and having an honest user base are not mutually exclusive concepts. A simple web search illustrates how to bypass the activation (at least on the PC as this is new on the Mac product). Likewise, if someone wants to be dishonest, they still can. You're delusional if you think such measures equate to the end of piracy. So then, that leads us to who does it "hassle"? Honest customers. Legitimate reasons against this activiation have already been stated. I particularly liked the example linked above whereby the activiation won't allow people to install on a RAID setup. Nice...

In reply to:<hr />
And you're complaining already about something you haven't even seen.

<hr />

Actually, I've seen it on the PC version of CS. So, you're speaking a bit too soon...

In reply to:<hr />
The activation process is simple and really no hinderance if you want to install Adobe apps on more than two machines. You click "transfer" on one machine and get a prompt acknowledgment. Then you go to the other machine and click "activate", and it's done.

<hr />

Right, and if I have 3 machines, I can now only use 2, even if I am the only user and only 1 machine is being used at a time. Is the assumption that I will now purchase an additional copy of the suite? Not hardly. If anything, it's going to be one less purchase Adobe would have received.

In reply to:<hr />
No one's twisting your arm to upgrade, either. But you can at least download the trial versions to see what's there before you start bad-mouthing the products. That would be the reasonable thing to do.

<hr />

The reasonable thing to do would be to understand what the topic is about before you pipe in. With a username like "adobephile", it's not surprising how defense you become about anything controversial regarding Adobe. However, let's be clear, I'm not trashing the product in any functional way. I too am a fan of most Adobe products, particularly the CS Suite. That doesn't mean I have to be happy about Adobe's decision to make life more difficult for it's honest customer base. Try taking your blinders off for a second, you might be surprised by what you see.

Steve

cjmahony

17 posts since
Jan 21, 2005

43. Apr 4, 2005 12:31 PM

in response to: melgross

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite 2

In reply to:<hr />
What Adobe, Macromedia, Microsoft and all other companies are doing with this activation scheme goes beyond being unethical. When I buy food I do not have to call General Mills to get permission to eat it. When I buy a car, I do not have to call Saturn to get permission to drive it. When I buy a television, I do not have to call Sony to get permission to watch it. When I buy clothes, I do not have to call Eddie Bauer to get permission to where them. Once something is purchased, the manufacturer is out of the loop excepting customer support issues. This tactic is wrong no matter how you try to look at it.

<hr />

When Saturn produces an improved engine, do they stop by and upgrade yours? I haven't noticed Sony stop by and upgrade my old CRT based TV to a flat panel plasma screen? And when you put on twenty pounds does Eddie toss you a new pair of jeans or how about that Rolex you picked up on the street corner? All of these companies are dealing with physical products that you can't take home and crank out all the copies that you want.

There is nothing unethical about how adobe chooses to protect their software from piracy. Given the choice between activation and dongles, I would prefer activation.

mdawson

3,067 posts since
Aug 31, 2004

44. Apr 4, 2005 12:33 PM

in response to: melgross

Re: Adobe initiates Activation for Creative Suite

In reply to:<hr />
I admit that activation is annoying. I'm not happy about it either. but we are going to have to live with it.

This is the way of the future. It's too bad, but that's the way it is.

<hr />

I would love to know where this rule is that some people live by that dictates that consumers have to just lay down and take whatever corporations opt to shove up their *$$? Consumers do not have to comply with business practices that treat them like criminals from the outset and one of the major problems with our society right now is that we all too often allow this to happen. This is akin to compulsory drug testing that many companies employ when hiring new employees. Unless an employee displays behavior that implies that they may be under the influence of drugs, there is no legitimate reason for companies to be pre-screening employees in such an insulting manner. The only area where I would see such a practice as being even remotely acceptable is in jobs where the risk potential is very high (e.g. truck drivers, heavy equipment operators, etc.).

Consumers do have a voice and the DivX fiasco a decade ago is proof positive of the fact that consumers speak with their wallets. More recently, Quark has had to rethink the manner in which it abused its position as the only choice for pre-press professionals. Again the consumer spoke buy choosing InDesign. If large numbers of people stop buying software because of product activation schemes, then companies like Adobe will have to rethink their strategy. Unfortunately, far too many people today have the same I just have to deal with it mentality that you purport.

“Cannot run out of time. There is infinite time. You are finite. Zathras is finite. This is wrong tool.” 2.3GHz Power Mac G5/4GB/500GB HDD/OS X 10.4.11/30-inch ACD, 60GB iPod (Color)

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