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18 Replies Last post: Apr 22, 2005 7:12 PM by Philbert   Go to original post 1 2 Previous Next
Click to view Polly's profile New Member 26 posts since
Aug 31, 2004
15. Apr 21, 2005 1:19 PM in response to: chrtien
Re: Nikon intros D50, D70s Digital SLR cameras
Hey no fair! I go shopping in my 911 everyday! And I also think the D70 is a hell of a body. You know it also gets to the question of how dumb the user is expected to be. Once we decide on a piece of equipment perhaps it might be a good idea to learn its ins & outs thoroughly before blasting it for things that it can't do easily. Hey guys remember when we were actually expected to know what f11 at 1/250 actually meant & that round thing on the lens - what's it called, the focusing ring - was used for. Maybe it's all becoming too damn "easy." Kind of like doing for photography what's been done for music. Everybody's not only a composer but a photographer too.
Click to view pcharles's profile Member 348 posts since
Feb 23, 2004
16. Apr 21, 2005 2:06 PM in response to: SPOOF
Re: Nikon intros D50, D70s Digital SLR cameras
I agree, Megapixels are not everything and we have to look closer at the lines. It is not clear to me what market the D50 is really aiming at with a $900 price tag, when the D70 is only marginally more expensive. The problem Nikon have is that they do not produce their own sensors. This gives Canon a real edge on innovation.

The Canon line is very mature, the Original Digital Rebel is still available at around $700, the Rebel XT at around $900, and the 20D at around $1200. This is followed by a series of more expenive models upto the value of a small car! Nikon's line is limited to two VERY similar prosumer units followed by two strange professional systems. One is 4MP designed for ultra high speed shooting, and one is 12MP. The great thing about buying a Canon, as I did a few weeks ago, is that I can start with the Rebel for $700 and then in a few years upgrade one or two steps to the 20D (or its replacement) and then maybe an extra step to the 1D MKII and keep my lenses (unless I buy EF-S). With Nikon, the D50 to D70 upgrade does not provide you with much more camera and the next step chops 2MP off your resolution. So, for Nikon owners you go from a $1000 unit to a $5000 unit. They have to fix this if they want to compete with Canon.

In the meantime I suggest everyone checks out the new Panasonic LUMIX DMC-FZ5 with its 12X image stabilized lens. I just got mine for vacations and I am amazed at what it can do for under $500. I love this camera as much, if not more, than my EOS. Not least of which is because I can stuff it in my jacket pocket! If you are in the market, this is the camera of 2005.
Click to view chrtien's profile New Member 2 posts since
Apr 21, 2005
17. Apr 21, 2005 9:18 PM in response to: pcharles
Re: Nikon intros D50, D70s Digital SLR cameras
Yeah, the D50 would've had much more of an impact if it sold for about $800 instead.

I agree that Canon's lineup is mature but, if you look closely, so is Nikon's.

For the asking price, the D70 is a really sweet camera. It's definitely not a pro camera, but at least it handles like one (the Rebel XT handles more like a prosumer digicam).

The D70 certainly can't claim to be better than a 20D but, considering its lower price, comes pretty close. The D50 doesn't cost much less than a D70, but it isn't much less of a camera either - it retains all of the D70's more important features while leaving out stuff like the commander mode for external Speedlights (features which beginners aren't likely to use). To me, Nikon always produces the best camera they can for a given budget.

The problem with Canon is that they're always afraid that their lower-end DSLRs would compete with their higher-end ones. It makes marketing sense, but isn't good for the consumer. The Rebel/300D was a dumbed-down 10D while the Rebel XT/350D is way too small for most people and handles poorly - much worse than a 20D. For me, the Canon DSLR range only really gets serious with the 20D, while the Nikon D50 is already a good-handling feature-packed DSLR. I'm sure you'll disagree, it really does seem as if Canon intentionally cripples their lower-end DSLRs - something that Nikon never does.

The Nikon D2H is a very specialised tool (for those who don't know, it actually uses a Nikon-made LBCAST JFET sensor). It's designed for photojournalists / sports photographers who need speed above everything else. The 4-megapixels will not be enough for your best friend's wedding, but it's more than enough for a front page newspaper article. Plus, it's a lot easier to deal with large numbers of 4-MP pictures (smaller file sizes) compared to 8- or 12-MP ones. The D2H was designed for this sort of workflow and does it very well. If you need the extra megapixels, you can opt for a D2X instead.

As far as lenses are concerned, all Nikon F-mount lenses are built to a standard (except for the current 70-300G and ED lens, which is rubbish). Plus, my D70 will still work with older Nikkors from the 1980's, while my collection of FD lenses (used with older film SLRs like the AE-1) can't work with my 300D.

Then, there's also the issue of digital lenses. At least Nikon has made up its mind and stuck to the DX format for all its DSLRs - with standardised sensors and lens mounts.

Canon DSLRs come with sensors of all sorts of sizes, the EF-S lens you bought for your 20D (or its successor) will never work with your 1Ds Mk II.

Perhaps the only missing link in the Nikon DSLR lineup is a replacement for the outdated D100.
Click to view Philbert's profile Old Hand 2,366 posts since
Jun 11, 2001
18. Apr 22, 2005 7:12 PM in response to: chrtien
Re: Nikon intros D50, D70s Digital SLR cameras
chrtien -

No need to take it personally, I'm not out to bash Nikon. I'm also not simply regurgitating something "I've read", or relaying something a "colleague told me" --- I'm expressing my real world experience. The D70 is a fine camera for the price, EXCEPT when it comes to noise levels.

In reply to:<hr />
True, the D70 has more noise at higher ISOs .... And if it really did matter to you ... you'd probably do some post-processing of your own (either with Adobe Camera RAW's noise reduction, Noise Ninja or something else).

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I "post-process" ALL digital images that I deem worth keeping or those that leaves my possession. And as a pro photog, that means pretty much everything I shoot. The last thing I have time for, is an increased workflow because of a flawed tool. Again, I'm only basing this on comparative experience with my (admittedly humble), 3-yr old EOS D60 - with it, I don't have to jump through those hoops.

Another problem I've discovered with the D70 is that exposure evaluation with the LCD is fairly worthless - the LCD image doesn't even come close to the image on a calibrated monitor. In my estimation, it's about 1 to a stop and a half under - even with the LCD brightness on the lowest setting. I have to tweak my D60 images as well, but nothing to the extreme of the D70. (can't Nikon come up with their own naming convention? --- that was a joke.) And what the hell is the deal with the image counter? Why does it show fewer images than what's actually possible?

In reply to:<hr />
I have to disagree with you about the lens. True, the 18-70 DX lens ...

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You can make allowances for the lens - "it's cheap", "it's light", yada-yada-yada ... but in terms of image (and build), quality, it's crap. (Again, that's based on my actual experience - not a "bias".) Please don't be offended by that. If I was I Nikon shooter, I'd still call it crap. Nikon's better lenses are no more lighter or cheaper than Canon's. And yes, I AM willing to lug around those big 'n nasty L lenses because they provide the best quality. I've never once been hired because my equipment is convenient for me ....

In reply to:<hr />
Well, you can't really go shopping in a Porsche either, can you?

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I wouldn't know - I drive a '96 GMC pickup!


In reply to:<hr />
nemaworm -
Another point, I tryed to get a nice looking picture from costco and sam's club the other day and the color/quality was just horrible.

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I've received EXCELLENT prints from Costco, although it took a bit of educating the operators who run the printer. The Fuji and Noritsu printers that are found in Costco, Sam's Club and Walgreen are VERY GOOD - it's just the operators who don't know what they're doing. Check out http://www.drycreekphoto.com/ for more info. They even have profiles that help you get dynamite prints - at 20 cents a pop!